The reason you see damage from sudden rain is because the vegetation has been damaged leading to run-off that takes the soil away.
I really do wish you'd confine your comments to places you know TJ. The incidents I refer to are on ancient roads surrounded by well established fellside vegetation. I've seen 5 foot deep trenches cut overnight by rain
So why has it not happened in the past? Something has happened to allow the runoff to rip the soil away. If its an ancient structure something must have changed otherwise it would have happened before. Very simple. It might have been further up the hill, it might have been a change in the structure but something has changed for this to occur
I wish you would show some concern for the effects you have. You may be right in this particular case but you refuse to acknowledge that your actions can be detrimental in any way - both in persistent refusal to stick within the laws about access and in persistent refusal to accept that you can and will cause erosion.
Simon - your attitudes appall many of us - I just am prepared to speak out about it.
People who don't consider the whole group when riding.
People who pop into Tesco/Spar/Sainsbury/Greggs rather than a independent local shop selling the same stuff.
So why has it not happened in the past?
for all I know it may happen every decade
I wish you would show some concern for the effects you have
and how do you know it's got anything to do with me, or any other bikers for that matter ?
but you refuse to acknowledge that your actions can be detrimental in any way
most of the places where we ride are much the same now as when I started 13 years ago. As I said above, by far the worst erosion has been by sudden rain. Also, for instance on Walna Scar, erosion has removed ill thought out sanitisation to return the track to its former exciting condition (bedrock with boulders)
I just am prepared to speak out about it
from a position of deep ignorance:o)
You're a strange bunch you mtb'ers. I think your foibles and insecurities come from the fact that cycling isn't really a team sport. I would/will have a lot of fun with those of you that take yourselves far too seriously.
I think your foibles and insecurities come from the fact that cycling isn't really a team sport
do you mean 'competitive team sport' ? When I go out for a ride, I think of us as all in a kind of team together.
Not to elbow in on someone else's argument. But prolonged periods of rain generally cause much higher degrees of damage than sudden down pours.
I usually acknowledge other riders when possible and a polite return is nice and vice versa but I really hate it when I get blanked or stared at as much as someone who had just raped their dog or something.
**** off you miserable bastrds.
On my local fell used by large groups of mountain bikers, I have seen the damage, complete mess caused by riders in large numbers avoiding the correct path and either seeking 'new rad' lines, avoiding the mud or cutting corners. Some of the paths are now non useable to anyone be they bridleways, footpaths or cheeky trails, 20 riders or so in one group create havoc on some terrain, sorry but you are wrong Simon on most terrain has altered in the last 13 years, look at Longridge fell, altered massively in the last 3 years alone, riders cutting the trail in large numbers is not good. The thread was about what annoys you about mountain bikers, this is my bete noir, the ignorance of the damage that can be caused by large groups riding inplaces where the damage will not repair easily.
People who get in their car to drive to somewhere to ride when there's plenty good riding on their doorstep, they just can't be bothered with a few miles of road riding to get there.
People who spend all weekend riding their £2 grand bikes then get in the car to go to work monday to friday when its only a few miles away.
I think more people need to become "cyclists" rather than just "mountain bikers", and realise that they can use their bikes to do really useful things as well as for fun, save time and money and help out the planet as well.
SFB you'll have to make sure the group you ride with are all in a nice line just like a road biking club... 🙂
sorry but you are wrong Simon on most terrain has altered in the last 13 years, look at Longridge fell, altered massively in the last 3 years alone, riders cutting the trail in large numbers is not good
I'm talking about the places I ride, not everywhere else I cannot see. As for Longridge, I've been riding there for about 5 years. The only change I've noticed is the gully below Green Thorn which has widened from 12" to 8', but this is at right angles the the passage of bikes, so I think this is the effect of rain. I've also noticed devastation caused by felling.
SFB - You are the devil, I really don't know how you sleep at night. Riding in large groups is equivalent to genocide or abusing small kids. Are you responsible for swine flu as well?
The bitching and soap box's that seem to be on MTB forums in general.... Yes My bike, opinion and knowledge of Mountain biking is better than yours.... Oh and if you want Chocolate cake and tea after your ride.. There's a queue dont jump it!
quote]I'm talking about the places I ride, not everywhere else I cannot see
Simon, that why I chose Longridge fell not loads of people in the pics granted but this part of the fell has got loads worse due to large numbers of rider
jan
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sorry Simon but it is just irresponsible riding neither good for the fell or for mtbrs generally.
I do think people should be able to ride in a large organised groups but responsibly and with some respect for longevity of the surroundings.
Green thorn is that not a footpath? I admit to using it, Regardless opposite the farm the track to the left is now a quagmire due to overuse by bikers.
I've also noticed devastation caused by felling.
ahh yes management of the natural habitat, where has that had an ill effect on the fell?
Thank you hicksville -
Simon - as for the effect of rain - generally its damage to the vegetation from bikes, walkers and animals that means that water runoff rips the soil away. Without that vegitation damage the water runnof does not rip the soil away. Water damage does not happen in isolation - otherwise tehre would be no soil in those places
I am not suggesting you should stop taking the groups out - I think that is a positive thing - just think about the damage that [i]can[/i] occur and figure that into your route planning.
Cunning use of my pics 🙂 But that bit changes with the weather, sometimes dry, sometimes wet and muddy. It doesn't get worse on average. The very worst part on Longridge is [url= http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=366730&Y=441157&A=Y&Z=120 ]The Magic Porridge Pot[/url], which is a BW.
Regardless opposite the farm the track to the left is now a quagmire due to overuse by bikers.
The section by Green Thorn has always been a mud wallow since I first rode it, though sometimes it almost dries out.
ahh yes management of the natural habitat, where has that had an ill effect on the fell?
Well, apart from looking awful, the trails have been ripped up by 2' wide tyres 🙁 But it's a plantation, so 'natural' is stretching it.
Without that vegitation damage the water runnof does not rip the soil away.
yes, you keep saying this, but in the places I'm seeing erosion the vegetation is undisturbed
Surely it's not exclusively large groups of riders causing the damage though, but an increase in numbers generally. I'm not really sure how you could stop this. With reference to the farm track, is it not possible that the damage could be caused by farm machinery? In the woods near me some of the tracks are churned up by logging vehicles. I tend to avoid these until they have recovered a bit, mainly as they're no fun to ride in that state.
If someone were to continue bending my ear I would just say "Please stop talking to me, I'm not interested". But usually just ignoring them works fine.
Penny dropping sound 😥
Simon,pictures tell a thousand words 😀
see the pics above that bit in the pic very rarely dries out now, the pathe has widen massively.....I have ridden the fell for 15 years in that time seen it change dramatically and have been appalled by the damage in the last 3 years. If there are quagmires do not ride it.....let the plant grow back, let it dry out and replenish. Green thorn was not a mud wallow it has become onedue to the large groups using it.places I'm seeing erosion the vegetation is undisturbed
Good luck to clubs and organised rides as long as they show respect to the environment, other riders, and understand the impact they/we have on the paths and the countryside. 🙂
Not large groups Hicksville, large numbers. People just like you...
Simon,pictures tell a thousand words
but the last time I was at the place in those photos (about 3 weeks ago) the mud had dried up!
edit - its no point continuing is it
its no point continuing is it
well, I don't mind a bit of mud, I'm a mountain biker :o)
SFB, it seems you had better stop riding all together - otherwise there will be no lakeland at all in years to come! What tripe! I wonder if the ancient cumbrians protested when the romans constructed high street, even after the industrialisation of the lakes - the old quarry trails that litter the fells don't seem to of had a detrimental effect to the long term flora and fauna.
SFB, it seems you had better stop riding all together
but in fact I shall carry on as usual, on tracks which are largely unchanged over the years
As said above, people who skid, widen trails by going round hard bits or shallow puddles, and moan about not being able to ride a section that someone else will clean easily. Basically riders who don't consider how the trail they're riding got there, and that someone might be going out of their way to fix and improve it for them. Might not apply to riders in Scotland or the Peaks, but certainly applies in places like Cannock and Bristol.
edit - its no point continuing is it
[b]TJ[/b] lost for words - is this a first ?
Those who, at the mere mention of Llandegla in a subject title on here, have to be first to use the words 'tarmac, bmx, shite, Glentress is better' in their replies.
Bikers who when they first meet you say with a mutual friend, tell you how great they are and list all the places they have ridden.
and list all the places they have ridden
isn't this just 'biking related conversation' ?
Those who complain about walker while illegal riding on footpaths. Even if said walker pushes them off.
while illegal riding on footpaths
it's not illegal, it's a tort, whereas assault is a criminal offence
Mud Nazis 😆
simonfbarnes - however you view it you and the bogmakers with you are selfish in your use of trails. You do not consider those that may want to come after you only your ride that day. You have thatcherite view of bike rides, "theres no such thing as other mtbers".
You do not consider those that may want to come after you only your ride that day
correct, I'm only responsible for me and mine. But I usually take the time to converse with or at least say hello to other trail users and the response is overwhelmingly positive
... and you shouldn't confuse my abrasive style with that of the club's other members, who are all nicer and more friendly than me
TJ lost for words - is this a first ?
No - just given up talking to someone who wont listen.
simonfbarnes - Thatchers child.
I try and ignore him, seems to be the easiest policy.
He confuses making up his own mind with refusal to accept that anyone else has a valid point of view.
He claims to love discussion, but you cant discuss from a fixed viewpoint, you can only pontificate.
It's hard to ignore him and the his boggy crew due to the damage that they do. He's an enviromental distaster.
The problem with group rides is they go on regardless of weather and trail conditions. We've seen this happen in Calderdale with the deterioration of sensitive trails.
Local riders have a reason to preserve the quality of the riding so will adapt to the weather, if it's wet we stick to rocky tracks and keep off the peat. Groups don't do this and subsequently damage the trails.
just given up talking to someone who wont listen.
I'm listening TJ, it's just that your arguments don't seem to apply to much of the terrain I ride
simonfbarnes - Thatchers child
that is very hurtful 🙁
but you cant discuss from a fixed viewpoint
I'm willing to change if proved wrong
It's hard to ignore him and the his boggy crew due to the damage that they do. He's an enviromental distaster.
I think you're guessing, or do you have actual evidence?
I used to really like his posts on here - I thought he was amusing.
He then decided to ride up Stoodley Pike in Calderdale on a sunny summer Sunday a couple of years ago with all his crew tagging along behind him.
I'm not so keen now.
He then decided to ride up Stoodley Pike in Calderdale on a sunny summer Sunday a couple of years ago with all his crew tagging along behind him.
wrong, I have never led a ride including Stoodley Pike, it's always a local.
simonfbarnes I know that you'll be fed up hearing about trail damage but there was a time when the climb from the ford to the Gate via the hairpin bend on Jacobs Ladder was all grass (I was young fit and good looking then). That's long gone now due to the amount of mtb traffic it gets (walkers use the steps near by). In the same way that parts of the Pennine Way are having to be surfaced due to boot traffic us mtbers must acknowledge the damage we do. We are human and we make a mess, it's how we respod to the damage that will keep us on the trails.
The Thatcher jibe should not be taken as to much of an insult, you did write "me and mine" after all.
Chaps, this thread is falling into what we might call the "Simonfbarnes Pit" in which each post increases exponentially the probability that the answer to the Great Question of Life, The Universe and Everything is in fact "SFB". Before you know it you will be engaged in a detailed and ill-tempered argument about whether Simon is in fact autistic, Hitler or a pan-dimensional space-lizard with personal grooming issues and VPL while he goads you into putting forward ever more deranged theories about his ego. This is never a great use of bandwidth. 🙂
us mtbers must acknowledge the damage we do.
I didn't say we cause [b]no[/b] damage, but that TJ's dire predictions were unfounded (as confirmed by the park ranger)
The Thatcher jibe should not be taken as to much of an insult
no, it was funny :o)
while he goads you into putting forward ever more deranged theories about his ego
actually, it doesn't need much goading, it's pretty much free running!
Bigdummy - that's it, sfb autistic.
Riders at events who come screaming up behind you shouting "Pro rider coming through!". If they are that 'effing profesional they should be able to get past without all the abuse.
It's even worse when they come blasting past on an uphill section and then I overtake them on the down hill.
that's it, sfb autistic.
I think there may be a higher level of intentionality...
it's not illegal, it's a tort, whereas assault is a criminal offence
Illegal means the same as unlawful. A tort is, therefore, both: it's a civil, rather than a criminal, wrong. Assualt is both a criminal offence and also a tortious act.
I do believe SFB has just solved the big bang theory. Or created a black hole. Not sure which.
Anyway, [b]back ON TOPIC[/b], the primary things that annoy me about MTBers:
1. [b]Faff[/b]. My god, just how long does it take to get you and your space craft ready for a couple of hours up a hill.
2. [b]Eye contact[/b]. Or the lack of it. It may be because they all work in IT and already have borderline personality disorders, or it may also be that they'd rather asses your conversaiton value on the basis of how "good" your bike is. It's the legs, numpties - they're what get you up the hills.
3. [b]Mountain biking[/b]. Apparently in some way a superior pastime than just "riding a bike" or "cycling".
🙂
Everything about them annoys me!
I am the only person I don't get annoyed with, but even I can't tolerate myself now and again.
When a lose-group starts becoming a clique.
Illegal means the same as unlawful.
OK I was imprecise. It's not unlawful to be on private property, but if there is no right of way one is liable for damage caused to the ground etc, and THAT would be the tort. Also there is a possible question over the bike itself, which I believe is not held to be a reasonable thing for a person to have with them, unlike say clothes or a pram or a walking stick. I think this is moot, but for instance say a washing machine WOULD be unreasonable ...
MTBiker having a go at IT people (don't look at my profile).
[i]When a lose-group starts becoming a clique.[/i]
This annoys me too. Losing shouldn't be elitist.
Before you know it you will be engaged in a detailed and ill-tempered argument about whether Simon is in fact autistic, Hitler or a pan-dimensional space-lizard with personal grooming issues and VPL while he goads you into putting forward ever more deranged theories about his ego. This is never a great use of bandwidth. [:-)]
Says you. This sh*! is better that pro wrestling. I don't even own a, What do you call it ?, mountain bike?
"I thought he was amusing.
He then decided to ride up Stoodley Pike in Calderdale on a sunny summer Sunday a couple of years ago with all his crew tagging along behind him.
I'm not so keen now"
Even if he were to have led a bike ride on a sunny summer day, why should that make you have a negative view?
"there was a time when the climb from the ford to the Gate via the hairpin bend on Jacobs Ladder was all grass .. That's long gone now due to the amount of mtb traffic it gets"
Its a (well publicised in the MTB press) bridleway, where do want people to bike ride? Being walled off it surely encourages not only the mtb traffic, but the rainfall of the hillside it cuts across too?
there was a time when the climb from the ford to the Gate via the hairpin bend on Jacobs Ladder was all grass
erosion isn't always a bad thing - the bottom section of JL is more exciting as tumbled rocks than it would have been as grass, and I've already mentioned how it washed away the rubbishy sanitisation on Walna Scar (helped by the powered vehicles that were initially allowed to use it)
People who ride slowly along a narrow sheep track with dense heather on both sides on a Merida Marathon, ignoring all my light hearted, polite requests to either go a bit faster or move over, then shouting "This is singletrack, you know !" when I force my way past relying on greater mass and velocity to give me right of way.
And litter.
when I force my way past relying on greater mass and velocity to give me right of way
you may become a new hate figure...
People who stop at the top of a slippery grass slope on a different Merida Marathon, blocking the trail, because there is someone else walking down, then moan at me as I tramp round through the brambles to get past them and then say "I was waiting for the section to clear so I could ride it" as I ride down it, past the guy walking.
I'm just digging myself in deeper here, aren't I ?
mt - Member
Those who complain about walker while illegal riding on footpaths. Even if said walker pushes them off.
What an unnecessary, small minded and bitchy comment, one to add your your collection....
I've been lurking these forums for years and never have I seen a collection of so many opinionated narrow minded people in all my life, only a small percentage on the whole though, I better get that in so as to not tar everyone with the same brush, just a nod to mt yet again. Telling people where they may ride, how they may ride and generally ridiculing people at any opportunity. Great
What a shame, this is what I hate about mountain bikers
I'm just digging myself in deeper here, aren't I ?
I just need a picture of your face to glue onto this pin-sticking doll 🙂
and generally ridiculing people at any opportunity. Great
I like ridiculing people, particularly ones I know well, but it's intended to be good natured :o)
What a shame, this is what I hate about mountain bikers
I think it's more a characteristic of web geeks...
not much point mentioning the HUGE groups of folk destroying the trails in the peak on a wet weekend . . . usually with lots of back brake and a disapproving view of flat bars and pink accessoies . . . . don't mind them at all . . . .!!!?
and the 'DHers'- bigger underpants than shorts and lots of armour - that i have to pass on my 'XC' rig on every descent . . .
and . . . to be fair . . . most trail centres. . . . how many of us have had to slow or stop for the above mentioned ???? you travel lots to ride a couple of laps of a forest and some **** on a DH bike tells you he 'didn't have the right line' . . . . he's pushed the b**t**d thing for 3 miles . . .and still f***** it up.
destroying the trails in the peak on a wet weekend
which ones are destroyed ? Most of the ones I've been on have been great!
simon - where you been riding recently . . . . . .ffs!!!??? and how often are you out in the peak? today was a right mess . . .
and how often are you out in the peak?
maybe 5 times a year (I live in Lancaster). When I was last there a month ago it was flippin gorgeous:
[url= http://www.bogtrotters.org/rides/2009/29mar/DSC_0258_.jp g" target="_blank">http://www.bogtrotters.org/rides/2009/29mar/DSC_0258_.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
where you been riding recently
you mean it's recently been trashed ? Or are you a mud-tart??
Of course I'm not a peaks expert, but the poorest section I know is from Whinstone Lee Tor towards the cobbled descent to Derwent. The bit that runs level beside a wall has frequent deep mud plunges
Simon do not wish to go over old ground, no pun intended, nor were my comments aimed at any one club or 'group' it was and is something that annoys me about mountain biking. The bits you mention on longride fell are not dry nor have they ever dried out in the last 3 years and the pics show the damage and devestation caused, I agree with Dave moderators point re group rides.
Agree with the issue of faffing, nightmare.
this website. Bah.
Simon, just logged on after a couple of days away and noticed your response to my post.
I didn't realise it wasn't you who led the summer sunday Stoodley Pike ride and I apologise for suggesting that it was.
Memory obviously playing tricks.
Doesn't change my opinion of the ride itself, but wouldn't want to have a go at you for something you [b]didn't[/b] do!
The bits you mention on longride fell are not dry nor have they ever dried out in the last 3 years
Honest it was 2 weeks ago, but that's not devastation, that's a patch of mud, due to the combination of passage of bikes/feet and poor drainage
I didn't realise it wasn't you who led the summer sunday Stoodley Pike ride and I apologise for suggesting that it was.
no need to apologise, I wouldn't hesitate to do it if no one else were available.
Middle aged ****s with body armour. If they learned to ride wouldnt have to look so "core".Although they r generally good for a laugh