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Is this now not moving towards a trading standards, companies House and even police for fraud…?
IANAL but I think that because everything is done through crowd funding or on ‘preorder’, that gets them out of the ‘not supplying’ issue.
Not sure on the law on timescales for refunds though.
wonder if this is why they stopped using paypal
PayPal’s preselling requirements.
If you’d like to presell items in an online store, keep in mind you’ll need to guarantee delivery within 20 days from the date of purchase and also let your customers know they’re buying a presale item.
doesnt explain the difficulty people are having getting refunds though. Looking at indiegogo for anyone who crowdfunded and it gets muddy and confusing
where’s the hard-hitting piece from the mag anyways?
MTB mags rarely seem to do proper journalism so I wouldn't hold your breath. Why bite the hand that feeds?
I find it best to look upon MTB mags as being 'independently' produced sales brochures, bulked out with actual adverts and occasional aspirational articles.
Cynical? Perhaps. But I'd wager the MTB press industry is far more reliant on the good graces of suppliers than the other way around.
Looking at indiegogo for anyone who crowdfunded and it gets muddy and confusing
IANAexpert but as far as I know, that's the difference between Kickstarter and Indiegogo. On Kickstarter everyone backs a project in exchange for publicised rewards at certain backer costs, but if the project doesn't reach its required target by the set date then the backers' money isn't taken and Kickstarter closes the project. When you back a project you commit to pay a certain amount on a certain date if the target is met.
On Indiegogo, everyone effectively donates to a project and the money goes to åthe project whether it reaches its target or not. I'd guess Indiegogo take their cut but the remaining funds then just go to the project more or less straight away, and if it's not legit then it's down to the funders to take it up with the project direct. As far as I know...
(in other words, if you want to run a scam, use Indiegogo not Kickstarter 😉
Here you go. There goes that ad revenue and my yacht.
just crowd fund a yacht?
I believe Indiegogo state in their terms that they will pursue the company on your behalf if the "perks" or whatever they're called are not delivered, don't know if they've ever actually done that or how far they'd go though.(in other words, if you want to run a scam, use Indiegogo not Kickstarter
The delay was annoying at first but when the crew at Sick reached out explaining why, I decided fair enough
Reached out? Whatever happened to "contacted me".
someone knock up a Sick bullshit-bingo card!! 😂 Include "onshore" as a verb too (as used earlier!)
Thanks, Hannah.
In summary, then - even the happy customers didn't get a good service, and things are still where they were before in terms of 'we're sorting it', apart from Jordan's own bike being FUBARed.
We all want new bike companies to succeed, but Sick really do seem to be trying to fail.
Hannah's article seems good and comprehensive.
Let's see what sick/Jordan say.
Well written and balanced piece that wasn’t the hatchet job that many wanted. Nice one Hannah.
How about a follow up on their charity donation claims? 😉
Let’s see what sick/Jordan say.
I think that's what Hannah was hoping to hear, no response to her, can't see it getting any better on the back of this thread..
I'm curious how many frames/bikes have been 'sold'.
Hannah talks about them " They went from being relatively small to suddenly fielding orders for hundreds of bikes…"
Is this really true?
orders for hundreds of bikes
Orders, maybe...
Deliveries?
As a counter point, it could be interesting to read about one of the smaller UK companies like Cotic or Bird for example, who despite being less edgy, seem to be making a success of it and keeping their customers happy.
As a counter point, it could be interesting to read about one of the smaller UK companies like Cotic or Bird for example, who despite being less edgy, seem to be making a success of it and keeping their customers happy.
Or Starling or Curtis... Sick seem to be very much in the minority.
Is their story on PB supposed to be the 'wait-for-it-we'll-be-back' big news..
Yep, as above - Curtis, Cotic, Stanton, Bird, Airdrop, Starling and more.
As a counter point, it could be interesting to read about one of the smaller UK companies like Cotic or Bird for example, who despite being less edgy, seem to be making a success of it and keeping their customers happy.
Simple, they didn't over promise and under deliver. Probably thought long term about providing good products for people who want to buy them on time. Did a bit of RnD and proved the product before opening the books to orders, then subsequently built a process around mitigation and failings of said product and dealt with them quickly whilst bearing in mind that a happy customer (and returning customer) is best served a fair and equitable solution.
AmIright?
I am aren't I..
Simple business model that. A Level Business Studies page 1, book 1 just after the introduction.
Some people in this world set out to complicate what is essentially a simple money for goods transaction process.
💁♂️
How interesting that both articles were published on the same day...
From PinkBike:
PB: "So your business model is to take pre-orders…"
Jordan: "Not anymore. Was."
PB: "When did you decide not to do any more pre-orders?"
Jordan: "Quite quickly."
Tim: "No-one likes a pre-order."
Which is odd, because I looked at the Sick site this morning. If you go to the frame pages there's text in italics saying "Please note, this is a pre-order".
How does anyone retain even the slightest whiff of faith in this outfit?
stwhannah
Here you go. There goes that ad revenue and my yacht.
> https://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/sick-bicycles-are-things-as-bad-as-they-sound/
Nice job. You've gone out of your way to be fair to them but the article is still damning.
So in the pinkbike interview they say they're not doing preorders anymore, but on their website you can only preorder frames. Hmmmmm
Or Dialled- I had a minor issue with my Mk1 Alpine, but it was resolved with quickly and Mike was pretty prompt with answering emails.
When did you decide to not do any more preorders?
Jordan Quite quickly.
Err...you might want to update your website then.
How interesting that both articles were published on the same day…
Which one went up first, I wonder?
Are we still doing tunes for S!CK?
So from the pb article, before they started sick...
Tim ...is find out how hard it would be to make a frame.”
But they still have no sodding clue what the answer to that is clearly.
"How interesting that both articles were published on the same day…"
We thought that too. Hannah's been working on this story for around two months, doing as much in-depth research as she could and even yesterday was talking to Jordan on the phone to get answers to her questions.
Jordan even asked what the rush was, while he must have known that the PB article would be coming out today. It's interesting that he seemed to be trying to get the Singletrack article stalled until after the PB one came out...
The pinkbike article is enough rope to hang themselves...?
We don't do pre-orders
Customers fault that refunds take so long
Only 14 outstanding issues
30 outstanding bikes to be delivered
A bad bike is a bad bike - but we've never done that
20 years on we're still not businessmen
Etc
to be fair having one badly written puff piece at the same time as the stw article makes them look even more shady. plus it's just an escalation of their usual sob stories
joemmo
Member
As a counter point, it could be interesting to read about one of the smaller UK companies like Cotic or Bird for example, who despite being less edgy, seem to be making a success of it and keeping their customers happy.
Cotic are one company who had an absolute nightmare of a time with supplying the Rocket frames they tried to build in the UK, and they disappointed a lot of people, but managed to work through it and retain a good reputation, because they kept in touch with and actually cared about their customers, and were straight about their problems instead of hiding behind a load of lies and bullshit.
We thought that too. Hannah’s been working on this story for around two months, doing as much in-depth research as she could and even yesterday was talking to Jordan on the phone to get answers to her questions.
Jordan even asked what the rush was, while he must have known that the PB article would be coming out today. It’s interesting that he seemed to be trying to get the Singletrack article stalled until after the PB one came out…
Crikey...
Crikey…
Indeed. Stinks of deliberate actions to mislead.
It’s interesting that he seemed to be trying to get the Singletrack article stalled until after the PB one came out…
To be fair, stalling is his superpower. Did Hannah's go up first in the end, or did you just hit publish because the puff piece on PB had aired?
Cotic are one company who had an absolute nightmare of a time with supplying the Rocket frames they tried to build in the UK, and they disappointed a lot of people, but managed to work through it and retain a good reputation, because they kept in touch with and actually cared about their customers, and were straight about their problems instead of hiding behind a load of lies and bullshit.
This. I had many months of 'will I ever get a Rocket?', but thanks to clarity from Paul/Cy, (and some less official info from Mick) I still eventually ended up a happy Rocket owner. Wasn't a fully paid-up pre-order situation though - I might have felt differently if it was.
I’d be of a mind to put some sort of clarification that this article is in no way linked to the PB one, make note of the stalling vs the PB article
colournoise
Subscriber
Wasn’t a fully paid-up pre-order situation though – I might have felt differently if it was.
Very true, big difference if they have your two grand pocketed and are ignoring your emails.
Pretty sure our story went up first by an hour... Had Hannah published when she'd first given Jordan a deadline, it would have been up weeks ago. All very interesting.
The pinkbike comments section makes for fun reading - mostly people still calling them out for lying as per a couple of people have mentioned the pre-order thing on here.
Didn't Cotic have massive issues with the Hemlock as well? But again, communicated & sorted it.
I see the sick website is now a one page holding with a new name on..
As a counter point, it could be interesting to read about one of the smaller UK companies like Cotic or Bird for example, who despite being less edgy, seem to be making a success of it and keeping their customers happy.
Yep, as above – Curtis, Cotic, Stanton, Bird, Airdrop, Starling and more.
You forgot Planet X/One One.
A HA HA HA HA HA HA
Pretty sure our story went up first by an hour
That's what I suspected. Almost feels like they knew what was coming and arranged something more sympathetic to try to spike the gun. Doesn't seem to have worked, mind you.
Ok, someone else is caught in the crossfire then...
http://sickbikes.co.uk
Bullshit, bullshit everywhere...
Screenshot taken just now...