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Does it just require you to set it to a certain level of resistance and work out your power from the speed and HR?
yes set it to level 4 (eg) the trainer in the drop down shoud be listed as minoura mag 1,2,3,4. select 4 and you're on.
Given that its 10 years old, how does TR know what the actual level of resistance is - given that it might not perform as well as a new model?
shouldn't change too much. However it will be repeatable if not accurate.
If your trainer is 10W out from a new one. your FTP (virtual power) will be low, but any increase will show as an increase. this won't be an issue unless you compare virtual power to another power measurement.
We've a fairly old Minoura, if you check on the TR site there's a supported list of turbo trainers - select make then model and it will tell you. Basically TR have categorised the power levels at each resistance setting but without testing each and every machine it's a best guess. What you need to do is make sure that each session is using as close to the same set up as possible: tyre pressure, etc., then the figures will be consistent.
The power is worked out from the resistance level you chose (and tell the TR software) and the speed that the rear wheel is turning. So you need a speed sensor, something like the Garmin speed/cadence sensor is common. You find a resistance setting that allows you to use the full range of gears but also that feels about right when compared to being out on the road.
Excellent. Thanks Tom. I've read on here about keeping metrics all consistent e.g. trainer position, tyre pressure etc. so you're right. I shouldn't worry as I'm only looking to assess my improvement on the same setup.
By way of return, can I suggest that no matter how non-cycling they are, sweatbands work really well on an intensive workout when grabbing a towel isn't an option.
Not looking forward to the 20 min FTP test. Any suggestions how to get through it?
Ditto Whitestone. Thanks
Not done the 20min test but have done the 8min one. The tests have a good warmup period which includes a couple of short near max output intervals, use these to get an idea of what you can maintain for the test interval(s). It's common to set off too hard then fade.
There's a skill in performing tests and without doing them (or dry runs) then you don't get good at them. This is why you see people report high improvements for their first few tests, it's not so much that they have got fitter just that they are better at doing the tests. They will have got fitter/stronger as well but it won't account for all the increase.
You can view how others have done on any given workout so have a look at the tests and below the description is a "most recent first" list of logged sessions. Look at the power output for the test interval, what you are looking for is a generally flat line, it doesn't matter how far above or below the target line it is, it just needs to be flat.
Have a dry run or two to see how you get on then have a rest and go for it. Don't worry about your absolute level of power output, the point of the test within TR is to tell the software how it should adjust each workout to your personal level. If you get it right then each of the subsequent workouts will *just* be doable.
The advantage of not doing the test before is that you'll see big gains when you re-do the test the second and third time, as you'll know how to pace it.
This is great for motivation as you can see improvement.
Not looking forward to the 20 min FTP test. Any suggestions how to get through it?
I much prefer it to an 8 minute test. As a TR blog points out most people find it difficult to go hard enough on an 8 minute test.
Over 20 minutes you can settle in to a nice rhythm and gradually up the power. Of course it should be a fairly even effort but you don't need to stress about hitting X Watts right from the first minute. Other positives are that you only need to do one hard effort not two as with an 8 minute test. If you are already doing bread and butter 2x20's every week then it is only half of one of these sessions too 😀 Basically it is all mental. Having some 2x20's under your belt help with the mental aspect I would say.
Having said all that if it is your first test then the 8 minute one is less intimidating and at least gives you a starting point to try some 2x20 sessions then retest with a 20 minute test...
By way of return, can I suggest that no matter how non-cycling they are, sweatbands work really well on an intensive workout when grabbing a towel isn't an option.
I have succumbed to a sweat band when doing turbo work on a TT bike in an aero position. Horrid without it as all the sweat just pours into my eyes.
Not looking forward to the 20 min FTP test. Any suggestions how to get through it?
Keep a sick bucket handy? 🙂
Lots of good advice above. I'd add that it doesn't really matter that much initially. You can always tweak the value up and down manually as you start doing sessions and getting a feel for your threshold (it should be the max you can sustain for an hour.) If you don't already know then read up on IF and TSS as these will give you an idea of how hard a workout should be.
I think I got my initial FTP test about right, there's only been one workout that I've struggled to do everything asked of me - not that the others have been easy 😳 . I struggled with the individual leg exercises partly because I'd never done them before; partly because I hadn't got a setup suitable to me and partly because one leg is significantly weaker than the other.
I'm going to do one of the free form workouts tonight to practice ILT drills, it won't be a full workout, I'll practice on form rather than power which will be easier if I don't have a target graph in front of me 😕
I find the prompts/instructions quite useful as they make you think about how you pedal and your efficiency (or lack of it), my cadence is creeping up already after just two weeks. Before I started I'd be bouncing around on/off the saddle if I was trying to pedal at my current rate.
Again, thanks for the advice. Not really done much structured stuff on the turbo so far and with limited time, I badly need to train smarter. Not done 2 x 20 mins but done a couple of Sufferfests (Local Hero and The Rookie) which include shorter intervals. The problem with those are its perceived effort as opposed to measured effort. Looking at those drills on Strava shows that they can vary depending on how I feel, set up etc.
Just started sweet spot base Low Vol 2.
Found Ebbetts hard, far harder than they suggest. Maybe Im just not used to this sprint then back to FTP. I guess good one for racing? Give me Carson any day of the week;)
Bearing in mind all my failures, I'm racing on Saturday - a 1hr crit - and Sunday - a 4hr mtb Enduro. So, continue with plan tonight, or rest?
I'd rest, or maybe just do a recovery half hour. You aren't going to gain any fitness in time for the weekend by exercising hard tonight, but you may compromise your races if you still aren't at 100%. Why risk it?
As an update on my woes, TR also suggested that the sudden jump in intensity was due to an inadvertent change in trainer resistance. They certainly haven't changed the power curve for my trainer. The uploading/logging in issue was a bit more of a problem, but their excellent support team have come up with a workaround for now and are working on a permanent solution.
Kryton, if it was me I'd just do one of the warm up sessions. Something to get your legs working but not taxing anything much and gets you going again with no potential of fail.
Good luck with the weekend.
I'm back into the mtb plan again after a road bike crash stopped me being able to push for a week or so. Jobs done, onto Torbert tomorrow. Week 3 looks interesting..
Thanks both. I ended up with Sufferfest Elements of style. 40 mins with an easy ramp up with some 2 x 8 sweet spot and a coupe of ramps up to some over FTP 1 minute pushes at about 120%.
Done & dusted.
I may have found my problem - my turbo setup includes the roller just touching the tyre, then one full turn of the knob. I never touch it after this as I just lift the bike on an off for winter duties. I have a feeling I have changed the tyre and not reset the roller, as it was pushing on the tyre more than that almost 2 full turns Prior warmups felt like lactic recovery before a couple of minutes whereas tonight didnt stress my legs at all. Here's hoping...
tried to do avalanche spire tonight, third day on the trot, following FTP on tuesday, group intervals last night, i jacked it after 25 mins, legs were totally shot...
Slide Mountain for me, enough to wake everything up before rest tomorrow and crit on Saturday.
Is a crit on the Saturday not going to leave you fatigued for Sunday?
Yes. It's a case of unfortunate timing, but it's paid for and they are priority 3 races so winning isn't important.
Anyone tried doing TR workouts on the road?
I have always wanted to try combine the saturday TR ride into my "out in the real world" sunday ride! 2 Birds one stone...
SO had a go sticking Kaweah in my garmin as a workout.
What a waste of time that was, its a real pain on the road!!!
Its really hard keeping power constant & starring at ur Garmin whole time is pretty dangerous.
Only advantages I can see are don't have to do 2 wknd rides to keep to plan. Also higher power seems more achievable on the road, dunno why, just is??
Anyone else tried this or do you just keep your outside rides away from TR's plans?
Anyone else using a kinetic inride power meter? Had some really odd behaviour last night. Halfway through striped last night and couldnt hit my interval targets. Struggled for a couple, stopped to check everything was still right and then turned inride off. Hit everything fine. Turned it back on and fine. It was as though it was registering about 50% power. No wonder I was struggling to get to, let alone hold 320w for a minute...
Anyone tried doing TR workouts on the road?
Only if they are simple intervals and a there is a hill of a constant gradient of the same time duration. Maybe also sprint efforts too but again you need the right road. We have a nice 6 minute climb of almost constant gradient so it is easy to select one gear then spin up at a given power 6 min intervals. Anything more intricate is easier to do on the turbo. There are some nice, long constant off road climbs in South Wales we used to do for 20 minute intervals but nothing like that where I am now!
I sacked the inride off after a few months of unpredictability.
I've been missing out the weekend workout if I ride outdoors both days - I figure that, whilst it may not be structured training (whether it be an on or off-road blast on my own or rides with friends), it's more representative of the rides that I'm actually training for i.e. short course XC racing (or beating my friends uphill). I occasionally go for Strava segments on the commute as a surrogate for some interval training but, again, it's not structured.
@legolam - not sure which plan you are following, I'm on Sweet Spot base low volume 1, I shifted the plan forward one day to leave the weekends free. Obviously not really an option for some of the other plans
I sacked the inride off after a few months of unpredictability.
What problems did you have?
Sometimes it worked fine. I think its quite accurate too (based upon subsequent readings with a Kickr). That said I spent far too much time faffing. It would fail to convey any power readings to my mac despite 'excellent' signal, either at the start of a workout or occasionally part way through. Sent it back to Merlin who passed it on to maker/ importer. They decided it was faulty and offered me a refund.
dirtyrider - Member
Is a crit on the Saturday not going to leave you fatigued for Sunday?
Did well in the crit but tweaked a glute. Felt fine this morning but went twang during the Thetford MTb series so I DNF'd as its early I'm my year. I have to say I was tired to, DNF'd at 24 of 40 so not great although my strength is a consistent pace to the end so I may have made up places. But it wasn't a target race so no point causing more damage. Hurts to walk up stairs!
@whitestone - I'm on the Sweet Spot Base 2 (low volume) plan at the moment, but I also commute by bike (20 miles round trip) 4 or 5 days a week and that + 2 turbo sessions + weekend rides is enough for my little body to take!
@legolam - fair enough, I'm not commuting at the moment, either been icy or storms round here for the last few weeks so have been lazy and getting the train 😳 I'll build the commuting up slowly over the coming months but use it as zone 1/2 riding, almost recovery rides.
Part of me is dropping the third workout per week solely so I don't get too fixated on "training" to the exclusion of fun. I'm a 32 year old girl with a full time job - I'm not going to be troubling Victoria Pendleton or Annie Last any time soon. I sometimes need to remember that this is my hobby and, as serious as it feels at the time, winning the regional XC series does not make me an elite athlete!
@legolam - just wait till you get to my age - it takes everything you've got to prevent the downward slope becoming a precipice! 😯
20 min test for me today. Started a test yesterday, but made it a recovery session as clearly hadn't recovered from thursdays bonk!
7% increase in FTP. which i'm pretty happy with. 😀
i'm moving off a training plan and going freestyle!
going to base the week around one threshold session (4x10, 3x15, 2x20) and one under over session. any one got any good suggestions for under over sessions?
Nice improvement, check out Mills, as well as the first 40 minutes of Local Hero
For under/over sessions check out Sill, Picket Guard, Emerson, Palisade, Tioga. There's loads on there with various combinations of duration. Or you could just roll your own like [url= http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/66144-hj-ou-3 ]this one[/url] using the workout creator.
plenty to be getting on with. cheers 😀
ANy recommondations for a heart rate monitor?
Sounds as if the garmin I was going to buy isn't the most reliable!
Some people complain about the garmin strap, I've not had any issues. Most with issues seem to be happy replacing the strap part with a Polar one, so maybe just get the Polar bluetooth one unless you need it to be ANT+.
I'd also have a look at the Viiiiva strap or the Wahoo TICKR if I was buying now. The former definitely has ANT+ bridging to Bluetooth which could be very handy for TrainerRoad on iOS, the latter I think may well add support soon.
By the way, anyone using a RFLKT+ with bridging with TR?
I've had the Garmin strap for nearly two years and it's never missed a heart beat 😆 I haven't even changed the original battery yet.
About to do Ericsson ...
I've got the original large plastic HR strap from Garmin, must be into its 4th winter and again its been excellent.
The issues seem to be with the soft strap and sweat build up on the sensors.
The original ones do last well, I've still one going strong but properly manky around the contacts. The place mine have failed is where is the strap slots in, the plastic splits, only after a few years use though. Also find the new straps a lot quicker to pick up the HR.
I've been told that you should disconnect the transmitter pod after use and wash the strap. Mine is an elasticated fabric strap so not sure which one that is - old/new?
I've had the premium strap for 2 years now, it does give some odd readings if you let it go too long without cleaning.
Mine gets washed every dozen or so uses, one battery change after about 18 months, it's been very reliable.
So after three months following sweet spot plans TR dropped me off just in time for my two crits, felt much better prepared going into them certainly an improvement on last year.
Easy week then on to Intermediate Build...
First workout that I've failed to complete tonight 🙁 Just felt really hard work and had to ease off about a minute in to the last effort. The next two workouts look just as hard - eek!
It was me with the HR issues, pretty much sorted with washing and ECG gel. I would still buy one if its the cheapest but from someone with good warranty support. I have actually given up wearing it for performance/mental reasons...