Had a long conversation at work with those around me at work about driving standards and i made the usual complaints about BMW / Audi/ taxi drivers and how often they seem to want to kill me on cycle to and from work, and i was basically told that i was just jealous as they were nice cars. My response was that i didn't think it was, as i found other "premium" marques weren't anywhere as bad.
i felt that:
BMW and Audi 10X worse than Mercedes/ Alfa/ Volvo/ other nice cars?
DHL/ Yodel and other couriers 10X worse than Royal Mail drivers.
Drivers of fixed bed, small lorries much worse than articulated lorry drivers.
Range Rover drivers 10X worse than any other nice 4x4 driver.
Now i've probably insulted half the STW masssivem, discuss....
am i right
No. Its those kind of silly ideas that make cyclists appear to be idiots.
People make mistakes in all sorts of vehicles, in 10 years of commuting by bike I've found no correlation between vehicle type and poor driving, apart from buses.
audis and taxis are the worst, whether you're in a car or on a bike, it's always an audi or a taxi.
People who drive small cars are crap at parking, especially those who drive new style Mini's. FACT!
Can't say i've noticed any car brand more reckless/dangerous than another.
Have noticed Yodel van/wagon drivers being very courteous of late.
Yep got go agree on the Audi thing, it's a known term, Audi t**t. We reckon you must have to undergo a driving assessment at the dealership to see if you are a speeding tailgating aggressive twunt before you're allowed to buy one.
I find Taxi's are mostly quite good.
If anything, I think that some drivers of prestige cars may well think that as they drive a posh car, its like an affirmation of their ability to drive, I mean they couldn't possibly get insured otherwise!
It's probably reps and salespeople that are arsehole drivers, since they have to drive so much and are often involved in high pressure situations. Audis and BMWs are also popular cars with reps.
Simple. Confirmation bias.
Same as makes some drivers/people think cyclists are all rude, law-defying cockwombles.
A BMW driver confirmed my bias last night when I questioned why he was texting behind the wheel. "What the f's it got to do with you? Look at you, you're an f'ing state you pompous p***k" was his reply. He was a real charmer and I wasn't even in my lycra. He would have loved that.
Some taxi drivers are absolute tits, but I think that's probably just a professional driver thing.
WRT brands, I don't really find much of a correlation, though there might be - I would personally disagree that any premium brand is worse than another though. I treat everyone as a blind moron and this keeps me fairly safe.
There are, I suppose, some cars where you know the driver is an absolute idiot, for instance the kangoo done up like a 4x4 (external spare wheel, roof racks with ladders etc.) and any non-"special"/fast car done up to look fast (bodykits, big wheels)/fitted with a huge exhaust. It doesn't necessarily correlate to bad driving, a lot of people like this do genuinely value their car and show it by carefully avoiding adding unsightly bloodstains etc. to it.
As for when I am commuting by bike then it can be any vehicle that's driven badly. The Ford Fiesta overtaking a Vauxhall Astra that was overtaking me on a country lane was a recent highlight. Not a German car involved in that incident.
I've found Volvo drivers to be one of the worst. Sweeping generalisation of course but normally a bit older and buy because they are 'safe'. A lot of BMW owners at work talk about their BMW, not their car but their BMW. The sense of entitlement displayed is outstanding. Audi owners are nipping at their heels though.
their BMW, not their car but their BMW. The sense of entitlement displayed is outstanding. Audi owners are nipping at their heels though
Maybe they have 2 cars? If talking to someone in work I would say 'my x' as generally they know I have more than 1 car.
Volvo drivers YESSSS! But I say that as someone who lives in Sweden where every second car is a Volvo. Older, gold-ish S80s are right at the top of the list.
For balance, though, the last car to almost take me out was a Mazda.
My experience is that Audi drivers are the most likely to try and kill me via negligence but small van drivers (up to Transit sized) are the most likely to try and do it deliberately.
All the premier car brands are bad though - including BMW and Mercedes (although Audi do seem to be the worst). Can't say it's jealousy in my case either as we've got a BMW and a Mercedes ourselves.
Commuting across the New Forest, anyone towing a caravan regardless of vehicle. Perhaps a caravan-owner here can comment but it feels like the drivers forget that the caravan is actually wider than their car.
Glasgow black cab drivers occupy special class of bellendery all to themselves. They just do not GAF.
It's not bias - for BMW drivers it's an evidence based conclusion:
http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/697232/BMW-drivers-most-likely-break-speed-limit
My experience of cycling to work is that it's consistently Audi SUV, BMW and Range Rover drivers that are complete c0ckwombles. They mostly seem to be the personification of:
Whilst my OP was just a bit of fun and i appreciate a sweeping generalisation, I do genuinely find that if i see a BMW driver (or Audi/ taxi), i can see that they have actually seen me, they just have the attitude that they will pull out form side road or turn across my path anyway even if it is going to be close.
When it comes to van drivers, there seems to be a clear divide between whether it is clearly their company and they own the van, or if the driver is driving for a big company and its a works van and they won't be paying the insurance claim?
Whilst there is an element of confirmation bias, you must also remember that different careers (such as artic driver) or brands attract and are marketed to different types of people.
So it's perfectly possible for one brand of car to have drivers who are more aggressive, than another brand. You could argue that the way BMW markets their cars is going to attract a more aggressive driver, than Volvo for example.
The issue I mostly see doesn't appear to be agression but carelessness - certainly with the Audi drivers. With the van drivers it's more likely to be agression - certainly they're the only ones that have shouted at me to get off their roads so far!
if i see a BMW driver (or Audi/ taxi), i can see that they have actually seen me, they just have the attitude that they will pull out form side road or turn across my path anyway
I take that attitude with every vehicle will pull out in front of me regardless of make. Taking the attitude that 'its a nissan (for example), nissan drivers don't pull out in front of people' is an odd one and a dangerous way to ride.
Maybe they have 2 cars?
Alas no, certainly it's not why they talk about the 'BM'. Totally as a status symbol, like its the 80's still. Ditto 'the Audi'. I can only think of one other guy who would say 'the subaru'. Everyone else seems to say 'my car', 'my wifes car', 'the silver car' etc.
From 20 years of cycling daily in London I reckon that nowadays its Volvo and Seat driven vehicles that demonstrate the worst roadcraft. Cycling anywhere Putney/ Richmond means an almost guaranteed Volvo arm shaving or standard cut-up.
Most BMWs are driven by company car drivers who can't afford to lose their jobs, so they're usually ok.
No OP you are wrong, I've found it to be more black and greys cars.
Doesn't matter what age/make of cars they are just always black or grey
white van man here..
Some of my peers are real embarrassing.
Whenever I have been out on my road bike I've found the Rover/Jaguar driving gloves and hat in the rear window type the worst or best arm shavers!
Check out one of my earlier posts about a rover driver I overtook after setting of a speed camera on my bicycle, true story.
Channelling Brian for a minute, "It's a bit more complex than that"...
This is an old idea that's been doing the rounds since JC was a lad. Back in the late 70's my Dad would say the same about Rover drivers and at various points it's been Saab drivers, Volvo drivers etc also. BMW do tend to be overrepresented for some reason.
I'd suggest that the actual link isn't directly that they're nice cars at all - but that there's a substantial investment needed and that there is often a correlation between the drive to acquire larger salary and aggressive behavior tendencies in a variety of situations, driving being just one. Mixed in with this is the 'man on bus is loser' idea that if you're on a bike you're a pauper and automatically jealous of people driving, which is usually not correct in my experience as most bike commuters I know at least own a car and frequently a fairly nice one, but simply don't feel the need to show it off at every opportunity - possibly as they reserve such for their bikes... 🙂
Zafira drivers are by far the biggest bellends on the road by a light year.
You can guarantee that if a car cuts you up or pulls out on you or passes close its will be some fat tosser , or Mrs fat fosser or a family of fat tossers.
Shooting Zafira drivers should be a yearly event to thin out the population.
there is a BMW flatbed taxi that helps us out with uplifts on the weekends gratis. go figure.
I use the supplied cyclepaths and footpaths mostly so dont have an issue with motorists, whatever they choose to drive.
Tractor drivers on the phone HAS to be the highest percentage of phone using drivers..
I tend to find its not the make of car, it's whether there's kids on the back seat.
People doing the school run are the ones that scare me.
Buses and school pick up/drop off every time for me
The worst used to be anything with an Addison Lee sticker on it, other than that everything else was much of a muchness.
I've been most nearly killed by a driver ofor a container lorry. Van drivers generally OK. BMW drivers seem OK by me, Mercedes and Audi slightly worse.
VWs seem to be the worst, audi drivers in training with a point to prove.
I must say, I have considered this over the years and have come to the following conclusion.
In order of bad drivingness.
1. Old, knackered exec cars. (Big old b&w's and the like)
2. flat bed trucks.
3. Women driving mpv's
4. White van man.
5. Women driving audi a1's.
Clearly there will be exceptions to the rule, but.....
I commute a fair bit by bike to the City of London from Surrey. My anecdotal evidence tells me that 4x4 drivers are to be given a wide berth because they are typically limited in terms of side and rear view also they seem less aware of width of their cars and the gaps they should try or not try to make. Next it's performance cars as they do like driving fast often too fast for the conditions and can be a bit sketchy. Finally I've noticed that town drivers are more adept around bikes because they have to be, from Richmond Park onward into surrey it's considerably more dangerous, less traffic equals higher speeds and there appears to be less awareness of bikes. I don't think it's a make thing more a type of car and area thing. Except Audis which are ****wagons.
Shooting Zafira drivers should be a yearly event to thin out the population.
Whoa there! I commute on a bike and have a Zafira. Top car for fitting a bike, a kid and a Newfoundland in. Also 11st so must be the exception to your Zafira rule 😉
I've never noticed particular brands of car, van or wagon trying to kill me. Just expect them all to do something mental at any given moment and it's all good.
Round here it's definitely BMW and Audi drivers (I keep a tally). But it's all ages of those cars - the old knackered ones as well as the new sparkly ones.
It's so noticeable that my son, on his first ever road ride, commented on the fact that about 3 BMW drivers had passed either aggressively or too close (it was an unusually aggressive outing from my PoV)
As pointed out, we shouldn't be surprised - the type of person that values a more expensive car over cheaper alternatives is likely to have more 'alpha' tendencies. It's exactly what marketing departments strive to achieve.
Audi drivers - I've recently moved from Yorkshire to Scotland (which is, I'm told, the logical conclusion of Yorkshire) from one biggish city to another. Audi drivers in my old city were awful and pretty much every day on my commute some fricking Audi driver would do something that made me fear for my life. Weirdly, in Scotland, the Audi drivers don't appear to be any worse than anyone else. Notably, the road are much wider here which probably serves to reduce the number of sketchy/inappropriate/dangerous overtakes. This makes me think that a) there was definitely something about Audi drivers in my old city, and it wasn't just confirmation bias and b) the awfulness of drivers of certain car brands is not a consistent relationship, but varies depending on place, quality of roads, probably time of day, etc.
Taxi drivers and white van ****ers are awful everywhere, obviously.
That said, I've been hit by cars three times. None of those occasions was an Audi, BMW etc or a taxi. One occasion a flat bed (I was in a car for that one) and the other two were right hooks to my bike by middle aged women in mid range saloons. Not sure what conclusion I draw from that really.
Another bike commuting zafira driver here
We are saints on the road!
I'm cycling through London shortly
I shall make a mental note of any transgressions by vehicle type/brand
(not my own tho obvs)
Ime private hire taxis are the worst
Tractor drivers on the phone HAS to be the highest percentage of phone using drivers..
I noticed this when I was in Wales and Cumbria recently and find it baffling.
How do they get reception in these places?
On average I'd say BMW 1 series are definitely the most aggressively driven cars.
And I've been hit by more new Minis than any other car. (Both female drivers).
Apart from those, can't say I've seen a pattern.
