[Closed] Titanium - worth it?

Thanks for all the feedback. A Pegasus would have been ideal, being a fan of Singular bikes.

First addition Cotic Soda here - bike has been hammered for years now with no ill effects. The ride is just amazing - I use it for XC and light DH. Also still looks brand new despite having crashed more times than a ZX spectrum. Maybe I'm just lucky but will be buying Ti forever now - thats if I ever need to - bike for life and all that ;).

Perhaps avoid Lynskey though - they do seem to pop up with cracks quite regularly on here.

oldboy - Member

I've ridden Ti frames exclusively for over 15 years without any problems, but I'm only 130lbs wet through. I wonder; are all the cracked frames ridden by heavyweights?

No, I'm in my 60's and weigh 10 stone so my Soda should not have cracked. It was a second incarnation (pre Lynsky)and to say the least I was very disappointed. Got a Soul frame as a replacement as it was just over 2 years old but have since sold it.
Saying that I have also had steel and alloy frames crack on me. Now running a Whyte 29C so wondering how the plastic will hold up!

OTOH, I couldn't have afforded my Soda if some kind person hadn't cracked it 😀

hummerlicious

What is the Kinesis like?

I just read the review in WMB and with the right spec it sounds a cracking bike - is yours the 29er version?

Yeah it's the 29er medium size, I had the FF29 aluminium version before which I loved, but I was lucky enough to use the prototype Sync last year for the Twentyfour12. I fell in love with it and basically had the FF29 till the production ones turned up.

It's a slightly different beast to the FF29, it's slacker, shorter out the back and a lot more comfortable to ride. I've just done 12 hour mixed pairs on it at the Bonty this weekend and I reckon I know it pretty well now.

The only trouble is I also have a Cove Hummer and I can't really see that I'll ride that much now, the Sync really is perfect for me. It handles all the tight twisty stuff fine and doesn't seem to mind being thrown down stuff like a loony, which is just as well because it wants you to ride it like that!

Isn't carbon more appealing from an engineering POV anyway?

The only thing that would make me get a ti frame over steel is looks. That bare ti grey/silver is a thing of beauty. If I ever find a Ti Charge Blender for cheap I'm having it.

On a Ti456 bought from here (Lynskey 1st version, so obviously I'll die or worse) - have to say it's doing everything I hoped for, light fast and not noticeably less comfy than my old Superlight (only roots round here though, no rocks). I'd been riding my skinny Duster and thought something lighter and as comfy might be all the bike I need, and so far it looks like I'm right.

hummerlicious

Do you reckon that the Kinesis would be a good 29er comparison to my current 456Ti (Lynskey 2nd edition)? It's just now with other buddies getting 29er's and seeing how much less effort they're putting in to cover the same ground as me I'm erring now towards one.

After looking at weights it turned out that a decent 853 frame wasn't much heavier so went for steel instead as a replacement.

This is what I don't get: it's barely lighter than steel, and costs a lot more to buy and repair if/ when it cracks. Sure, steel can rust but that's what paint's for.

Ti frames are like anything else, can be great, can be a waste of £.. I've ridden some sublime ti frames as well as some awful ones. Builder / brand rep and back up counts for a lot, ie warranty peace of mind and being sure they've done something useful with the material so it actually offers more than just a few 100g saving over a good steel frame.

Just get a good one, then you'll know. Have had four, still got two. This over almost twenty years. I have only ever cracked steel and ally frames, mind you I ride like an old school wimp.

I got 2 Ti bikes now and love them - similar ride to HQ Steel but without the paint/rust issues 🙂

My new Kinesis SYNC

[url= http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3763/9354750115_fbc197d0e2_n.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3763/9354750115_fbc197d0e2_n.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/bikeystuff/9354750115/ ]Time to Head Home[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/bikeystuff/ ]FoxyRider[/url], on Flickr

and my GF Ti Prototype:

[url= http://www.kinesisbikes.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/bikes-gfti-prototype.jp g" target="_blank">http://www.kinesisbikes.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/bikes-gfti-prototype.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.kinesisbikes.co.uk/products/ ]GF Ti Prototype[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/bikeystuff/ ]FoxyRider[/url], on Kinesis UK

Did JOGLE on the GF Ti last year and was perfect 🙂

I got 2 Ti bikes now and love them - similar ride to HQ Steel but without the paint/rust issues

In my experience, steel bikes need repainting after about 15 years. I can live with that.

In my experience, steel bikes need repainting after about 15 years. I can live with that.

That's fine - I like Ti but it's not for everyone - what ever works for you mate 🙂

In my experience, steel bikes need repainting after about 15 years. I can live with that.

That's fine - I like Ti but it's not for everyone - what ever works for you mate

I don't dislike Ti, I just fail to see the point of it as a frame material.

foxyrider your road bike looks lush 🙂 exactly how I'd want mine to look if I had the cash!

@_Tom - thx mate - she's such a good all-rounder - I cycle to work on her, great winter bike and unless I'm going balls out fab for riding around Dartmoor hills with the Apex groupset 🙂

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Yes, definitely worth it!

I started with a Ti road bike from Qoroz. I raced it for a couple of seasons and absolutely love it!

I then suggested a Ti cross bike was a good idea, so ended up with the prototype, made to my size, for testing and 'sharpening up' another great bike that has been trashed about Three Peaks Cyclocross and a couple of seasons of normal cross races. I use it as a mountain bike, on mountain bike terrain and routes.

Last year I was challenged into doing Mayhem 24 hrs solo and called Qoroz: HELP! I have entered this race and I don't have a MTB... So I was loaned their Ti 29er HT demo model.

Two weeks after handing it back after the race I was suffering with such extreme withdrawal symptoms, I bought and built my own. It is an absolutely awesome bike! Fast, comfortable, strong... I have never had to worry about anything on that bike and I absolutely love it. For as much as I love my road and cross bikes, the 29er tops them all. Best bike ever!

In my view Ti is the ideal material for off road bikes because of its strength and weight.

Above all, they look damn sexy in brushed bare Ti 😀

@b r - yes I reckon the two would go well together, as I said earlier I have a Cove Hummer so a similar kind of thing to your 456Ti, just beware or you may end up with the same dilemma as me and you might end up ignoring your original bike.....

I sold my 26er HT and then waited a few weeks for the SYNC so I couldn't neglect it LOL 😉

I've exclusively ridden my Kona Hei Hei since 1997 and couldn't think what to replace it with. I give it a Scothbrite and new decals annually and it looks good as new.
I don't have the engineering background or riding skill to definitively say one material is better than the other but it's made me proud to ride it for 16 years so it's got to represent value for money (better value than buying a whole new bike because the wheels are a tiny bit bigger - IGMC).

Not for me. Had serious BAS for a Ti frame for 15 years.

Finally succumbed and bought a Soda (hey the Soul is just good the Soda must be even better, right?)

Well, wrong. Turns out I prefer the way steel rides. Hey ho. At least I managed to sell it on easily enough and not lose too* much.

*this is of course subjective...

Hey Gunz, check out what vintage Kona Hei Hei Ti frames are going for on Retrobike Forum - about £600 at the last check. I don't think 15 year old carbon/steel/alu frames are going to retain that sort of value!

Oldboy - that's quite pleasing but to be honest if I had a quid for how many posts I've seen here and there from people who regret selling their Hei Hei, I'd have more than £600.
It's being lined up for my Son when my knees give out 🙂

Gunz, I wasn't suggesting you sell it, just trying to make a point about the longevity of Ti. I only sold mine because I wanted discs and the Litespeed Ti hardtail I have now is awesome. BWTF do I know!

I love the Brodie holeshot I brought off here, I couldn't have justified a new frame but when one came up Sh I thought what the hell 😀
Stiff but soft if that makes sense

I'd go with stiff but soft too 😉

My soda recently cracked.

I appreacite plenty are still going strong but I've fallen out of love with ti for bikes.

I've had a Ragley Ti for about two and half years and it's been ridden a lot in the UK and abroad, I'm around 11.5-stone. I absolutely love the bike, it's the best frame I've ever ridden and always puts a smile on my face. It's been used in the UK, the Pyrenees, Morocco, raced in a 24-hour solo etc.

I'd always have said that it was a brilliant balance of lightness, suppleness and toughness with brilliant geometry. Then, after two years, the top-tube cracked just behind the headtube. No problem I thought, Lynskey's lifetime warranty will mean it's returned to original condition. I had a lot of faith in Lynskey's excellent reputation for customer service, I've even stood up for them on here.

I spoke to Hotlines, the importer and they told me that the frame would be returned in original spec. It went off to the US and came back five weeks later with an undersized, curved downtube. The original was bi-ovalised so it braced the headtube at the top and the bottom bracket, the new one is also mildly bi-ovalised, but considerably smaller section and barely larger than the one on my Lynskey-made road bike.

The seat-tube had also been sleeved down to 27.2mm - actually very slightly larger than 27.2mm - which effectively rendered useless a £180 Lynskey Ti seatpost, a Thomson and a £250 Reverb.

The frame I now own, which originally cost me £1200 looks awful and it is visibly less substantial around the bottom bracket and the headtube - same size more or less as my Lynskey-made Planet X road bike, much smaller than the original. If it had been built like this in the first place, I'd never have bought it.

Hotlines, to be fair, are somewhat stuck in the middle of this as the warranty is with Lynskey. Lynskey's attitude, apparently, is that they've done what they're required to under the terms of their warranty.

I've actually [b]offered to pay my own money [/b]towards either having the frame reinstated to its original spec or at least have a proper over-sized downtube fitted and possibly an oversized headtube. Lynskey's take is that the original design was 'flawed' and they won't fit a straight downtube for that reason, yet at the same time, in their loft section, they were clearing out what was visibly obviously a Ragley Ti frame with a straight down-tube complete with a full lifetime warranty. Go figure.

The last communication I had with Hotlines said that Lynskey would contact me direct which they have never done despite several e-mails. The only thing they will do is exchange my 31.6mm Lynskey post for a 27.2mm one, which still leaves me with a useless Reverb and a surplus Thomson. To be fair, they offered to resized the insert to 31.6mm, but then also told me this would weaken the frame in that area. Nice dilemma.

Essentially I now have a £1200 frame which is not what I paid for, looks like a dog's dinner and, I don't believe, will ride in the same way. I look at the repaired frame and want to cry.

The irony is that if Lynskey had simply fitted an oversized downtube to the standard spec and left the seat-tube alone, I'd have been ecstatic, I would have said that Lynskey's customer service was excellent and would probably have bought a Lynskey cross bike to go with my road bike and the Ragley.

Can't say that now. Lynskey won't talk to me. Hotline can't do anything apparently. Even though I've offered to pay money to have the frame sorted out, nothing. Based on that, I can't say that I'd ever buy a Lynskey product or Lynskey-made frame from another brand again.

Rides brilliant, breaks after two years, comes back in a different spec. Go figure. I'm kind of disillusioned and anyone who has a Ragley Ti might want to take note and, if they have to use the warranty, check what they're actually going to have returned to them. And good luck actually getting Lynskey to talk to you.

Still love mine, i did break the fork though 🙁

[img] [/img]

Still looks like new after 4 years.

I'm still trying to suss out Ti. I'm currently hitting Glentress Black each week for 'a laugh'. It's a test for any bike, let alone a hard tail, and it's a fairly painful rider experience. But the ride quality is excellent. Considering the harshness of the trail, the only difficulty comes from having to stand through the numerous rough sections. Other than that its a lively yet smooth and planted ride. Well, as smooth as any hardtail ride could be on GT Black.

Would I go back to steel or carbon? I've had carbon frames begin to de-laminate, and steel has a weight that's expensive to mitigate, so Ti solves both of those issues. The raw frame looks great too. If I ever grow bored of owning a hard tail, I'd be open to any sort of frame material, but only if the design and ride was good, so in that respect, I haven't been converted to Ti. That said, it makes for a spectacular, brilliantly riding, compliant bike. The frame's actual design goes a long way to achieve that of course.

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scotroutes - Member
Is it worth it?

I have two Ti frames I'm really happy with and they've both done thousands of miles. The wee hardtail was a cheapo from China and the tourer is a Van Nicholas, so neither represent the expensive end of the spectrum. When I was buying my El Mariachi I seriously considered the Ti version but it was £1,000 more than the steel version (i.e. 3x the cost). I just couldn't justify that sort of money. I'd consider an XACD frame though.....

Did you not also have a Lynskey-made, Ragley Ti frame? What happened to that? Assuming you're who I think you are?

Gunz, I wasn't suggesting you sell it, just trying to make a point about the longevity of Ti. I only sold mine because I wanted discs and the Litespeed Ti hardtail I have now is awesome. BWTF do I know!

Oldboy, I think you've misinterpreted my post or I haven't got my point across properly. Totally agree with what you're saying and, in a parallel universe, if I could afford a Litespeed, I'd go for it as well.
This is obviously no use to you now but the A2Z disc mount I retro fitted to the Hei Hei works perfectly, well worth keeping in mind if you're ever tempted to buy another old one.

I have owned/ridden all the below Ti frames.

Cove Hummer (Llitespeed).
Custom Ti 26er frame (XCAD).
Ragley Ti (Lynskey).
Lynskey M240.
Salsa a la Carte Ti (Lynskey).
White 19 Ti (Melin?)
On-One Tibred (Lynskey?).

All good frames and all ride slightly different. The one I like the most is the Ragley Ti and one I like the least is the Hummer. Is it worth the extra cash over steel, who knows? I've not ridden a high Steel frame but if its all riding its all good.

Now on the look out for a Titanium 29er frame to set up as a fully rigid single speed, something like the Ragley TD-1 or another Lynskey.

Then, after two years, the top-tube cracked just behind the headtube.

Sorry, meant the downtube if anyone gives a stuff. Post 24-12 solo blurry.

Sorry, meant the downtube if anyone gives a stuff. Post 24-12 solo blurry.

I did! Almost responded at the time because I couldn't see why they'd messed with the downtube... I'm appalled by how they've dealt with this problem.

It does seem to me though that titanium isn't the right material for 'hardcore hardtails', there's just too much of a durability issue. But if a manufacturer chooses to make such a bike in Ti then they should stand by their product if it fails within a reasonably short timescale.

I did! Almost responded at the time because I couldn't see why they'd messed with the downtube... I'm appalled by how they've dealt with this problem.

It does seem to me though that titanium isn't the right material for 'hardcore hardtails', there's just too much of a durability issue. But if a manufacturer chooses to make such a bike in Ti then they should stand by their product if it fails within a reasonably short timescale.

The thing is, I think Lynskey feel that they have stood by their product, but I don't think what they've done is reasonable, but what makes it really irksome is that they will not communicate with me, either during the repair process or afterwards. So much for their renowned customer service.

Like I said, I've actually offered to pay Lynskey to return the frame to its original spec or an equivalent one, because I genuinely love the bike and just want it to be what it was originally, which it currently isn't.

I've reached a point where I don't think Lynskey give a stuff about their customers and I don't have any faith that they have any intention of even engaging in a dialogue with me, let alone sorting out my frame properly.

I'm posting this mostly as a warning to other Ragley Ti owners and potential buyers of Lynskey-made frames generally. I was told by Hotlines that the frame would be repaired to the original spec unless there was a very good reason otherwise and that Lynskey understood cyclists' emotional engagement with their bikes.

Like I said, go figure.

Another Soda owner here.

it's just a lighter bendier Soul

Compared to the 853 Soul frame, its about 25% lighter, which is a big chunk, and even on a complete build it's noticeable.

I keep thinking about a Ti road frame, but I'm sufficiently weight weenie that I can't get past the weight penalty any metal frame carries over a (much cheaper) carbon one. (still not sold on the idea of carbon for crashing on big pointy rocks off road though!)

And this is what used to be my Ragley Ti frame 😕

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[quote=BadlyWiredDog ]
Did you not also have a Lynskey-made, Ragley Ti frame? What happened to that? Assuming you're who I think you are?
I did for a short while. I had an mmmbop that was great to ride but felt a bit harsh. I managed to get a decent deal on a Ti version, rode it for a few months and then decided I really, really wanted a fatbike so it was sold to fund that. Northwind still owns my old Ragley and I don't think he's broken it yet 🙂

Fingers crossed it doesn't break on him... I've had a Blue Pig, an Mmmbop and a Ti and before it cracked, the Ti was a sort of genius fusion between the others, kind of steel spring but with aluminium weight and great geometry.

I'm posting this mostly as a warning to other Ragley Ti owners and potential buyers of Lynskey-made frames generally. I was told by Hotlines that the frame would be repaired to the original spec unless there was a very good reason otherwise and that Lynskey understood cyclists' emotional engagement with their bikes.

Like I said, go figure.

Drop me a line and I'll sort you a price on a Ti456 Evo.

Or there's my (Lynskey repaired) Ragley Ti hung on the back of my bike room door. It's an 18in one with a 31.6mm seat post size.