[Closed] Ultimate 140mm light-weight trail bike

Why not have a light bike? There are no rules that say you have to have a bigger heavier bike just because you weigh more.

As other have mentioned, when you build 140mm bikes this light, they stop riding like 140mm bikes. My Five seems to have a magic weight of around 29lb where it seems to ride best in technical stuff and still be ok to climb again - and a love of riding technical stuff is why you bought a 140mm bike in the first place right?

I've seen far too many people build crazy light bikes and then actually hate riding them. Nervous, twitchy and uncomfortable is usually the words I hear.

Also agree some of these weights are a bit optimistic - I know before I had accurate scales I was living in fantasy that I'd managed to hit 26 - 27lb based on guess work, quoted weights and silly tyres. I now run at 29lb for weekend rides and chuck some skinny tyres on for marathons.

More lightweight cobblers; this time the other way.

My Orange 5 weighs 25-ish pounds. It's not built flimsy, it's built nicely. And it's a true weight, on a calibrated scale.

So why would it not ride like a 29lb Orange 5, but 3lb lighter?

Perhaps it be the coil bolt through fork, more hardcore tyres, Holzfeller bar and stem, meatier wheelset all adding up for a stiffer more planted, less nervous ride?

Have you ever built yours any other way?

Also Scott, very interested in the details of your build actually... 🙂

At 14.5 stone, I'd be fairly nervous raiding a 26lbs 140mm full-susser. There's nothing inherently wrong with riding a lighter bike, but, heavier riders can't expect a lighter bike to behave in the same manner as lighter riders riding the same bike could.

Wheels, frame, bars, forks, shock linkages will all flex more with heavier loads. This is just physics.

This is why STW is full of fatuous comments about 'blah blah bike, stiff as you like, all you'll ever need'

Maybe it would be for an 11 stone whippet, but it won't behave the same with me on it. Without qualifying your weight and riding style, these sorts of statements are meaningless.

I have to agree with several others on hear about optimistic weights.

I spent a considerable amount of thought and effort trying to lighten my 5 spot without compromising its intended use as a hard riding xc bike for a fat lad. In a large size, I've managed to lighten it from nearly 34lbs to 29.6lbs. Shaving off the weight from 30.5 to 29.6 was quite difficult to do whilst staying to my brief at the same time.

This has made a substantial difference to how it responds on the trail - Its much more responsive, but If I went any lighter, its character would begin to get a bit more flighty.

I have tried many options, but like it as it is now. These include Fox36's, Pace (coil) Fighters and various wheels and tyres.

I prefer the way it is now; it's honed to prefection. I can't seem to break it, or even bend it. It screams downhill and handles perfectly, not nervous or twitchy.

Mmm. ScottChegg your build must be flyweight or the scales are wrong. Previous thread indicates that Orange 5's usually come out about 28-30lbs.
[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/what-does-your-orange-5-weight ]Orange weight[/url]

Whatever, as GaryLake, scruff and others said surely if you have 140mm travel you want a beefy build to enjoy the technical bits and knowing your kit is going to stand up to it. That's one of the reasons I love my BLT2 - it just seems to take all the punishment I throw at it, usually through complete incompetence

Yep, standard was about 29lb, but that was a lot of upgrading ago. The crap Nevegals were the first to go - weighed a ton, and didn't work in mud. Same with the standard RF Evolve cranks; too heavy.

Now Full XTR, Chris Kings, Thomson masterpiece, carbon this, Ti that, blah blah blah. Scrummy.

There's nothing on it that I don't trust to last though. The Ti Fly saddle may be a weight saving too far, may go back to the Bel Air and cushion my chuff a bit more.

I'm somewhat skeptical - the Mojo sponsered lads have their Fives down to 25lb but they are built for riding in the NPS and have likely had no expense spared - I 'think' they also run a 120mm fork too.

Screaming downhill is all relative - I'm a pretty fast rider but I also know that I've got riding buddies who are leagues faster than me. All I'm saying is, what you class as screaming downhill, might not actually be fast enough to highlight the nervous nature of that build. In which case you could have got away with a lesser travel bike anyway. Not trying to get into an argument - I'm just 'saying' and I'm happy to be proved wrong.

All I know is that I removed skinny 2.1 HRs and a Fox 32 Float and Added 2.35s tyres (+1lb) and a 32 Vanilla 15QR (+0.4lb) and it descends much faster and is more secure.

No matter what you claim, there's no way you've achieved 25lbs without something like a 32 float (and I suspect something lighter and sacrier) and silly tyres like a sub 500g 2.1.

Scott, still not mentioned forks and tyres...

140mm 32 Floats and Racing Ralphs

Yes I'm very sceptical of that, as you say Gary, the Mojo boys have theirs in that sort of ball park, but they're full on XC builds, a bit pointless IMO, but they are nutters on the descents!

And I am the fastest downhill in any group I've ridden, by some margin.

So I need a lighter bike, because I'm not the fastest up the other side!

It's possible, but I'm gonna remain a sceptic!

To be honest, as long as you like riding it there's not really anything else that matters.

If you can't see the benefit of a 2.35 Nevegal going downhill over a racing ralph, your trails are tame or you're not that fast. Sorry.

However if your trails aren't tame and if you can go just as fast on the ralphs, at least admit there's a difference but you have the skills to 'get away with' the ralphs.

Either way, my beef is you saying that your 25lb Five is a sensible build and just as capable as a 29lb and you notice no difference in downhill ability... which is BS either way

Here's my old 575 Yeti, just a gnats under 25lb.
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I would use the Stans 355 rims or even the Flow if your a hard rider considering your weight - no offence as I wouldn't want you pringle the wheels. Built with stuff that doesn't break either. But if I had to choose a bike on ride alone, comfort and knowing it would take the rough stuff better I'd pick my old Turner 5 Spot anyday. The Yeti got affected by cross-winds too bad and just wasn't as plush as the 5 Spot. But the 5 Spot was over 30lbs because of the coil forks and shock but I'd still have this one any day
[IMG] [/IMG]

Screaming downhill is all relative

Oh and it's not whether you are fastest in your group, it's whether your bike strong enough for how fast [b]you[/b] go.

Build your bike as light as you want, spend as much as you want, just remember the advice others gave if you end up replacing expensive parts for something a bit stronger/heavier.

On the flipside people can completely overbuild their bike, again not a problem, just remember you've got to haul it back to the top. Not a problem riding on your own but your mates might get sick of waiting of you.

No, I can't agree. Nevegals are rubbish. Pikes are nice, but too heavy by about 1.25lb. If you need a 20mm axle on 140mm, you need better hubs. Ralphs are great tyres.

The boggies had a ride around my backyard

[url] http://www.bogtrotters.org/show_album.php?album_id=984 [/url]

Those are my local trails. It's not the alps, but it's not a canal towpath either. Skiddaw was taken in it's stride. Moab was a blast.

It's good. Really.

My 575 comes in at a shade over 28lbs since I added the bigger rotors and DHX air. I also weigh around 15 stone and it takes everything I can throw a it.

[img] [/img]

Sorry but I am going to call serious BS here - shows there must be some rubbish scales out there. A Yeti 575 weighing 25lbs? A 575 frame is 6.55lbs which is 0.55lbs more than my BLT2. I have a mid range build on the BLT2 and it is 29lbs. Where do you save 4lbs weight on kit?

My foes xct-5 is extremely rigid. Thors, XTR, tune etc it comes in at 27.7.

Marta Mags arrived today, which will take off a little but will add far more with NNic UST 2.25s that are also about to go on. 26.5 is poss but i wanted trail reliability.

I can see Im going to have to get the scales out & check the weight of my BLT2! 😉

My lapierre zesty 314 weighs 28 lbs. If I was to change to a lighter set of wheels say Pro 3 hubs onto Stans 355 and going tubeless I could lose at least 1.5lbs. Now these are still strong wheels and I know I wouldn't pringle them as I'm not an elite downhiller but like to ride fast XC techy trails with the odd small jump. In fact I am going to buy these wheels for endurance races and keep the heavier CrossRides for downhill stuff.

So losing 1.5lbs without even talking carbon bling I can see the Lap getting down to 25lb fairly easy TBH.

Er, 28lb - 1.5lb isn't 25lb.

CaptainMainwaring - ask Stu the Yeti rep or anyone who works at BETD, the Yeti on Ultimate Digital scales weighed in under 25lb - no bullshit! Oh you want the proof, here goes then. If you want the spec let me know 😉
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I'd be [i]really[/i] interested in that spec

Yeti 575 medium frame
Chris King Rasta headset
Easton EC90 SL Low Riser bars
Ritchey WCS grips
Ritchey WCS stem
Thomson Masterpiece seatpost
SDG Ti Yeti saddle
Tune seatclamp
Fox Talas RLC 08 forks
Avid Ultimate brakes with Hope floating rotors & Matchmaker clamps
SRAM X.0 shifters
SRAM X.0 rear mech
XTR M970 chainset
XTR M970 front mech
XTR M970 cassette
Control Tech Ti skewers
Goldtec Pro Comp front hub on ZTR Olympic rims running Stans NoTubes
Goldtec Pro Comp rear - as above
Schwalbe RR/NN tyres 2.25
Xpedo Ti/Ti pedals
cant remember the chain lol.

I changed to the Fox Float RLC's with 15mm axle and with new wheel it went just over 25lb. Our wheels are very light - especially running the NoTubes system. My mates got a 575, same year same size and his was heavier even thought he had all XTR gear and Hope wheels. The saving was in the wheels basically, which is why I recommended the heavier stronger Stans rims. Sorted 😀

Pikes are nice, but too heavy by about 1.25lb. If you need a 20mm axle on 140mm, you need better hubs.

What?!
There is NO hub in this world that can make a fork equally as stiff as a 20mm axle. I'm with Gary Lake on this one.

That's believable, those pedals are light (and crap!), skewers, seatclamp, brakes, bar, stem, grips are all light.

My Epic is nearly 4lbs lighter than that, be about right.

Badbloods Yeti is sweeeet.

[img] [/img]

I must have been really lucky with my pedals njee. One set did fall apart but after they were repaired they were fine. The bearings wear yes but they spun perfectly. With the kit on above I got the Intense 5.5 down to 25.5lb - like I said it's the wheels and little bits that add up.

Yes, you must have been! I had 3 sets that all fell apart within 6 months, it's a real shame, as they were great pedals to use, worked really nicely. I have still got a set, but with too much play to be of any use!

Hadge, fair enough but with that spec your build won't have given you much change from £4000. I'd be expecting something pretty special for that

"Pikes are nice, but too heavy by about 1.25lb. If you need a 20mm axle on 140mm, you need better hubs.

What?!
There is NO hub in this world that can make a fork equally as stiff as a 20mm axle"

You don't need pikes though for a 20mm axle
Pikes Range from something like 2.1kg to 2.45kg depending on air/coil, U-turn/fixed, materials

Magura Thor 100-140mm are 1740g
Revelations are a bit heavier, but between 1.8-1.9kg I think depending on U-turn or not

Still heavy compared to the latest Fox 32 Float QRs at 1.63kg or something silly (when rebas have gone upto about 1.7kg)

The Ti/MG's were the worst! They had a stupid little spring clip that broke at the slightest knock. The Ti/Ti's used a totally different design, as do the newer cheaper ones so things should be better now -apart from the play developing later lol

It was pretty special - it flew up hills and was very quick coming down them - apart from me that is lol. I did work out what it cost and it's not near that, closer to £3k. Pre price increase on Shimano I guess and I do work at BETD lol.

Agreed the mag/tis were worse, they were a totally different shape, much larger body, we had one chap who kept breaking them!

You can't beat XTR for pedal reliability though!

Hadge, sorry, but to say that you were nearer £3k on the build is just being in denial on your overdraft. My BLT2 frame is about the same as a Yeti. Standard build kit with Pike, X9, Hope Minis, Truvativ cheese crankset etc came out at about £2700 with SC build kit. Would have been over £3k if I had build from individual components. In your build I can see instantly at least £600 of extra cost without going into stuff like Ti saddles and carbon bling. This is STW not your missus you are talking to 🙂

Which would be £3300, ie nearer £3000 than £4000 😉

I agree though, I'd put it nearer to £4000, but that's fairly irrelevant!

I aren't in denial lol. I found the info for prices - £3175 for the lot. Brand new frame too - the clue was in where I work :wink:. The seatpost was second-hand all the rest was new. I do buy where's cheapest too - CK headset was £65 from US, and I got the XTR chainset when Wiggle were doing them for below £170!

Yes I think on todays prices, you'd be substantially over £4000, which still isn't bad when an S-Works Stumpjumper is £4500!

Got an edit to do 😉 Just weighed my BLT2 & its come in at 29lbs dead which is heavier than what I thought it was but I was weighing my HT at the same time & I fink I gots confused & mis-remembered 🙂 I paid about £3.5k for mine - my trick was to pay cold hard cash..Always a fave 😉

ps Like I said if I went for a lighter set of tyres & Stans or similar Id get the weight under 29lbs.

Actually we'd always far rather take a debit card than cash, cash is only an advantage if you're not putting things through the books, considering most shops log their stock by frame number it's pretty hard to do...

Well as someone said: "Ask no questions, tell no lies".

So actually Hadge, what you're saying is you built it for less than its replacement cost!

😉

Singletrackmonkey from here had his 05 5spot valued for insurance recently to allow for the price hikes. Its a pretty typical high-end build - pushed Air pike 454's and Fox RP3, XTR, Sram X.0, hope pro2's on mavics, thomson and Hope M4's - It came out at £4750.

Which reminds me. I should get mine re-assessed too...