Could you just take a strip of inner tube with valve attached, and glue either side to the inside of the tyre?
The time taken to glue the strip on would be reclaimed by making tyre changes easier, and you'd regain all the benefits of tubeless. Plus you could add sealant through the valve core.
Anyone know what glue would do the job though?
You're joking, right?
far easier to mount it ghetto style and glue it to the outside of the tyre.
Presumably we're talking tub rims though.
Dugast can do 'custom' tubs with whatever tread you want on one of their carcasses, not cheap mind.
If you really were going to try it, I'd use tub cement.
I'm talking normal rims. Haven't thought exactly how you would do the glueing, that would be the clever bit.
After that though it would combine the ease of using tubes (being able to pump from flat with even the tiniest pumps) with all the benefits of tubeless.
Tub glue is a very obvious answer to the what glue question, would it do rubber to rubber?
I've tried puncture cement but it didn't do anything 😕
Right... I see! I thought you wanted to try some tubs on the cheap in this way.
Tufo do something vaguely similar called a 'tubular clincher' IIRC.
I wouldn't bother.
GW, that sounds pretty sensible but I like the (imagined) neatness of glueing it to the inside.
Why not though Njee? If you don't believe in the benefits of tubeless then fair enough, but this seems like a nice simple approach to doing away with a lot of the stress associated with ghetto.
Have you been sniffing tub-glue Ian?
This sounds like an interesting plan. I reckon rubber vulcanising solution (patch glue) will be your best bet. Have used it in the past to glue pieces of innertubes into tyres for repairs on rips.
I do believe in the benefits of tubeless, I've been on tubeless for 9 years now (I had one of the very first sets of Crossmax USTs), which is why I can't be arsed with glueing chopped up inner tubes to my tyres, I'd rather do it properly!
It would probably work, but strikes me as too much faff. If you want to do it, tub cement would be my weapon of choice. Conti stuff is pretty good.
Are you really serious? So you'd need to glue a strip of innertube inside the tyre? How are you going to do this and keep it airtight?
Seems to me tubeless set ups do exactly what you are suggesting. If you change a lot of tyres get a compressor and use two part valves. Its simple.
Haha, but what type of glue Dougal, this is the question?
I had tried vulcanising solution before and it didn't work, wonder if the inside of the tyre was coated in something...
Annoyingly I don't really have the time to try this, but am definitely game, imagine, tubeless with any tyre and easy fitting, its the future!
Haha, but what type of glue Dougal, this is the question?
If only someone had made a suggestion...
If you really were going to try it, I'd use tub cement.
tub cement would be my weapon of choice
[url= http://www.fm-boyaux.fr/Guppy/articles.php?lng=fr&pg=43 ]FM Boyaux[/url]makes MTB tubs. His cross tubs are ace but you'd need new rims unless you want a crazy franken 29er tub?!
Nah, we're actually talking tubs, just talking about gluing a rimstrip to a tyre for a ghetto conversion.
Sorry Njee, that was a little joke with Dougal, I saw your suggestion and replied to it, and am going to try tub glue, maybe even the conti stuff which I hear is pretty good 😉
jamesP, it wouldn't even need to be 100% airtight. The big hassle with ghetto is making a seal between the tyre and the rim, as the air pisses out the side. If you glued the strip of inner tube in, even only 90% airtight, it would stop the air pissing out. Once you'd then put some sealant in I reckon you'd end up with an airtight system.
This means you could change/fit tyres more easily, and you wouldn't 'burp' the tyre as when the bead lifts there's still the strip of inner tube there.
I think this plan hinges on how easily you could glue the strip in. Once it took you longer than half an hour I'd just go back to normal ghetto, or learning to like the selection of UST tyres on the market..
You've have to attach a rim strip to every tyre you used though, which would be a right faff?
You'd have to make sure the tyre seated properly too.
The tyre would seat the same way they always do, with the air pressure pushing it from the inside. The whole point is that the glued strip would make it much easier to achieve that air pressure, c.f. the usual swearing at the track pump or buying a compressor.
But you're right, if it was really awkward to attach the strip then it probably wouldn't be worth the benefits, epecially as I don't actually swap tyres all that often...
I'd be worried about the strip not sitting flat though, and the tyre 'lifting' over the sidewall of the bead. You're likely to distort the rimstrip when you fit it, so I doubt you'd get a decent fit.
Try it, for £4 for some tub cement from Wiggle the worst that'll happen is that you'll ruin a tyre, so try it with an old one!
Sounds time consuming and messy but worth a try if you have the time I guess. Best of luck 😉
it would still be neat, you'd simply snanley knife off the excess tube along the circumference of the rim as you do with ghetto.
it'd basically be the same as ghetto tubeless but without the faff/mess if you wanted to change tyres.. wel it'd still be a slight faff as the tyre would be a tighter fit on the rim but you get what I mean, eh?
don't actually swap tyres all that often.
One for us Scots on the forum. Ie - it's generally [i]always[/i] muddy and wet. Are you still running those [s]tractor tyres[/s], er sorry, rubber queens, Ian?.
Haha, Bonty Jones ACX has seen me through Pentlands winter on the singlespeed, with the [s]tractor[/s] motocross tyre (sounds cooler) on the other bike.
Njee, so long as you fit the strip vaguely straight, when it inflates it will stretch itself to fit (just like a tube with multiple patches on it will still inflate a tyre straight). I've figured out (in my head) how you could fit it neatly enough to work.
GW, I think glueing it to the outside would work but I like the idea of having the bead untouched, means you could still use tyre levers etc to get it on and off. However your suggestion is probably a lot more realistic than mine!
I'm not blessed with time unfortunately, so might be a few weekends before I get a chance to try, will report back if i do!
If you do it inside the bead though, how are you actually going to do it? You'll have to squash the two halves of the tyre together to get the 'rim strip' to bond to the tyre, at which point you'll risk gluing the tyre to itself!
haha this argument/discussion is gold....
I have 3 pairs of REAL LIVE TUBULAR WHEELS non of this ghetto malarky
and 7 pairs of dugasts and 1 set of tufo's .
Dugasts good on all but uber extreme....pain to change but when you use them for racing its not a problem.
bruce
I had envisaged turning the tyre (assuming its a folder) inside out to do the first half, would allow you to do it pretty neatly, especially if you were able to turn it inside out with one bead actually located on the rim.
The second side would be the interesting one, you'd be able to press a lot of it down with your fingers, but the last third would probably be tricky, and would entail something along the lines of what you're suggesting.
Depending where you put the glue you should manage without any risk of glueing the tyre to itself.
Still all theoretical though, I've just moved in with a new flatmate and don't want to introduce him to the messier aspects of bike fettling just yet!
it will be a miserably messsy fail.
sorry
like the sound of the idea... although reckon it'll be difficult.
the faff of tyre changes is why i'm now not running tubeless any more. i may one day, but right now i just can't be arsed. don't get many punctures as it is, and do change tyres relatively regularly.
if you perfect it, drop me an email and i'll send you my tyres 😉
Bikerbruce
miserable - depends on my state of mind when I try it.
messy - only as messy as fixing a REALLY big puncture
fail - probably.
Plus real tubs are expensive, the beauty of ghetto tubeless is its cheap and works, so anything that makes it easier to do (see above) must be good.
Just don't see the point in proper tubs for MTB use. Great on the road where you can use much lighter wheels, better performance when you flat etc, and in cross, where you can run lower pressures, but why on the MTB?
Reynolds TOPO-Ts are heavy, and the AX-Lightness tub rims are crazy expensive and still the same weight as Innolite XCC250 clinchers!
As you're using Dugasts do I assume you're using them for CX Bruce?
No i use dugast with vredestein treads with a special wall coating,tufo xc3,dugast rhino 47mm with aqua seal and some prototypes from challenge.
The rims i use weight 300gms dead and i run them on tune hubs and xtr hubs and a2z hubs.for the 1275g is the tune...
they're better because they dont slipp on the rim,they deform better and weight is comparable once tyres are stanned up.
bruce
For the ghetto tubs, why not (crazy idea here, but you're clearly on the crack pipe already so....) stitch them?
Stich the section of tube to the bead, fire pile of sealant in there and let it handle the inevitable holes. You could probably vulcanise the edges a little as you go to ease the process.
You're not selling them to me! So you can't change tyres, if you puncture then you HAVE to change a wheel, which means you have to have multiple wheelsets, and at 1275g, they're heavier than light clincher wheelsets.
Tufo XC3s weigh 600g, which is more than a proper knobbly tyre converted, something like a Nobby Nic, start looking at more race tyres like a Rocket Ron and you're giving away 150g in the tyres.
If you're running special 1000g Crossmax R-SYS wheels I can see the point, but not otherwise!
What sort of pressures do you run in them? Have you ever actually had clinchers slip on the rim? That's a very weak justification!
I do actually also have crossmax ultimates so there 😛 on my cannondale....
I only ride the xc3 on some courses...look just try tubs for cross against clinchers there is the same difference here ultimately they roll better.
Bruce
C'mon then, how have you got those? You're a mid-pack Junior...
I said I can see the advantage for cross, where tyres are narrower, so you can run incredibly low pressures. There's also the advantages of high end tub rims being far lighter than clinchers.
None of that stands on the MTB though.
Tubs will have better rolling resistance for the same pressures due to their tubular shape: less hysteresis losses.
Also, I doubt there is an MTB tyre that has a sidewall to match the supppleness of a dugast!
Not that I even race XC! 😀
So supple that you **** your rims up when you run them soft!?
On cross, in the mire, yes. In XC with rocks and roots, no.
You're gonna be a bit screwed when you leave Juniors Bruce, no wheel swaps unless you're in Elite. So every puncture = race finished!
While I think that you'd have a very messy time trying to make one on your own, I can see the benefit of tyre manufacturers making beaded tubular tyres with the normal gap between the beads closed in with a rubber strip and a valve in the right place .. a kind of hybrid tub
perhaps they just want to keep selling us innertubes! It's a conspiracy I tell ya!
someone mentioned this thread to me earlier - said the guy must be smoking alot of good shit - now i know its you ian - i know my comments true 😀
btw if im not mistaken geax made a forae into this years ago ....
I'm far from convinced that this would practically work or have benefits but then I'll bet that's exactly what people said about ghetto to start. It often takes a [s]nutjob[/s] 🙂 slightly eccentric person to do these things first/come up with the idea.
Good on you - give it a go and I'll be interested to hear the results.
13thfloormonk - Member
I had envisaged turning the tyre (assuming its a folder) inside out to do the first half, would allow you to do it pretty neatly, especially if you were able to turn it inside out with one bead actually located on the rim...
I have seen a tyre like that about 40 years ago.
It looked like a normal tyre but had what looked like a section of inner tube vulcanised on one side (inside). The other side was not glued, but loose, but had enough width to bear against the inside of the opposite side of the tyre. Apparently air pressure was enough to seal it.
At the time it was very old and perished, so i suppose it was an idea from the 1890s to early 1900s (that's when the bike shop opened), and obviously not successful then because it did not become commonplace.
Might work now though with a compressor or CO2
Epicyclo, the idea would be to avoid having to use compressors or CO2, if you sealed both sides, even only 90% perfectly, you should be able to achieve enough pressure with even a normal pump.
While I want to prove this works, I've had so much grief recently with tyres, and so little time to fix them, that I'm very tempted just to buy some proper UST tyres and be done with it...
Tufo still do road ones, as I think I said early on. They call them 'tubular clinchers' or something similarly imaginative.
I can’t see any advantage inyour “Ghetto Tubs” idea over and above UST or Ghetto tubeless really,
Twice the faff of Ghetto tubeless, trying to glue a strip of inner tube into the tyre, with no additional advantage?
still fannying around with non tubeless rims ian ?
my stans 355s with yellow tape - fairly faff free with my blackburn track pump - by fairly faff free i mean i might have to apply weight to the tred at the valve area if it doesnt inflate first time ! - reminds me best change tires this weekend for SXC next weekend 😉
Oh jesus, I can just picture all the 'ghetto tub' threads we're likely to get!
I've gotta change mine too for the weekend, hopefully the Rons haven't worn out any more over winter!