Would like to do Tunnel Hill etc before it’s all fenced off.
Especially ‘Concrete Hill’
Anyone like to show me around?
Can do Wednesday onwards.
Jesus you actually want to do concrete hill! Are you mad?
I would as I live right opposite but I’m fat, slow and working.
Gutted they are fencing it off all the way round although not quite sure how they plan on fencing the bit by the canal? Or is it just the bit up by the new housing development?
what is this fencing off business all about please?
Is concrete hill that Tank ramp next to the gate?
Is all of that going to be OOB going forward?
Looking at the porridge map is it possible the fence is just security fencing for what looks like military employee accommodation, rather than just ' keep off our land' anti mountain bike fencing?
Concrete hill is at Porridge Pot Hill, not Tunnel Hill. The new fencing is going up at Porridge Pot Hill.
I rode Tunnel Hill yesterday and there is construction work going on, I did fear that it was also getting a fence but the work is to do with the railway cutting.
IF you guys are regular Porridge Pot riders then it would be very beneficial to get involved with TAG (as per Jon V's link above) and offer your support
There must be hundreds of regular users - lets make sure that they know how many of us use this forest and stop them locking us out!
Looking at the porridge map is it possible the fence is just security fencing for what looks like military employee accommodation, rather than just ' keep off our land' anti mountain bike fencing?
I had a ride along it last night, it looks like it's going to meet the existing fences at both ends, i.e. unless the gates open there will be no way to get to TH from Deepcut except via the road. That said my sense of direction is crap so I might be missing a way through.
It doesn't appear to be extending along the canal though.
There's no info what the full plan is, will it just be to separate the new housing development from PP, or will it block PP entirely, will the gates be open when not in use, etc.
Would like to do Tunnel Hill etc before it’s all fenced off.
Especially ‘Concrete Hill’
Anyone like to show me around?
Can do Wednesday onwards.
Have a look on the Trolls forum, mondays is slow, thursdays is moderate, tuesdays is quick enough to send you back to the thursday (or monday if it's really bad) group with your tail between your legs. Some weekend rides too, bu they're more ad-hock (and invariably at the quicker end of the scale).
No one want's to do concrete hill.
I spoke to one of the workmen about the fence, and he said something about it being to do with the new estate, and the part outside, will be a country park type of thing.
News to me and I live right opposite.
There’s 1200 homes going in where some of the barracks are.
At this moment the gates are open, but there is also orange tape up across some of the trails to stop riders going in there.
I believe the plan is for the whole area down to the canal to be fenced off but again not seen any real plans to back that up.
It’s a shame because there were some great trails through there.
Looking at what has gone up already and what markings have been put in place most of the fun trails will still be accessible. These being close to the new school, assault course and down towards the canal when you cross the internal access road between the two sets of barracks.
This has been driven by the housing development going up and keeping the increase in traffic away from the general training areas.
The only part up in the air at the moment it what happens to the assault course and how that affects access to the trails that run by it.
MoD and the local planning department have confirmed the plan is to remove all of the G2 area from public access. The full fence isn't up yet.
TAG is obviously trying to do what we can to stop this - investigating planning, talking to MPs etc, but it's a long shot.
I was put off getting involved in Tunnel Hill Trolls as it was suggested to me a bit of a quick XC group.
Was hoping for a bit slower pace and having a good look around, just exploring before it all gets closed off.
I really want to do concrete hill, or at least try, before it goes.
You could always have a look at the Strava heat map to get an idea of where the trails are and then go exploring.............
The idea natrix was to have a bit of a social ride..........
I wouldn't worry about it being a "quick XC group".
Just avoid Tuesday, that's the non-stop attempt by whoever is leading to rip your legs off. The rest are sociable, Monday stops on pretty much every other climb, Thursday tends to just stop once or twice for a snack.
Bring jelly babies/haribo/cake.
And I repeat, no one want's to do concrete hill, if climbing a 1in3 wall of concrete is your thing then maybe Tuesday pace may suit you after all!
it was suggested to me a bit of a quick XC group.
The Monday and Thursday groups will be so chuffed to hear that..... fat arses, the lot of them 😉
The Monday and Thursday groups will be so chuffed to hear that..... fat arses, the lot of them
Oi, I resemble that comment.
Jaffa Cake anyone?
(for the avoidance of doubt I also consider myself a (lapsed) Mon / Thurs troll. Lardy arse n'all)
You know concrete hill i just a strip of concrete about 100m long that's quite steep. It's handy to get to the top quickly, but not worth a special trip for!
It has in my long and unillustrious cycling career provided some of the highs (times I've got up it) and lows (times i didn't)
That said - the ultimate low was watching a Gorrick race on it and watching the Elites charging up it in the big ring; that's when i realised i wasn't anywhere near being any good at all.
The high - was watching one of the proper Troll riders go up it on his singlespeed, clearing all of the concrete section but then where it levels slightly but the surface goes back to stones, took his eye off the ball and promptly span out, nutted the stem and fell off in the most inauspicious fail of all.
Wasn't me was it, because I've definitely done that!
Can't even clean the concrete section now though.
That said - the ultimate low was watching a Gorrick race on it and watching the Elites charging up it in the big ring; that's when i realised i wasn't anywhere near being any good at all.
Do what I do - fit a 1x transmission. Then you can tell people you smash up everything in the big ring 😆
Mark try a Monday evening ride am sure you enjoy it.
Jon am not sure who that was who did that on a ride concrete hill but then there's be some funny crashes of the years.
If the Monday crowd are around and don’t mind me joining in, where do we meet and time?
@Ewan, I heard someone talking about Concrete Hill at a recent Swinley Thursday Ride and it piqued my interest.
I live in Reading so not a million miles away for a special trip.
Mark, did you manage to get out with the Trolls last night?
Did Concrete Hill once just because bunch of us decided we couldn't be bothered riding all the way round to get to the top. I was surprised I managed okay-ish. It's not something I'd specifically want to do though.
Army use it a lot for running up.
Anyway, as stuff above, everything that's been heard so far from various sources inside is the intention is to shut it off completely. They've done it thanks to the housing development as rumour is the developers are paying for the fence. It also means they can't use the training area as a SANG, so instead they're providing a green area around by the assault course. The fence then keeps the folk from the estate out. So far no fence by the canal but word is something will happen there and also someone in the know has seen plans for a lot more fencing. Further rumour is they would love to close off TH itself and even that the intention is to close off the lot, including Caesars.
and yeah, Troll Monday is a pootle. Thur bit quicker, or just less stopping. Tue is a different level though and seems to be getting quicker all the time.
Bit of divide and conquer by MOD/DIO knowing that these areas cut across a number of parish / county boundaries and therefore there's no concerted political will to retain public access for amenity purposes. I live adjacent to Long Valley / Caesars and noticeable how they've simply closed-off most of the parking areas along the Bourley Road - there were at least four 20 years ago, now down to one pot-holed excuse. They closed the big DZ/Burns Plain one a two years ago for forestry work - it hasn't reopened since. I've noticed some new marker tape going up in the woods, so expect the annual motorbike enduro in the next few weeks which will leave a foot-wide, water-filled trench making it useless for anyone on foot / bike - how they can claim environmental protection from bikes / dog walkers whilst letting a few hundred motorbikes churn their way through the woodland is beyond me. Locals are denied access but outsiders paying to ride motorbikes through an SSI is OK?
Current rumour from the contractors is a bit more positive, they're fencing it off to bring in equipment to make some more accessible paths and a cyclepath. The fencing is only temporary. So we may be safe after all.
If the Monday crowd are around and don’t mind me joining in, where do we meet and time?
Varies from week to week, it's usually announced on the forum sometime over the weekend http://tunnelhilltrolls.get-forum.net/, there's a list of meeting points, nearby car parks, postcodes etc in the sticky thread. Meet 7:00 for a 7:15 start (i.e. arrive at 6:59, don't start faffing at 7.14!)
I think next week we're back at Caesars Camp or Minley.
i would be happy to show you round on a Monday if its still open? im normally alone and also found the THT's a bit too quick & frog marching when i joined them once - i prefer just to dick about, session the fun bits rather than clocking milage. However, next week (27th) would be my last chance before xmas, and if its arsing it down im not interested - but i could certainly provide you with a gpx route taking in all the best bits...
Personally would not be too bothered if we lost the Porridge side, but id be gutted if they made the Tunnel Hill bit on the other side of the road out of bounds!! such a fun little spot, perfect for a little lunch hour shred...
btw has that step up gotten about x3 bigger recently!?
For me the better stuff is on Porridge. Especially the whole run from Deepcut Spar down Watership to Magic Garden.
I also like running up from TH through Porridge to get to Frith* and maybe Swinley.
* - Housing plans mark a dedicated path through Frith. I suspect this will involve fencing off the rest to keep the public out, so we lose Frith also, which is a nice little gem (when you can find the trails 😉 ).
TH is harder to mess with as there are rights of ways through it, including a byway. However it's long rumoured that if they had a chance they'd fence off what they can.
nice vid filmed on TH...
First they came for Porridge Pots, then they came for Long Valley....
PLEASE SHARE – the MoD have revealed their plans to fence in *all* of the long valley area via a response to a FOIA request. Please contact your local councillors and MPs to register your objection to this. What we know so far:
* All of the land between Fleet Road and Bourley Road will be enclosed with a dog proof fence
* The implementation date is by March 2018
* No public consultation is planned
* MoD have contacted Hart and Rushmoor councils who have told them that no planning permission is required
* Unclear whether all public access is to be removed, but the obvious question is why would you fence the area with a dog proof fence if you’re still going to allow public access – once the area is fenced the byelaws permit the exclusion of the public
* Skanska are doing the work (the same company that has fenced in Deepcut)
Confirmation that the recently erected fence at Deepcut will also extend to the Canal has also been provided – this will exclude public access as suspected.
These plans and the recent fencing at Deepcut appear to show that the MOD are planning to remove a huge amount of land from public use – they seem to be achieving this by selling land to house developers and then using the excuse that the new residents of the very same housing developments will constitute an unacceptable increase of public use (and then getting the house developers to fund the fence!). TAG believes we must fight this and retain access to the land that makes this area special. Our only chance is to use our democratic representatives to fight these developments and make MoD think again. Please help us in this!
Simple solution. North Shore over the fencing.
@natrix, as soon as I put this up I got a contract for evening work!
I can ride in the day
I'm curious to know what a dog proof fence is.
@mark d you might be able to find one of the trolls free during the day
@dead kenny I took a dog-proof fence to be the same as a stock fence (they put one around a part of Hawley so that they could graze cattle) but judging by the photos on the Trail Action Group facebook page it looks like a person-proof fence to me 🙁
Mark; I have a week off next week 4-8th and will be spending some of that time on the bike if that's any good for you?
Hopefully we'll find out what a dog proof fence is shortly (we know it is going to be 1.4m high - i assume like the stuff over the army canal bridge near the air accident investigation board rather than the 8ft stuff in deepcut).
The point of any fence is that according to part 2 of the byelaws, as soon as the land is enclosed the public are technically not allowed in.
as soon as the land is enclosed the public are technically not allowed in.
To be fair when they fenced in parts of Hawley with a stock fence they put in stiles and cattle grids and they still allow public access.
Incidentally, latest issue of MOD's Sanctuary magazine (page 62) has an article on public access to training land describing how they met with ramblers, horse riders and motorcyclists, but sadly not mountain bikers......
Cycling Uk (formerly CTC) are attendees at the annual MOD access forum meetings and are in dialogue over a number of access issues. I believe it wasn’t highlighted in sanctuary because name change and it’s fallout was still ongoing at the time.
those who have read the TAG report will also know they have met on this issue locally and are involved and supporting TAG
@theotherjohnv, that would work well. What day are you thinking? I can be on the ground as early as you like.
I need to be back by 2pm.
Not Monday, and hopefully will hear back re a job interview in London today or tomorrow for another day next week, but likely to still have 3 choices..... if u r flexible could base it on weather nearer the time?
Well done Simon...... a hugely reasonable approach, presenting TAG and the area's MTBers in a great light.
Come on DIO, come to the table and show some rationality too.
That is some very good work from TAG on the TV, let's hope it gets some dialogue going.
The MOD have recently released an information film called [i] Without a Trace - Safeguarding the Defence Estate [/i] which can be seen here:
One quote which stood out was “To ensure our training spaces are available… we need to work together and respect the communities that we share the land with”
Somewhat staggered by that film, the content seems to be directly at odds with the current situation!
mark_d; Tues or Thurs look possible, maybe Friday
Thursday prob best if I'm honest.
Can be pretty much as early as you like - but can't be arsed with lights so realistically 0830 ish. Could meet you at Deepcut, if you email me I'll send you a GR and then have a coffee and a bacon sanger at the cafe afterwards?
took the dog for a walk around Porridge Pot earlier.
Very sad.....
Fence extends right from the corner by the clay pigeon range all the way across to the top of watership down, although it does leave the patch closest to the new school / small arms range.
Then it's already in place from by the canal cottage up to the gate where the old sandbag fort used to be and then back down again - so the canal path opposite the towpath is also impassable. All they need to do is close off at the railway bridge corner and it's all shut.... and although gates were open a number of the old heritage trails are already blocked by the fence, so Magic Garden, Watership Down are already RIP in their former guise.
Guess how many soldiers I saw while criss crossing the area for 2 hours this morning......
mark_d; Thursday am any good?
Has no one looked at the planning application ? Shows a phased building site to build houses over most of that side of the canal... In a few years it will almost all be gone 🙁
Where is Watership Down cut off from? Assume typos can still ride around the assault course perimeter and either fork left into Watership Down or follow the fence down and join up the bottom to follow to the link road. And can you still use Flow Rider to get to the canal and into TH? Been a few weeks since last over there and was planning one tomorrow but sounds like maybe it's not worth it now. Sad state of affairs having to resort to Swinley for local rides instead.
nope, the fence runs 'parallel but narrowing' with the assault course fence up to the top of WD at which point it ties into it.
Flow rider? Don't know that name?
You can still ride the area - gates are all still open (and needless to say in 2 hours of criss cross walking with the dog I didn't see a single soldier) so don't get put off yet, in fact ride it while you can!
Excellent, not changed much from a few weeks ago then! I can see more attention being paid to the small patch of MoD between Ligh****er and Bagshot once this fencing is finished off. The jumps are being added to and noticed the old trail or two starting to be cut in. There's a bit of potential there with the gradient on offer for some fun unofficial stuff.
Flow Rider... if you follow the link Road from Magic Garden down and round there's a small trail the climbs in to the right the.then dives back down sharp right. That little run that drops through the gulley and ends up by the canal before the muddy drop in is Flow Rider.
The development website is [url= https://www.mindenhurst.co.uk/ ]here[/url] - can anyone (with more photoshop skills than me) overlay the fence line onto their plan below to see if there's anything left?
[img] 
[/img]
From what I saw a few weeks ago, everything within central SANG should be safe as the fence runs along it's perimeter. I'm over there tomorrow so I'll be able to confirm how it runs along the SANG link and in the Southern SANG to the canal, that would mean trails around The Princess would be safe but as mentioned already, Watership Down and others into the Southern SANG like DB's Magic Garden may be lost.
Unless I'm reading that map wrong, all the coloured mapped area is currently within the barracks that the MOD are vacating. The bottom right orange circle with the purple path coming out of it is the canal cottage marked with the arrow here.
The building numbered 5 a bit to the north of it is the building that's the other side of the fence to Watership Down currently, arrowed here:
Watership down runs along the boundary of the coloured to white bit of the Mindenhurst map, the assult course is around the edge of the bit marked as the Minden plateau. All that we know and love as Porridgepot is in the white part of that map, much if it isn't actually even on it because the RH edge of the Mindenhurst map only goes to about as far as the arrow on this map here (look at the shape of Brunswick road, the tarmac road between the two barrack entrances)
Fenceline plan
[url= https://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/18/61/77/90/22713210.jp g" target="_blank">https://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/18/61/77/90/22713210.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
also FWIW the 'central SANG' - the only trail in there currently is basically the one that was in almost all Gorricks, wiggles down through some muddy berms coming out to a fireroad where you can climb to the assault course, or if you go straight over wiggles back up to come out by the short small arms range and funny brick sort of hut before coming back to the fireroad and up to the assault course. That central SANG is not a large area.......
Here's my take on it, based on a visit yesterday. The fence goes all the way to the canal by the lock cottage now, so you can't get along the path on the North side. Not sure what they are going to do to stop people getting in over the next two lock bridges along, but there's currently no fence along there.
Rumours are (from a Deepcut village page) that the fence is now finished and the gates will be closed first week of December. For now, all gates still open and you can get in and out several places. Red blobs along the fence are gates.
[img] 
[/img]
Looking at that the lower part of the fence from the assault course is pretty much just using existing boundaries anyway where fencing already exists or there are natural ridges. The final run to the canal uses a gated access point IIRC. It's the upset part at the Brunswick estate that's rather contentious and causing the main issue of access. The Princess looks to be the only trail that's avoided being cut off for now until the diggers roll in.
What I am interested in is what happens at the lock at the canal access bright by Gepemouth. There is existing fencing that could be extended and the obvious place is to shut off at the bridge but I think access to the lock gates may prevent that from being actioned. Could mean a point of entry in, or st very least gain access to the bomb holes.
If they close off the lock bridges (there's the one by the railway bridge and another between there and the canal cottage) I'm planning a crowdfunded rigid raider that can be used to ferry cyclists over in the dead of night, cockleshell heroes style.
Beat them at their own game......
But don't tell anyone.
Princess is outside the fence but is being wrecked by machines. I think that's going. RIP.
Assault course to Watership has more wreckage and is cut off by the fence. RIP
Though you can detour via the nearest gate and get inside the fence, but end bit to get to the downhill of Watership is tricky to squeeze through. Can take a left steep down instead and immediate right up the bank to get to the start of it. Rest is okay and can run down to Magic Garden and that runs fine, just with a change at the end with the trail running inside the fence now.
Gates closed screw it all up however.
Shame. Deepcut all the way down that to the canal was my favourite trail in the whole area.
There is still a possibility that the fence is there as a temporary measure to cut off the training area from the development until it's done. Though don't get why all the way to the canal.
Princess?
Was there today, that fence is a right PITA ! 👿
theotherjonv - Member
Princess?
The top section from Deepcut running to the assault course / Watership. Though I generally call all that Watership.
So that went well.
Was supposed to meet Mark_d but he had transport issues and couldn't make it. So I set off on my own (in the pissing rain) and within 1km had fallen off once and then (separate incident) got a stick in the mech that ripped the hanger off.
Fortunately a km of wiggly Deepcut singletrack means I was only about 500m from the car. So I avoided a LONG walk in the rain. Just a short one.
Got home and found my replacement hanger, set it up but wouldn't work. Then spotted the mech was mashed as well, clutch bit broken off and cage bent. Had just fitted new jockeys too, so at least they can be saved.
So now need a new spare mech hanger, and I've used my parts box rear mech so need a new one of those as well to backfill. Under 1km of riding - that'll be £55 please.
Still planning on trying again tomorrow though.......
Hope today's ride went better Jon, certainly looks like better weather 😀
certainly better than yesterday's...... but PP is properly messed up. The bits in and around the watertank are all intact but the fence cuts right across many trails so you can't for example get to the top of watership down any more unless by hike-a-bike - and it seems deliberate. The fence runs parallel but narrowing to the fence around the assault course along the top of WSD, it could have run in at any point but seems to run in just the place so that you can't ride the top path of that escarpment inside the new fence now.
And the logging on Princess and a few other areas - again doesn't seem like commercial logging (which is now all over the south west corner of TH as well - all over Sleeping Squaddies, etc.) but just hacking a few bits down to cover the trail.
And then also on TH - P45 had some nasty branches across it; some just laid on the trail, some wedged across onto trees at 3-4 feet off the ground, and a few lifted and propped so the pointy ends were coming straight up towards you. I cleared it (first checking it wasn't army closures but no soldiers in sight all day) but interested to see if it was 'official' or if we now have a TH stickman.
Sounds like it isn't worth using porridge to get to TH now for me from Ligh****er. Fireroad along the maltway and then down the hill into Deepcut and over the railway now.
I've seen braches crossed across the trail on P44 and entry into Tight Like A Tiger before due to soldiers having been there but never P45 as it's not really where they would camp down. One to keep an eye on for sure. The bottom of Freeride Heaven is another to watch out for.
If the gates are open then straight down the fenceline and out at the canal bridge is ok, but I'll also be scoping / resurrecting some old trails on Frith / golf course for the time when the gates get closed.
Yeah, it's not usual they'd use P45. The portaloos and sometimes Landmarc van are parked by the entrance but it's P44 and others they're using. Not impossible though.
Frith - There's a Gorrick / Brass Monkeys coming up, so hoping that will clear some trails. Riding through last week and I was going purely by memory riding on a deep bed of leaves with barely any sign of the trails.
I have fear that Frith will be fenced off though. Part of the plans is to establish or upgrade a path / RoW through Frith for housing access and I wouldn't be surprised at all if that meant fencing everything either side of it. Otherwise I don't see the point of them planning the path at all.
A lot of residents already access Frith from St Catherine's Road and there is already an established RoW from there into Frith. I imagine they will link up from the Deepcut side leaving the land siting behind the Golf Course open to public access and the other side, where all the good trails are, closed off.
I think Between the M3 and A30 will be a more productive area to re-establish trails in the long term. If anyone fancies a look over there I'd be up for a general recce.
Resurrecting old trails sounds like a good idea - no issues with access on them I take?
If so, I'd be up for helping out.
Officially I expect access is as per all MoD areas. Unofficially I would say there's a very high degree of tolerance due to the multitude of RoW though the area and its general lack of use for training. It has a small car park off the maltway so I don't see access an issue right now. The Tank testing cicrcuit in Ligh****er gets more usage and that is very minimal. They may tighten up but I think Deepcut and St Catherine's Wood will keep them preoccupied for a few years yet.
Gorrick used to run a few races there in the early days so there are some remenants of those trails plus animal runs that have been purposed into useable trails. There are also some natural runs that could be opened up with a bit of clearing and sweeping of debris on the ground.
re Long Valley - some good news ie the DIO will continue to allow public access, what form this takes remains to be seen?
The Hart DC deputy leader made a impassioned statement during a full council mtg and it is minuted on their website, sorry cant get the link to work.
30th Nov mtg if you want to dig it out.....
From
Councillor Forster asked:An FOI request has revealed Defence Infrastructure Organisation (DIO) intend to construct a 6 mile fence intending to enclose 900 acres of Long Valley. Section 2 of Aldershot and District Military Lands Byelaws (1976) states:
CL.56
…the public are permitted to use all parts of Military Land not specially enclosed…for the purposes of open air recreation at all times when the Military Lands are not being used for Military purposes… We are concerned about restricting public access so can Hart District Council urgently request to:1. Meet formally with DIO and ascertain the level of impact on the physical and mental wellbeing of local residents and how this has been taken into consideration when planning such a fence; 2. Obtain, in writing, details of whether/when the Long Valley proposed area will remain open for public use/recreation 3. Include in this meeting representation from key stakeholders including the active local community of recreational users. (Cyclists, runners and walkers).
Councillor Neighbour read out Councillor Radley’s response:
I am sorry that I am not available in person to answer Cllr. Forster's question as this is a matter that is very close to my heart. I have been asked to respond on behalf of the administration to this question as I have an existing relationship with the Defence Infrastructure Organisation (DIO) in respect to their management and use of Longmoor Camp for military training.
This past weekend I both rode my mountain bike and enjoyed an exhilarating walk with my wife and our dog Paddy through the area which would be effected. I should emphasise that when on my bike I always keep to the designated footpaths and avoid any training when I see it. I am aware of the disruption that inconsiderate riders cause by literally riding through encampments and even over soldiers in their fox holes!!! I am also very much conscious of the dangers posed by the Eelmoor HSTT (High Speed Test Track) and Long Valley off road driver training areas.
It is because of repeated 'near misses' by people trespassing on these areas that the army have been forced to take action. An early precaution having been the closure of the Bourley Road car park; a closure in response to which I first approached DIO.
Unfortunately, from the army's perspective, to subdivide the area by fencing off just the High Speed Test Track would subdivide the area and result in an area too small for effective training. Therefore they have informed me upon enquiry this week that they intend to fence in all of the training land north of the Bourley Road, but not including the Tweseldown race course nor the adjacent Rushmoor SANG. There is no intention to fence off the area south of Bourley Road and hence as long as they are abiding by the by-laws people can still enjoy the staggering view from the top of Caesar's Camp.
In regards to the area north of Bourley Road, it is the intention of the army to allow public access to this area when it is not being used for training.
For clarity, the MoD are well aware that as the proposed fence is 1.4m high, on their own land and not abutting the highway that it is permitted development and so do not need to obtain planning permission from Hart or Rushmoor.
CL.57
Hart open spaces team have reached out to DIO to start liaison meetings. The DIO are particularly keen to point out that the MoD have already given up over 700 acres of prime training estate to SANGS in recent years, I am sure that the promotion of these sites for alternative recreational use will be on the agenda. The important matter of how readily the promise of allowing public access when the training lands are not in use is granted will also be a subject for monitoring and on-going discussion. Once established such meetings may be able to offer opportunities for particular interest groups to raise and discuss their concerns.On a personal note, I and my family have enjoyed the use of these lands for over 25 years and we will be as devastated as anyone else to see them fenced in and public access restricted. However, it has to be recognised that this is a consequence of the army consolidating their resources in this part of the country as they withdraw from a wider presence in Europe. Therefore I am very relieved to see that it is the army's intent to continue to allow the public to enjoy this area whenever it is safe to do so.
Councillor Forster asked a supplementary question: Would the District Council support the registration of these areas as assets of community value, ensuring they are not fenced off and sold for future development – is that feasible?
In Councillor Radley’s absence, Councillor Neighbour would ask Councillor Radley to respond in writing.
TAG got an clarification on the last foi request (the one that found out about the bourley fencing) - as above there will be some kind of public access (we will put in another request to get the details), and the deepcut area will definitely be out of bounds to the public.
Any thoughts on a working party to resurrect some of the old trails?
At this point I expect it's worth reminding everyone of the sensitivities around digging on Barossa and Poors Allotments (the bit between swinley and the A30). Iirc there was a race there a year or 2 ago which the army were OK with as long as the trails weren't permanent, but then after the race people kept riding them and that didn't go down well. Expect some on here were more involved so can fill in the details.
That was Natural England who got in a huff about Barossa. Though I'm still dubious about claims they had video of people uncovering trails at night and blame aimed at mountain bikes. Were the videos ever released? Would they really have had covert cameras to catch people?
It smelt more of providing an excuse to ban future events.
Ps I'd heard rumor of similar at caesars where an event was approved and then kicked off about digging and then events seem to get banned or cancelled.
and the deepcut area will definitely be out of bounds to the public.
🙁 RIP
Also frustrating as it serves my main route from canal to Deepcut and up the Maltway. Got a long detour now. Why couldn't they leave the fenceline climb at least?