Hi,
After a bit of research on stoves i settled on a Trangia 27 for going bikepacking later this year. I enjoy proper cooking so it suits my needs better than jetboils etc.
Is it worthwhile getting the kettle for it? Does it significantly speed up boil time vs an open pot?
Cheers
We used to use these for D of E expeditions years ago,
They are great but quite slow to boil compared to a jetboil and the pans get covered in soot
A lid definitely helps for bringing water to the boil, I found the Trangia set up altogether a bit heavy so have stripped back my cooking kit to a 'coke can' stove, a wind guard and a Alpkit Mytimug, which is much lighter and enough for brews and one-pot cooking.
The kettle is ace. Haven't tried boiling water in an open pot on my trangia.
We use them for family camping. The kettle fits inside and isn’t heavy so useful as a closed vessel for boiling separately.
You’re supposed to add a little water to avoid soot. You can also buy a multi fuel burner if the speed bothers you.
I've never had any love for these. They are heavy, uneconomical and they don't simmer well so proper cooking is quite hard IME.
Given the huge number of stoves on the market I'd go with something else. I have an old Whisperlite, I'd consider a later model with the adjuster on the burner instead of the fuel bottle but even that's a bit porky for bikepacking.
Poor choice for bikepacking, I'd say.
Trangia's work well. But by heck they are heavy.
I use a Speedster and have a mini Trangia
Speedster: https://speedsterstoves.co.uk/ - I have Alpkit Ti mug/pan, plus Speedster windshield etc - and it is great.
A jeboil is pretty powerful - but my generic (branded Eldelrid) gas stove is very controlable and with a heat spreading pan, you can cook like at home easily.
Poor choice for bikepacking, I’d say.
This. Bulky, heavy, inefficient. I mean, why would you?
If you're taking a Trangia I'm guessing you're not to concerned about carrying a bit of extra weight anyway so you may as well take the kettle. I've never actually taken a Trangia bikepacking but on my last trip I did take a Trangia kettle and one non stick Trangia pan and handle and used it with a little gas stove. Perfect for morning coffee and scrambled eggs.
Trangias are an excellent little stove. Robust, very windproof, all nests nicely, simple. They're not very powerful though, I've converted mine to run with a multifuel stove. Great for scouts!
But they're rubbish for bikepacking because they're bulky and hard to pack when bikepacking.
If you're set on taking one definitely get the kettle. They work really well and nest perfectly in the set. I'd also recommended the multi disc thing as I use it as a lid, colander and chopping board
Take the kettle. I use the miniversion. In the photo example above (snow nearby) you'll be waiting a long time for water to boil with an open pan.
In the photo example above (snow nearby)
The tent was frozen solid!
I mean, why would you?
Exactly, I cannot think of any aspect in which a Trangia is better than the alternatives except perhaps durability in the hands of clumsy teenagers. That said, the thought of knocking one over whilst burning probably offsets that!
My Trangia 27 in action.
Bit heavy for bike packing. Canoe camping / day trips where weight and size not a problem - perfect.
Mine must be 30+ years old now. It will outlast me.
I mean, why would you?
I cannot think of any aspect in which a Trangia is better than the alternatives except perhaps durability in the hands of clumsy teenagers
They're lovely and quiet for a start and don't need gas canisters that get thrown away when they're empty.
Another for not a bike packing bit of kit - group of 4 teenagers on a foot or canoe expedition is a trangia's sweet spot Like Matt above I've gone the way of a speedster meths burner (convinced it's just basically an adapted mini vaseline tin), a bit of foil and a wire stand, all packed into a ti mug with a lid. Space in there for some coffee and other bits and bobs too. Then a handful of super cheap meths containers in a variety of sizes depending on the length of the trip. The smallest one fits in the mug along with everything else for quick overnight mini adventures. 2023 is the year I move away from gas cannisters - I'm under canvas enough nights a year these days that my annual stash of 90% empty canisters is ridiculous. So here on in it's my little meths setup or drag out my whisperlite if getting a bit more serious.
Quiet, I'll give you, although most stoves aren't exactly noisy.
Gas canisters can be refilled or you can use a liquid fuelled stove.
If only there was a way of refilling those small gas canisters...
I also have two small meths stoves. If I took both of them, total weight (excluding fuel) would be less than 30g and they'd both easily fit into a small mug.
one of the Jetboils (Minimo) can be simmered which in combination with their adapter allowing you to use a larger pan/pot (I used their own finned large pot which although relatively expensive heats quicker/more efficiently) allows you to cook "properly" if you wish!I enjoy proper cooking so it suits my needs better than jetboils etc.
Mine must be 30+ years old now.
My Whisperlite is 29 years old.
If only there was a way of refilling those small gas canisters…
Yes, not experimented with those yet. I've spoken to a couple of people who have and their cannisters have developed leaky valves after a while. I guess it could be user error or using cheap cannisters.
My situations a bit different as fuel - in the form on mini cannisters or meths is free through work. So my choosing the latter and not attempting to refill cannisters is maybe driven slightly differently. But as you say the meths method (albeit not with a trangia) is also light and small which is handy. Slower mind - but I'm rarely in a hurry by the time it's time to prep food.
In response to the boiling time I don't think the kettle is much if any faster. Put the pan on with the fry pan lid on top (rim facing down) and it boils fine. If speed is the issue don't use a trangia. It's a relaxing stove.
It is bulky and heavy but for car camping in summer when there's no hurry it's great and feels less wasteful than gas cannisters.
If cooking pasta for the family whisperlite wins every time. Fast, burns petrol so little waste and had mine not quite as long as molgrips but over 20 years.
Also got a planetx jetboil copy which is great for a brew if out for a walk but difficult to make gourmet food.
For lightweight carrying without the meths faff pocket rocket or other canister top stove is great but definitely need a tripod cannister base like the jetboil ones. Foil windshield helps a lot too.
Stoves can be like bikes with n+1 for the perfect combination.
Depends a bit on what kind of bikepacking trips you're planning. I can imagine that it'll be a bit cumbersome for some of teh undersaddle and triangle bags.
But if bikepacking is more touring, and you're using panniers, then a trangia is a great solution. Did a number of 2 person multiweek trips through France and Germany, and the trangia was brilliant as it was self contained, stable, multiple utensils allowing different kinds of cooking, cheap and easy to refuel. You can buy them now with a gas burner instead of meths burner
The kettle was essential for a morning brew.
For low weight, short forays into the wilderness other kit might be better suited
I've refilled gas canisters. My stove packs inside a 990ml pot along with a small canister. So I like the smallest canisters which obviously don't last that long
As the valves are not designed for long term use I refill 5 times then recycle the canister.
I mark the full weight on a new canister with permanent marker.so when I am filling it I know how full it is. Go to about 90%.
As for gas v meths? I've used both. In fact given the minimal size/weight of my White Box meths stove I have that in my toolkit bag on longer tours in case I can't get hold of gas.
I refill small gas canisters from big ones all the time. Eventually the valves will fail but its no more wear on the valve than taking it on and off your stove.
On my big trip I took 3 x 100g gas cans and bought a 250 g can to refill them from when they got low
My Trang is stove is about 50 years old (was given to me when I was 6 and had a hard life before then), they’re robust, and easy to use, but pretty big and bulky. I’ve not used mine in years (I think my nephew has had it for last 5 or 6 years) as I either use a Jet Boil (or Alpkit BruKit) if I want quick and light or a bio stove if I want something that you can actually cook food on as itMs smaller and quicker to use (and recharges my phone, etc).
If I’m going anywhere in the van I have a little BBQ with a tiny battery operated fan in the bottom to cook with which is about 50% bigger than the Trangia and faster/can be used as BBQ as well.
I think a Trangia would be great in a post apocalyptic setting as there’s little to go wrong and fuel would be easy to get, but nowadays there’s lighter and better. But depends what you want and are after.
I like mine for camping, but I use a mini gas stove for bikepacking through, it's better in almost every way except versatility. So if cooking kit also involves a chopping board or a frying pan, take a trangia. If it's heating wet things in a pot, use a stove.
I've never used the kettle, the basic kit comes with 2x pans and frying pan/lid.
Where the line between camping on a bike and bikepacking falls is subjective though.
Boil water in one, make a brew
Add beans to the pan and bring to boil put somewhere to keep warm (e.g. covered under a sleeping bag).
Fry eggs, bacon, sausages, mushrooms, potato hash, whatever.
Use 2nd pan to boil up a 2nd brew and to wash up whilst the rest of your mates look on enviously as they re-hydrate and burn readybrek in their ti mugs and stoves. Some things are worth every gram of the weight penalty.
On my big trip I took 3 x 100g gas cans and bought a 250 g can to refill them from when they got low
I can see the logic of refilling small cans at home for summer use on short trips
But why would you carry 3x 100g cans rather than 1x 250g can?
Flexibility.
If you need a Trangia, you need one. Weight and bulk is irrelevant when one needs to Trangia.
Cheaper to buy the all in one set with kettle usually.
Add a little water to reduce soot.
However; Do you need to Trangia?
Lots of cheap generic gas stoves available and gas burners (official and otherwise including for Trangia) which do the job, until they don't.
I like my Trangia for the 'experience' of using it.
For solo wanderings I actually use a mini which gets round most of the bulk comments. Non-stick frying pan is great for bacon.
No doubt Jetboils etc are far more efficient (well not for cooking bacon...)
when you're camping with mates you all cook your meals/brew tea separately? 🤔 Bit odd, certainly not how I've ever done it; being able to split the load & cooking tasks is the main benefit of not travelling solo IMO! 😂Use 2nd pan to boil up a 2nd brew and to wash up whilst the rest of your mates look on enviously as they re-hydrate and burn readybrek in their ti mugs and stoves.
A word of caution concerning Trangia kettles (though I doubt anyone can be a stupid as I was!). You will find that the lids fit so well that they can create a vacuum when pouring so that the boiling water only dribbles out which gets really frustating. Take my advice. If you are ever on a wlking holiday in the middle of Norway and you are sat on a rock filling your flask (which is being held between your ankles to stop it falling over) from a trangia kettle, never, ever, wiggle the lid to introduce some air to speed up the pour. The resulting half litre of scalding hot water that is now inside your left hand walking boot suggests it is not the best idea! Don't ask me how I know (it took 3-4 weeks before I could walk properly again)
I love my trangia for sea kayaking as it’s robust and foolproof on sandy beaches, in the wind, etc. left out in the night to be kicked over by deer or goats, etc. The weight and bulk isn’t massive and isn’t a problem in a kayak.
For bike packing a full Trang is too much weight so I usually use as Trangia Triangle (like a clickstand) with a Trangia burner. It’s light enough and packs into a small pan, etc. The speed isn’t a bother as I’m on holiday and in no rush. It’s quiet and liquid fuel is easy to manage and lest wasteful than gas.
If I want something a bit more powerful I have a load of other options from gas through to petrol stoves. The Triangia Triangle usually wins though. Other meths stoves are available too… some are home made, others expensive and light but none is better than the Trang burner.
I'm not worried about a little extra weight. Maybe I'm "camping on a bike" as much as I'm bikepacking. And I like to cook 🙂
There's probably 10kg to lose from my own heft before I can really start to gram count. I like to cook. 🙂 which should also say "I like to eat" 🙂
The trangia triangle is already on my radar as light weight alternative. Maybe a future purchase.
"Add a little water" : do we mean add a little water to the trangia burner itself?
“Add a little water” : do we mean add a little water to the trangia burner itself?
To the methylated spirit in the burner yes.
Experiment to get your own mix right but I would go between 1:20 and 1:10. It's interesting how much you can add though before it's hard to get a good burn.
Only once in your burner too, I've never premixed and added to the trangia bottle.
Get a titanium twig stove. Great for cooking, and having a focal fire. They weight very little. They do leave a sticky black mess to your mug/pot. I like mine though.
I also have a mini trangia, I also like this, works fine for me when bike packing.
The main issue with gas stoves is the collection of 1/3 full gas cannisters you end up with.
The main issue with gas stoves is the collection of 1/3 full gas cannisters you end up with.
hence my use of a refiller gadget
the good thing about trangias is their simplicty and robustness. They just work, your pots don't fall over. Nothing to go wrong
For hiking bivvy not biking I use a Trangia Triangle, a sheet of lightweight foil as a windbreak with a titanium pan; I use bio-ethanol rather than meths, no soot at all.
Used down to about -6C with no issues but need a match/lighter rather than a fire steel unless priming with a bit of cotton wool.
For day hikes I tend towards gas as it's much faster to get a brew but for when I'm just laid out in my bag relaxing I love the Trangia.
Simple to use, nice and quiet, and I love the smell as it hots up.
the pans get covered in soot
Its the purple dye in meths that creates the soot - if using abroad you can buy cleaner spirit - 'Alcol a bruler' in France for instance - that isnt methelateted so doesn't smell or create soot.
Here you can get cans of alcohol gel to use in place of the spirit burner that are cleaner and more pleasant
you’ll be waiting a long time for water to boil with an open pan.
What do you think the frying pan is for?!
The kettle is a better experience. Quicker, neater, easier to pour, but you can definatly do without it, as you can use the frying pan as a pot lid.
Ive used a few options, ive got a fleet of pocket rockets, but i always return to the Trangia.
A pocket rocket might be lighter, but by the time youve included the pot, and a windbreak, and a paving slab as a flat surface to put it on so it doesnt topple over it isnt worth it to me.
When bivying once, i took just the kettle, the burner and three tent pegs. Spike the pegs to hold the kettle, and pop the burner underneath. Worked well!
I also add a little water to meths to reduce soot build up, and any soot you do get just wipes off.
Though i tend to use bioethanol now. doesnt stink, doesnt taste bitter if you get it on your fingers. burns well. Great stuff.
Dont lose the litle yellow bag. Meths eats aluminium i found. Went to boil my kettle, and by the time it was boiling, it was empty. Lots of little pin prick holes in the bottom of the kettle.
My kettle is a different shape to that! Which is good as it then holds a gas burner inside just fine. I then don't need to carry the frying pan. You need to work out what combination works for what situation.. I use my Trangia kit all the time, I just don't use the meths burner as it takes too long for my needs/tastes
You can bio ethanol for stoves here it not that expensive.
I don't like the gas stoves because no matter what way you cut it they're a waste of resources - steel and oil.
Out of interest how does refilling work surely at best you get is equalisation of pressure?
If you refill into 250 into 3 100s you must end up with three little canisters almost full and a Fourth larger one with some left in it that you are immediately chucked in a bin?
Flexibility.
But how is carrying multiple 100g canisters more flexible?
Carrying a single 100g cannister on short trips between which you top up at home from a big can makes perfect sense, it's substantially cheaper and less weight to carry. But you're not explaining why you carry 3x 100g cannisters (which will weigh quite a bit more than 1x 250g).
Surely you could use IPA as fuel? I don't think you can buy it in shops but it's widely available on eBay.
Out of interest how does refilling work surely at best you get is equalisation of pressure?
As far as I know the adapter simply connects two canisters, one upside down on top of the other so the pressure is the same in both. Then I guess the liquid just dribbles down under gravity. I guess you could warm the top one gently with your hands, that will push the liquid down into the bottom one, and if you let go gas would bubble. back up and then repeat if it's taking too long.
But you’re not explaining why you carry 3x 100g cannisters (which will weigh quite a bit more than 1x 250g).
If you are using bikepacking style luggage strapped to your bike you might need more small items instead of one large one - it's not like packing a rucksack.
It does need a pressure differential to refill cans - but the top one is the full one and is upside down - so the pressure differential forces liquid gas thru until it equalizes. An empty can is at lower pressure than a full one tho a few degrees of temp difference makes it easier. Ie top one in your pocket for a few mins, bottom one outside. When I do it in the house I put the empty in the freezer for a few mins but then you can overfil
Its nothing to do with gravity. its the pressure differential
it does not work like molgrips says - you do not get bubbles back up at all.
I have done this for decades. Easy and safe. its no difference to screwing and unscrewing cans from the stove. Eventually valves will fail. I had one refuse to put gas into the stove after refilling, I have had one fail open slightly. these were cans that had been refilled many times . beware over filling.
I think sometimes people think the kettle boils faster as they don't compare like with like and compare boiling the kettle with a comparatively small amount of water in it with a pan with more. Heat a pan with say 500ml in it (and the frying pan flipped as a lid and a kettle with the same volume of water and I doubt there is much in the boil times.
Its the purple dye in meths that creates the soot – if using abroad you can buy cleaner spirit – ‘Alcol a bruler’ in France for instance – that isnt methelateted so doesn’t smell or create soot.
If that's true, you can remove the dye by leaving it out in the sun for a while as U light breaks it down.
Surely you could use IPA as fuel? I don’t think you can buy it in shops but it’s widely available on eBay.
Doesn't work. IPA is C3H7OH, meths is ethanol C2H5OH. It's more energy dese but boils at a higher temperature so you're not getting as much vaporization. On top of that it's a bigger molecule so produces a lot more soot. Maybe someone could design a stove that ran on IPA but it would probably look more like those primus stoves with the pre-heat tube.
n.b. on both points "Meths" is Ethanol, the name comes form when it used to be spiked with Methanol to make it undrinkable without going blind. Turned out this wasn't sufficient a deterrent so it's now just ethanol, water, bitrex and colouring.
I know that, that wasn't the question.
On my big trip I took 3 x 100g gas cans and bought a 250 g can to refill them from when they got low
The question was why carry 3x 100g cans on a trip and presumably refill them in a Carrefour car park, rather than just cook from the 250g cannister?
But how is carrying multiple 100g canisters more flexible?
When its cold in the morning I can put a full can on for best pressure, when its warm in the evening put the almost empty one on to cook tea. Better gas pressure when its hot or the can is full. Trying to make coffee off an almost empty one in the morning is too hard for me. I can run two cans out completely then have the third one for use while waiting to buy a 250 g one. Use the 250 g one to refill the two empties and to top up the part full one. or use the last bit of gas in the 250g one to cook my tea depending on how much is left in the third can
It just gives more combinations you can use and makes sure you always have a full one to make sure the first thing in the morning coffee was made with a full can
I have done this for years. yes its a small weight penalty but the 3x 100g gives more flexibility and is similar weight to a 250 and a 100g . Refills work better from a large to a small can i always carry at least 2 cans in case one fails
I only do this for long trips tho - short ones is 2x100g as that will last me 10 days
Out of interest how are you judging 'full' without scales? Condensatation on the can?
Shake it to check for air gap and experience after doing it for years. You can only overfill if you have a big temp differnce. I have checked on scales so i know whats about right. Too full and you get liquid gas out when you connect to the stove for a double check. You need a gap for expansion in heat
Out of interest how are you judging ‘full’ without scales? Condensatation on the can?
Not sure how TJ does it but I do the float check. Some cans even have markings on the side for this.
thisisnotaspoon
n.b. on both points “Meths” is Ethanol, the name comes form when it used to be spiked with Methanol to make it undrinkable without going blind.
Eh? If meths is ethanol, how can you spike ethanol with methanol?
Finbar
Eh? If meths is ethanol, how can you spike ethanol with methanol?
Methylated spirits used to be ethanol with methanol added to make it poisonous. The ethanol (or 'spirit') was methylated by adding the methanol.
They used to put enough methanol in to make it poisonous, so the manufacturer (and end user) didn't have to pay the duty that, for example would be paid on a bottle of vodka.
The rate of duty is currently £28.74 per litre of ethanol:
Alcohol duties - Office for Budget Responsibility
However, being poisonous was not always a sufficient deterrent for some people when they hit rock bottom.
My brother used to work for the Department of Social Security - he said that the staff in the benefits office would notice a client's hair had suddenly turned white, and they looked worse than normal for a few weeks. Then the staff wouldn't see them any more, and maybe read about their death in the paper.
Very sad.
Hence, as thisisnotaspoon says above, meths now just ethanol, water, bitrex and colouring.
Bitrex: Wikipedia article on Denatonium
Aha! I thought methanol and methylated spirits were the same thing (you can tell I never was any good at chemistry). Thanks for explaining.
Duplicate post
I love my Trangia, but it's very slow to boil water, terrible in even the slightest wind, heavy and bulky.
I've got a Kelly kettle and a twig stove which are good in certain conditions, but 95% of the time I use the Trang. That's for backpacking, bikepacking and moto touring. Honestly don't care about weight bulk or boiling time - I put the kettle on, pack up my stuff or go for a poo or something, and it's boiling. At work, I use the 27 almost daily to reheat veggie slop.
I use 99% alcohol metílico which I suppose is meths, and can be bought in any small supermarket in Spain - it's with the cleaning products. It works okay, needs to get properly hot before putting the simmer ring on, otherwise it goes out. Alcool de bruler in France works sufficiently well, but ISTR it worked better on British purple meths, forrin stuff burns cooler, faster, or sootier, depending on what it is.
Its possible to cut the inside holey base section of a Trangia and the corresponding vertical square holey air vent section then fit a Whisperlite inside so the pipe to the fuel bottle passes through the Trangia wall. Stove and everything packs inside the Trangia too. Burns any fuel, no soot and fast as chips.
Genius !
Its possible to cut the inside holey base section of a Trangia and the corresponding vertical square holey air vent section then fit a Whisperlite inside so the pipe to the fuel bottle passes through the Trangia wall. Stove and everything packs inside the Trangia too. Burns any fuel, no soot and fast as chips.
There was a fitting kit for that, like there still are for Trangia gas burners. I have a friend with one.
There was a fitting kit for that, like there still are for Trangia gas burners. I have a friend with one
I didn't know that... I did mine with scissors in the early 90's at Outward Bound Eskdale....
After years with Trangia, I keep it as the best solution in windy conditions, but the original alcohol burner is not perfect. Adding 10% methanol to the Ethanol and no more soot 🙂
Still not good enough so I got my selves the original Trangia version of the Optimus Nova. Just fantastic! Nothing works better. I tried the butane burner, and that works well in the summer. Two good solutions! 🙂
But I want more 🙂 When it is not windy I would like to be able to use the stove without the windshield, and I do not want to make great modification of the Trangia. You may find some photos of some solutions in this Norwegian tread: https://www.fjellforum.no/topic/46396-det-ideelle-trangia-oppsettet/#comment-547862
Still not sure about what is the best solution. Do you have more ideas?