[Closed] Warning!! old school moan about the Olympic Xc

Shhh grandad....We're watching tv.

Too many trail centres focused on downhill and the British ethos of "taking part" rather than "winning"

the British ethos of "taking part" rather than "winning"

As demonstrated by our hopeless track and road riders, eh?

I suspect that the obvious "risks and glamour" of DH make it much more appealing to the average teenager than XC racing?

Unless the the kids currently racing have got parents with very deep pockets and BC get a proper structure then it's not going to happen. Too easy to build a velodrome and concentrate cycling in one area.
Just have a look at the mtb "race" scene and see where the races are concentrated.
Eg if you live in the north of England or SW Scotland the travelling alone puts people off. I know quite a few good young riders who could maybe go on the become serious competitors but the cost is just so prohibitive.

All our young talent disappear into the woods and build jumps and generally be well rad and gnarly while scoffing at anyone in lycra perhaps??

Actually a lot of the riders you mention came through 'cross or the road scene bringing a lot of fitness with them. Now it seems the xc race scene is a little weaker - not as many true xc races, lots more niches and endurance events which are a little like sportives really.

Actually responding to the above post, the lack of racing really does not help. I would not want to travel 2 or 3 hours to events every week or two, and I am sure most parents are the same. When I last looked, if I just wanted to compete for 'fun' I would only have a two or three races nearby all year. Hardly enough to make it worthwhile to train for.

It's very clear from the multitude of posts in the past that STWers don't like class XC'ers.
Elite XC racers should be handicapped so fat old biffers can compete equally, that or the circuits should be soooo technical it slows down the racing.
But there we go, we seem to want Warner commentating instead of recognized Olympic champions as it would be funnier! I think Mr Bean would be even funnier.

We don't have enough riders who ride UCI World Cup XC to get enough points to qualify for the Olympics. Ironically, of our two best XC riders, Oli Beckinsale earnt the UCI points which allowed Liam to ride....

Shhh grandad....We're watching tv.

😆

Got to admit the finish was old school... where's my slippers 😉

MTBing is very much the poor relation over here, which is very sad indeed.

After yesterday's race though, Annie Last is certainly one to watch in the future so it's not all doom and gloom.

Trekster, You don't have to race at a young age though. You just need to work hard at your riding and prepare your young body for racing as you get older. You could hone your skills off road and find your fitness elsewhere. It's no easier for kids wanting to race road.

Id stick my neck out and say it's attitude. Whilst my and other clubs actively promote racing and do their best for them, the mountainbike fraternity label their racers as jey.

That said the scene was buzzing at my last XC race on Friday just gone.

Back in the 90s there were loads of xc races which were hard even at sport level .Then mtbing seem to become mucking about in the woods on jumps or belting downhills .Organizers realized people wanted to do this more and put those sorts of events on which dont require aerobic fitness capacities of xc racing (I know they do at elite level )So we need more xc races and we drag some fit junior road and cross racers and turn them into xcountry racers

I was thinking just the same.
I've always loved XC racing since the Gould / Baker Peugeot days, (I don't compete anymore, but I'd credit Tim Gould & David Baker with inspiring me to race back in the '90s) and much prefer watching it to DH events. The Olympic XC race was fantastic. 😀
It's a real shame we have no depth of talent in the UK these days and haven't had for years. 😥 There are a few promising youngsters, but very often they don't last long after making the transition to the adult classes.
Not sure why we don't take XC as seriously as other countries, but there does seem to be a bit of a slacker attitude in MTBing here.

From my understanding of it, All our top youngsters go through the British cycling system, this is set up to encourage riders from all backgrounds to road cycling. Annie last is an exception as she has a background in pure mountain biking and thinks of herself as a mountain biker, rather than it being a step on the road, to the road.

Back in days of the Bakers and Goulds, British cycling didn't have the same structure, organisation and ethos that it now has.

It's because MTB has become the equivalent of pony trekking by bike (copyright TJ...), where relatively well off, relatively unfit, relatively middle aged chaps go out for a hour or two and think that they are sportsmen. Add in magazines which are little more than catalogues and a bike industry that has realised that they can sell aspirational equipment to weekend warriors simply by changing colours and you have a situation where the commitment and dedication needed for elite level XC is just too much for most.

If you're young and talented then you get scouted by British cycling.Who then feed you straight into the road/track program and you get masses of support.If you're not quite good enough for that ,they let you go back to mtb'ing and give you a jersey.

[quote=crikey ]It's because MTB has become the equivalent of pony trekking by bike (copyright TJ...), where relatively well off, relatively unfit, relatively middle aged chaps go out for a hour or two and think that they are sportsmen. Add in magazines which are little more than catalogues and a bike industry that has realised that they can sell aspirational equipment to weekend warriors simply by changing colours and you have a situation where the commitment and dedication needed for elite level XC is just too much for most.
None of the above is unique to the UK.

[i]None of the above is unique to the UK.[/i]

No, that's true. Add in our natural aversion to cycling, only lately and partially reversed by Wiggins et al, the dominance of the beautiful game 🙄 and our lack of interest in anything we can't immediately win at too.

From my understanding of it, All our top youngsters go through the British cycling system, this is set up to encourage riders from all backgrounds to road cycling. Annie last is an exception as she has a background in pure mountain biking and thinks of herself as a mountain biker, rather than it being a step on the road, to the road.

Back in days of the Bakers and Goulds, British cycling didn't have the same structure, organisation and ethos that it now has.

British Cycling seems intent on producing Track riders above all else, some then migrate to where the money is, ie road. To be honest no one in their right mind would choose to race XC in the UK as a paying job when Road offers so much more.

I wonder what the Swiss system is, 4 of the top 10 riders ( by world rankings) are swiss,

Back in the day Gould and Baker crossed over from cross and road, a time with no structure and a huge reliance on luck.

In my opinion what XC racing needs is more races at a purely local level, how many people are going to drive for a couple of hours unless your good? What is also needs and not sure how to achieve this is less lazy riders. The idea of buying fitness and skill doesn't work, you get better by riding, not very popular as an idea though!

None of the above is unique to the UK.

No, but it seems far more of a UK thing than a Swiss/Czech/etc thing.

That's not exactly true. At real grass roots level they focus on off road riding as it's accessible, safe and easier to monitor.
Now there are great pure off road clubs up and down the country, but there are far more road ones. So it's likely that they'll be drawn to those.
Also there seems to be an anti club issue with MTBers? and that's never going to help.
I'm chairman of my road club, and right now I'm in talks with coucils, landowners and other clubs about taking on XC racing so we can attract more and younger riders. And that's the difference, clubs try and make a difference rather than expect someone else to do it.

All the 'right' kids are riding road bikes. Road club's tend not to cross over to mountain biking, so the kids don't get introduced to MTB. They're also a lot more likely to stick with road biking than cross over because the rewards available are greater, as said above, but also because for most it means going from a decent training setup with a group of riders riding a few times a week for fitness, to riding on your own through the woods.

We'd benefit massively from having a proper club structure in the sport, with good mountain bikers training together regularly with the goal of getting fitter and racing together.

At the moment what clubs there are are mostly about having fun with other people, not competitive riding and personal improvement. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it doesn't help to produce young and fast xc racers.

No idea how you change that though. I suspect the first step would be to get British Cycling on the case, though they have run an MTB race series in Manchester the last few years that could be considered a start.

Oldgit knows the score.

crikey - Member
It's because MTB has become the equivalent of pony trekking by bike (copyright TJ...), where relatively well off, relatively unfit, relatively middle aged chaps go out for a hour or two and think that they are sportsmen.

Add in magazines which are little more than catalogues and a bike industry that has realised that they can sell aspirational equipment to weekend warriors simply by changing colours and you have a situation where the commitment and dedication needed for elite level XC is just too much for most.

Publicity for the xc racing scene is minimal, most magazines focus on advertorial content. Cycling is the new golf for some, for others its about getting out with mates but the pinnacle should be the racing scene. Sadly the reverse seems to be true.

I think the problem goes farther back than we think. Sports is still not seen as a viable career path by the kind of parents who have the money and the time and the attitude to make it work for their kids, in a convenient nutshell, the middle classes.

Track cycling provided a controlled and controllable outlet, bit like after school classes or extra tuition, and the development of a cycling base in Manchester has shown it can be done.

The problem is now, and has been ever since the Velodrome in Manchester was built, is that other less controllable forms of cycle sport don't get the same attention as track cycling. It has become self fulfilling; spend money on the track, get success, spend money on the track, get success.

Road racing in the UK got ignored and pretty much stiffed by the track cycling programme, leading to racers like David Millar, Roger Hammond, and so on going abroad and making it on their own. Wiggins and Cavendish are perhaps the best products of BC, but how many budding racers, both XC and road have we lost because they didn't do well on the track circuit?

The challenge for BC is now to concentrate on developing talent in forms of cycling other than track; we've shown that we can win track medals, how about doing it elsewhere?

If you're young and talented then you get scouted by British cycling.Who then feed you straight into the road/track program and you get masses of support.If you're not quite good enough for that ,they let you go back to mtb'ing and give you a jersey.

I'd like to call you a cynical git, and say that doesn't happen at all... But knowing a couple of young talented MTBer's as I do, that love the sport, they have constant temptation thrust in their faces to ditch mountain biking and get on the drops...

Mountain Biking in the UK has become a victim of its own success. It is far more popular these days than it has ever been (despite many forum nay Sayers), but it is the demographic that dictates the direction of the sport. When the average age of riders is probably late 30's or early 40's, and they're all relatively recent to the sport but do it for enjoyment and to get away a bit at the weekend and not to compete as such. And the industry has adapted to this, and thus raw MTB competition at least in short XC races isn't what it used to be. It's great there's loads of us out there on bikes each weekend, having fun but not taking it particularly seriously, but there needs to be a flip side where youngsters are encouraged into the sport, and a competitive (and accessible) element remains.

It's like comparing a guy who owns a classic MG that leaves the garage once a month only if it's sunny, to drive round the block before it gets polished again, and a guy who races a single seat car on track, most weekends, struggling to get sponsorship to pay for it etc. They're both car enthusiasts, but at very opposite ends of the scale, and their interests have no crossovers whatsoever other than they're both 4 wheeled.

Oh, and I can assure the OP he needs to take his rose tinted specs off. Fast as Baker, Gould etc. were (and Nick Craig still is!), Liam Killeen et al in the race today are another step above...

If BC committed to a mountain bike programme now, searching out the best 15-16-17-18 year olds, preferably females (because the gap between the best and the worst and the numbers of each are lower in womens XC), we could be looking at medals in Rio.

But the lack of a definite outcome will mean that the track squad will soak up more and more of the cash.

As others have said there just aren't enough races, especially in the north. I used to race cross and there's a great league where you can race approx 10 times over the winter that had some top riders in plus fat overweight mugs like me. I looked for a couple of MTb races to train for and there's noting. I can join th cross league again, track league at Manchester or any number of road races, but xc ? No chance

I looked for a couple of MTb races to train for and there's noting. I can join th cross league again, track league at Manchester or any number of road races, but xc ? No chance

Really? I thought there were a reasonable number of xc races in the NW area. Brownbacks at Lee Quarry, those Midweek MTB Madness races, sure I've seen some more advertised as well.

Road clubs doing MTB. Nooooooooooooooooooo.

Mixed, e.g. Team MK, is the way forward.

Good old Team MK 😀

Last time I looked on th bc website Simon there was one race between July and the end of the year, lee quarry I think,

Last time I looked on th bc website Simon there was one race between July and the end of the year, lee quarry I think,

MTB XC racing is a Summer sport. The last round of the MTB Midweek Madness series was last Thursday at Boggart Hole Clough. It's very nearly time for Cyclocross season now 🙂

Ha, thanks, I'll go back to cross then.

There ends my first xc season 🙂

Not read all the above but I'd say its down to lack of races for youngsters.

My daughter is 8 and races road. She's done a few go-ride mtb races and loved it so I looked into finding some others to do - I looked within a 60 mile radius of Milton Keynes and nothing until she is 12 and thats only one 10 round series.

Within the same radius we could race road every week.

No shortage of talent in DH though! If you are young, skilled and competitive on a mountain bike would you prefer to race DH or race around a field for a couple of hours? When I raced XC there initially wasn't anything else, but more than once I quit a race due to it being so damn boring! As already mentioned, riding XC is a 'sport' for middle aged people.
Oldgit raises a good point re. clubs though for the people who do want to race. When it was literally all fields, the Mid Shropshire Wheelers created an MTB division of their club and that partly helped some people on their way to success, Titley, Collins Boys etc. But again that was in DH!

As already mentioned, riding XC is a 'sport' for middle aged people.

It's all XC 😉

It's also worth mentioning BMX. BITD BMX was DEAD. The tracks were overgrown messes and the only kids who rode on them were like me, on mountain bikes. Now it's huge again so that's another avenue for young people with skills on a bike to go down. If you want to show off your fitness, ride road or track, and if you want to show off your skillz, ride DH or BMX? Not sure where that leaves XC.

I am my own example here, I stared riding last year at 17 now 18. XC just isn't cool, you have DH with massive tail whips and clothes from the likes of troy lee; all supported by awesome films like Follow Me, showing riders fearlessly shredding the gnar.

But XC involves riding up hills a then edging down them on the brakes, where is the fun in that? Plus lycra isn't cool.

But thanks to the BBC's great coverage and the organisers of the Olympic events, I was finally shown what XC is really about; speed pure speed all the time, the competitiveness, oh and Fontana is cool.

Mind you though I have always liked sprinting and the odd techy climb so...

What I am trying to say is that XC needs to have much more coverage, and some cool personalities in the sport to inspire the younger generation.

Although most of the younger generation will be inspired by the BMX instead 😕

Not sure where that leaves XC.

same as XC skiing, Speed Skating etc.

There will always be competitors, just it won't be brits for the large part. Too interested in looking the part and afterall who buys a bike to ride it. I thought the point was sit in the car park having a chat?

When XC was at it's pinnacle it was pretty much the only form of mountainbike riding around (or it certainly eclipsed other embryonic forms). Over the last 20ish years DH, Freeride, Dirt Jumping, AM have provided great progression and development in terms of the bikes we ride, the trails we ride and how me ride them (some of us anyway). XC, or XC racing at least has remained quite stagnant and has remained a competition largely about who is the fittest bike rider off road.

There's been no meaningful progression in terms of format and it has left the door open for enduro to replace it as a form of MTB racing that is more closely representative of how most people ride.

There's been no meaningful progression in terms of format and it has left the door open for enduro.

The format has changed a lot over the years.

As for Enduro, DH, and the like, difficult to sell the emperors new clothes when the rider matters more than the bike, all the talk about wheel sizes is in large part about trying to sell new bikes.

And yes at the top of all cycle sport it is the rider that matters, lower down you can buy skill through the bike, seen it too many times and it usually ends with someone in hospital when they found out how lacking in skill they really are.

the trails we ride and how me ride them (some of us anyway)

some of us, is the key point, the trails i see now and the trails i rode 20+ years ago are the same, the trail centres haven't really changed. Not much has actually changed, people just seem to think that you need the new bikes to cope, they may make it easier, they may make it faster, but you don't need them, which if you look at what some of the XC courses are like should be obvious.

But XC involves riding up hills a then edging down them on the brakes

Try letting go of the brakes.

[i]Over the last 20ish years DH, Freeride, Dirt Jumping, AM have provided great progression and development in terms of the bikes we ride, the trails we ride and how me ride them (some of us anyway).[/i]

More like over the last 10 years or so, DH, Freeride, Dirt Jumping, AM have been a way to sell ever bigger and crucially more expensive bikes to those with ever more disposable income on the back of a tame media who will flog whatever bike is advertised with the largest budget, and equally crucially, have all become yet more divisions in an already minority branch of an already minority sport.

And none of them are in the Olympics.

I'm not against AM, Freeride, Dirt Jumping and especially not against DH, and I agree that XC has stagnated, but it has stagnated because the 'Mountain Bike' market in the UK at least is middle aged, middle class men who play on bikes rather than do a sport.

chakaping - Member

the British ethos of "taking part" rather than "winning"

As demonstrated by our hopeless track and road riders, eh?

oh, sorry i thought the thread title said Olympic XC not track and road...oh, wait

ya dipstick 🙄

this however is the most positive thing i've heard on STW for a long time and from an 18yo!

But thanks to the BBC's great coverage and the organisers of the Olympic events, I was finally shown what XC is really about; speed pure speed all the time, the competitiveness, oh and Fontana is cool.

Not enough XC races because pottering around on long travel bikes is "cooler" than getting into lycra and winning stuff apparently, hence not enough demand for races (I seem to remember in another Olympic thread Sam Hill was touted as being "cooler" than Wiggins which is unfortunately probably right, not to diminish Sam's achievements which are impressive but I know which one I'd be aspiring to be if I was a kid.) DH works because the easiest way to get to a good DH track is to enter a race.

Iain

More like over the last 10 years or so, DH, Freeride, Dirt Jumping, AM have been a way to sell ever bigger and crucially more expensive bikes to those with ever more disposable income on the back of a tame media who will flog whatever bike is advertised with the largest budget, and equally crucially, have all become yet more divisions in an already minority branch of an already minority sport.

That's one cynical and jaded way to spin it. The other way is to look at the bikes we have now are incredible machines. A current stumpjumper can be pedalled easily all day long and hammer a downhill track the next, and with conviction. And if you don't think that represents progression then you need to find some new places to ride.

And none of them are in the Olympics.

Thankfully.

I'm not against AM, Freeride, Dirt Jumping and especially not against DH, and I agree that XC has stagnated, but it has stagnated because the 'Mountain Bike' market in the UK at least is middle aged, middle class men who play on bikes rather than do a sport.

I can foresee a massive explosion in Enduro style racing (it's already happening) which will put the "sport" back into that middle ground and give a sharp focused competitive edge to that segment, and in so doing I think it will leave XC as an even more obscure and isolated off shoot. There will always be people who don't feel the need to compete though, and they should be allowed to live too.

Iain Gillam

Not enough XC races because pottering around on long travel bikes is "cooler" than getting into lycra and winning stuff apparently

I don't know how to express it but there is something very wrong with that statement.

That's one cynical and jaded way to spin it. The other way is to look at the bikes we have now are incredible machines. A current stumpjumper can be pedalled easily all day long and hammer a downhill track the next, and with conviction. And if you don't think that represents progression then you need to find some new places to ride.

No i have to agree with Crikey on this,

Wasn't it cannondale that tried to copyright Freeride, and Rockymountain came back with Froride.

As for the second part, i can remember seeing raleigh mustangs being raced with conviction and far more so than most of the current crop. It is the rider not the bike but from a marketing point of view that doesn't work. As for new places to ride? where? Olympus Mons? there are very few places where bikes haven't been taken and half the reason why conflict keeps on arising is creating new trails to try and push the new bikes.

I can foresee a massive explosion in Enduro style racing (it's already happening) which will put the "sport" back into that middle ground and give a sharp focused competitive edge to that segment, and in so doing I think it will leave XC as an even more obscure and isolated off shoot. There will always be people who don't feel the need to compete though, and they should be allowed to live too.

More likely MTB racing in the UK will disappear, far more riders are on the road than for a long time, road bikes outsell MTBs, making money out of MTB racing is incredibly hard, entry fees reflect this. Another summer like we have just had and i can see there being some serious issues with racing of all categories.

Something to think about, Cyclocross.

I know you think of me as a miserable roadie type, but I started racing in XC mountain biking, and love it still, 25 years on.

The problem with 'Enduro' style riding is the same as the trouble with 'Sportive' riding on the road; it's not actually racing.

At best it's Time trialling, which any true roadie will say with a raised eyebrow, at worst it's the equivalent of a fun run, where everyone gets a prize...

To raise the status of Mountain biking, we need to do it on a global scale which means doing well at the stuff the rest of the world already does, not trying to big up what we do here.

CBA to read all the above, but GB have some very good young riders coming up...

Wasn't it cannondale that tried to copyright Freeride, and Rockymountain came back with Froride.

I am pretty sure that was an April fools joke was it not?

As for the second part, i can remember seeing raleigh mustangs being raced with conviction and far more so than most of the current crop.

You take your Mustang, I'll take my Stumpy and we'll race down the Fortbill WC DH track. With conviction.

crikey
The problem with 'Enduro' style riding is the same as the trouble with 'Sportive' riding on the road; it's not actually racing.
At best it's Time trialling, which any true roadie will say with a raised eyebrow, at worst it's the equivalent of a fun run, where everyone gets a prize...

I think if you can beat Joe Barnes, and you'll have ample opportunity to try, then you are fully entitled to make that statement.

Even though I think your statement is totally wrong, sportives are still massively popular, and getting bigger all the time.

More likely MTB racing in the UK will disappear, far more riders are on the road than for a long time, road bikes outsell MTBs, making money out of MTB racing is incredibly hard, entry fees reflect this. Another summer like we have just had and i can see there being some serious issues with racing of all categories.

Except Enduro events which are often sold out...300+ entries per event, with many organisers in good health. Road will always out sell MTB because it crosses over to commuter/hybrid etc. Most buyers are now informed enough to know that an MTB is not a viable tool for commuting, and a flat bar road/road/touring/audax/cross bike is. But there will always be a market, a thriving market for mtb.

Thinking back to the early days, the parts of the courses that were both fun for the riders and competitors alike were the likes of the bombhole at Malvern Hills Challenge / Classic, the steep chute down to Snailbeach at Eastridge etc. Unfortunately (and why traditional XC will always suck) the races are always won on boring fireroad climbs. I'm pretty out of touch but if XC took on more of a cyclocross format (in terms of duration) and put more emphasis on cool trail features then it'd be way more desirable. Hell, you could ride a light rigid singlespeed with a shortish stem and risers, just power your way up the climbs as they'd only be a couple of minutes long but then have a decent handling bike for hitting jumps, drops, berms etc. I know it will never happen, as the XC mentality is all about going up fireroads quickly, or riding around a muddy field (STILL! after 25 years!! FFS!!!), but XC could be waaaaay more exciting.

..and not to depress you, but of the 5 or so guys I know who raced downhill, all 5 have quit because of cost and or injury and 4 of them are now riding road bikes.

I'm not against AM, Freeride, Dirt Jumping and especially not against DH, and I agree that XC has stagnated, but it has stagnated because the 'Mountain Bike' market in the UK at least is middle aged, middle class men who play on bikes rather than do a sport.

I am pretty sure that was an April fools joke was it not?

No serious,

You take your Mustang, I'll take my Stumpy and we'll race down the Fortbill WC DH track. With conviction.

put schurter on the mustang.

It is about the rider not the bike and that is how it should be.

as the XC mentality is all about going up fireroads quickly

You mean being FIT!!!!!

Shock horror a bike sport where fitness matters, well i never...

You mean being FIT!!!!!

Shock horror a bike sport where fitness matters, well i never...

Exactly, so why not just ride road?

[i]So what exactly should us middle aged men be doing with our spare time and money when we've hung up our football/rugby boots etc?
MTB trail riding offers exercise,thrills,spills, danger,tests your physical and mental limits,your bottle, gets you out in the wilds,up and down mountains ,understanding bikes,machinery,technology etc etc.It even gives you a forum to talk about this stuff too
If XC isn't attracting youngsters into the sport then that's hardly the fault of middle aged men falling off their bikes on Spooky Wood. [/i]

In brief, if there was a decent XC scene, you wouldn't be playing football.

[i] MTB trail riding offers exercise,thrills,spills, danger,tests your physical and mental limits,your bottle, gets you out in the wilds,up and down mountains ,understanding bikes,machinery,technology etc etc.[/i]

It offers a limited amount of exercise.
Danger? Give over, you're in more danger driving to the trail.
If messing about on an MTB tests your physical and mental limits, both are set quite low.
Gets you out in the wilds? What wilds? You ride on paths and trails that have either been there for hundreds of years or have been made especially for you.

I'm out.

put schurter on the mustang.

Well then we have a race.

It offers a limited amount of exercise.
Danger? Give over, you're in more danger driving to the trail.
If messing about on an MTB tests your physical and mental limits, both are set quite low.
Gets you out in the wilds? What wilds? You ride on paths and trails that have either been there for hundreds of years or have been made especially for you.

Try going out for 4-6 hours, racing all the climbs and really pinning all the descents, many of which are dh race tracks on a 120mm bike. It's your perception of what mountainbiking can be that appears to set quite low.

Exactly, so why not just ride road?

And why not off road.

or riding around a muddy field (STILL! after 25 years!! FFS!!!), but XC could be waaaaay more exciting.

Yes, and so could be marathon running.
If all the competitors were given machines guns and gained bonus point for each pigeon they shot on route, and had to fight a shark with a laser and then eat 20 dunkin doughnuts whilst break dancing.
Obviously it wouldn't be marathon running, but it would be waaaay more exciting.

Or to take XC to the other extreme, this is proper XC racing:

http://www.bcbikerace.com/

But oh nose it has technical features and the roots might break my 18lb carbon mincing machine!

Or to take XC to the other extreme, this is proper XC racing:

NO XC racing is clearly understood.

none of these are XC races.

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but each is far more interesting to me than enduro racing in the UK.

We seem to veering towards that argument we had ages ago.
Lets change the the whole UK XC scene so anyone can just pop along and do it. I can see the Golds pouring in.

And they talk about ignorant roadies, so if I want to race and keep fit I it's best if hand back my MTB to the men and mince off on my road bike.
Class.

NO XC racing is clearly understood.

And this is why it's dying. People just don't want to do it!

And this is why it's dying. People just don't want to do it!

some people do, some people don't

MTB events as a whole are down in the UK.

Yes, and so could be marathon running.
If all the competitors were given machines guns and gained bonus point for each pigeon they shot on route, and had to fight a shark with a laser and then eat 20 dunkin doughnuts whilst break dancing.
Obviously it wouldn't be marathon running, but it would be waaaay more exciting.

Marathon running is a few hundred years old is it not? Maybe a few thousand. I'm sure it's evolved somewhat in that time to what happened in London this morning. Just look at how the TDF has changed over the decades to what we see now. They didn't arrive fully formed. XC is still in it's infancy. There is still potential for progression. I really feel that whilst it should obviously necessitate massive fitness to win, bike handling should be as important. IE it should be a sport that someone with a high level of road fitness, but no off road skill should never be able to win or rank heavily.

Shouldering the bike and walking down technical features should never be a valid competitive option and racing round fields should never, ever be considered anything more than cyclocross.

Unfortunately, we're no longer in the position where the UK can dictate the rules of sports to the rest of the world. XC racing is what it is. As a country we can either do it the same way as everyone else or choose not to bother.

MTB is now just a big money making machine.

Theres far to much focus on ****ing bling components and all that shite.

It pisses me off.

You get all these pro riders (freeriders and downhillers mainly) whining on about their new best disc brakes or fork tuning and telling you how good this and that is. And its bloody boring.

I dont watch many of the road racing/grand tours stuff on TV. But one thing Ive never seen them do is whine on about bike components and bike bling and all that. Their bikes are just tools to get the job done.

I dont really know what my point is.

They didn't arrive fully formed. XC is still in it's infancy

and it has evolved, have a look at early Grundigs and the current World Cup.

IE it should be a sport that someone with a high level of road fitness, but no off road skill should never win

I guess you have never seen how fit AND skillful good roadies are?

Shouldering the bike and walking down technical features should never be a valid competitive option and racing round fields should never be considered.

XC the clue is in the name cross country, it is a race, ie get from A to B as fast as possible.

In the land of middle aged IT mtb riders i know it is hard to understand but if the UK Can't win at XC races that doesn't mean the races are wrong, it means the UK riders are. Sounds a bit like the US and the World series baseball.....

mrmo

I guess you have never seen how fit AND skillful good roadies are?

I know several former national champs. I am not overly impressed by their skill. Should I be?

XC the clue is in the name cross country, it is a race, ie get from A to B as fast as possible.

In the land of middle aged IT mtb riders i know it is hard to understand but if the UK Can't win at XC races that doesn't mean the races are wrong, it means the UK riders are. Sounds a bit like the US and the World series baseball.....

I don't know what an IT MTB rider is, and I'm not quite middle aged, but I have raced XC, DH and Enduro. Just because XC is in the Olympics doesn't mean it can't be improved, doesn't mean it can't evolve, doesn't mean it cant become something completely abstract and irrelevant if left unchecked.

I'm going to ignore your condescending tone anyway. I'm not interested in the UK winning or not winning, I'm talking about the sport in general. It needs a boot up the arse overall.

My reference to shouldering was, if you can think outside your wee box for a second, a point that tracks could be designed to negate or eliminate this aspect, or at least render it uncompetitive, thus giving some advantage to bike handlers.

I'm going to ignore your condescending tone. I'm not interested in the UK winning or not winning, I'm talking about the sport in general. It needs a boot up the arse overall.

Ignore the tone, point stands XC racing is what it is, that the UK sucks at it isn't the swiss or the czechs problem. If you want XC racers to win on the world stage accept it is what it is, get fit and race. If your interested in pony treking on bikes, on Enduro so be it, end of the day the winners will always be fit. it is racing after all. If you think that skill can ever compensate for being a fat knacker at the top end of the sport, in fact almost any sport, you are sadly deluding yourself.

My reference to shouldering was, if you can think outside your wee box for a second, a point that tracks could be designed to negate or eliminate this aspect, or at least render it uncompetitive, thus giving some advantage to bike handlers.

you have to finish to win. if you want to eliminate shouldering your going to have to look at roads, there will always be a time when shouldering is quicker, if it means throwing a bike over your shoulder to run past people so be it. Singletrack courses mean you can't overtake which means you have to be imaginative about getting past people.

muddyfunster, you could invent another sport?
XC is XC simple as that, you don't like aspects of it so no need to bother with it. I liked boxing in the Army but could never accept being hit by the other bloke so I got out. I don't even watch boxing anymore, not a bit interested.
XC exists because some people like me love it, I love to chase the other bloke over a mildly annoying course. And whilst I'm in awe of downhillers, freeriders and the like I've never ever even wanted to have a go or take part myself. And more to the point I don't want to change the whole face of that side of mountain biking to suit me.

Just one final thought, the UCI are clear that rightly or wrongly cycle sport is about the rider not the bike, that all forms of sport should be accessible. Make a course that demands 180mm of travel to be competitive how is that accessible?

For all its faults XC as it is allows anyone to come along and race, the bike is not the limiting factor, you are.

Just one final thought, the UCI are clear that rightly or wrongly cycle sport is about the rider not the bike, that all forms of sport should be accessible. Make a course that demands 180mm of travel to be competitive how is that accessible?

For all its faults XC as it is allows anyone to come along and race, the bike is not the limiting factor, you are.

I'm not really enjoying this anymore, but if you can't imagine any room for improvement then so be it.

And just to clarify, since my post was deleted I am anything but a fat knacker.

For all its faults XC as it is allows anyone to come along and race, the bike is not the limiting factor, you are.

Indeed, there was a kid on a cheap mountain bike wearing his trainers that completed the XC race in Milton Keynes Friday. Tough course as well.

For all its faults XC as it is allows anyone to come along and race, the bike is not the limiting factor, you are.

oldgit

Indeed, there was a kid on a cheap mountain bike wearing his trainers that completed the XC race in Milton Keynes Friday. Tough course as well.

And yet the top guys are on £2000 frames, with £2000 wheels, £1000 drive trains and £500 tyres so they don't loose a second on the climbs and across the flat. No, not about the bike. Level playing field.

Why are people blaming BC. Anyone who works for BC or knows people who work in the talent team/go-ride areas will know things are changing but success doesn't happen overnight. It will start with school kids, coaches and funding not some middle management weekend warrior who thinks Lycra is 'jey'
I wouldn't be too quick to diss the road/track either without their success there is no funding for MTB.
A lot of MTBers have a problem with 'xc' though which doesn't help.