[Closed] That there Trillion Prime in Fresh Goods Friday....

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Gopping frame from a brand with a completely offputting backstory (billionaire fancies making a few bikes). Give me a Sick Bike Co Gnarcissist over this any day of the week.

http://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/london-bike-show-2017-trillion-prime/

I'd want better quality welding on any £1350 frame I bought!

Gopping frame from a brand with a completely offputting backstory

right, because Merida are the teeniest of shed-based bicycling manufacture, and Santa Cruz is one bloke with welding torch...

right, because Merida are the teeniest of shed-based bicycling manufacture, and Santa Cruz is one bloke with welding torch...

You might disagree, but I think Rob Roskopp has made a bit more of a contribution to the mountain biking world than the company responsible for this:

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Cracking, probably literally.

Gopping frame from a brand with a completely offputting backstory (billionaire fancies making a few bikes). Give me a Sick Bike Co Gnarcissist over this any day of the week.

Mehhh, son of steel company owner who likes bike decides makes steel bikes, hardly the scandal of the century is it? Get over yourself, it's a bike.

Although quite what they intend to do with the brand is beyond me. If it's marketing for their steel tubing business* then why do they have such eye watering price tags, especially when it's not even that niche anymore, PP, Last, Nordest are all making big & slack 29ers. £1350? It's a bike!

*but is uses Reynolds?

Damn! I thought at first that was the price for the whole bike!

I did as well. Have you checked out the prices for a build though- charging pretty much full retail whack for components. £953 for a pair of Pikes!

Mehhh, son of steel company owner who likes bike decides makes steel bikes, hardly the scandal of the century is it? Get over yourself, it's a bike.

Fill yer boots if you want, I'm just saying why I wouldn't buy one. Well, that and because it's ugly and looks badly made.

Not a bad looking frame, but that welding is terrible.

It was commented on for the spy shots and they responded about it being a prototype etc but it's not got any better. For that sort of money, the welding needs to be absolutely perfect.

It's not attractive and I can't see how anyone thought the cut out bridge thing was a good plan!! Paint job seems a bit too close to the Shan stuff too.

And for that reason, Meh.

[quote=mindmap3 ]It was commented on for the spy shots and they responded about it being a prototype etc

Well that's bollocks anyway - surely you get a proto made by somebody skilled at welding if you're trying to flog expensive steel bikes. If they're planning on getting somebody better to do the production models then why not employ him earlier?

That welding is so bad it looks like I might have done it!

OVERVIEW
Frame Colour (required): Coral (+£1349.99)
Frame Size (required): Large/X-Large
Headset: Hope Headset with Top Cap (+£76.99)
Bottom Bracket: Shimano BB-MT800 (+£34.99)
Forks: Rock Shox Yari RC 160mm Travel 110 Boost (+£647)
Wheels: Mavic Crossmax Pro 27.5 Pair 6Bolt Intl (with Mavic Pulse Pro 2.25 tyres & Tubeless Kit) (+£820)
Groupset: Shimano XT M8000 11 Speed Cassette 11-46 (+£420)
Brakes: Shimano XT with Rotors (+£245)
Stem: Joystick Builder 35mm length and Clamp (+£79.99)
Bars: Joystick Builder (+£49.99)
Grips: ODI Ruffian Lock On Kit (+£26.99)
Seatpost (dropper): KS Lev Integra 31.6 (+£360)
Saddle: Fabric Scoop Radius Elite (+£44.99)
[b]TOTAL: £4,155.93[/b]

Thats a bit spendy for a hardtail.

Thats a bit spendy for a hardtail.

There has got to be an element of stupidity tax in there. Might sell to Apple Mac owners then... 🙂

It does look like full RRP for every part there. Ludicrous.

i thought their website wasn't working right when i saw the price - ridiculous

I really can't work out where/how they've arrived at a price of £1350!
A Production Privee Shan GT frame is £600ish, a Curtis AM7 is £1150, even a Shand Bahookie frame is 'only' £1295.
It's not custom built, and it has what appears to be pretty ropy welding.
Overpriced vanity project methinks!

They could have at least taken the warning sticker off the maxle for the photo shoot.

Prototype is no excuse for poor welding. If anything it should be better as it's a proof of concept and needs some extra detail.

I'll stick to my Stanton for now, their quality is leagues ahead for less that 1/2 the price...

Not the best welding for the money. For that price I would want some pretty neat welds.
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Right click and view image for a better look.

There's an arse for every seat, but that's a lot of money for 'unique'.

It's a funny old game this isn't it?

We've got Calibre knocking out decent, fun, usable FS bikes for £1k (V2 might be a bit better than some of the V1s).

YT and Canyon knocking out super high end carbon bikes for the sorts of prices you'd have to pay for just a frame from brands with cooler brands

And into battle wades a £4K steel hardtail with ropey welds.

I'll stick to my Stanton for now, their quality is leagues ahead for less that 1/2 the price...

Made in the Far East from Reynolds tubing by people who can actually weld!

The shonky welding doesn't seem to be limited to that one frame/bike.

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This is what lovely TIG welding [i]should[/i] look like:

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They are claiming the one Singletrack have for testing is also a prototype.

Does this mean you can't actually buy one just now then? Because if you can lets see photos of a production version then.

What's with the net curtain looking bits?

It must seem as if I'm being a bit down on them, but reading this from ST....

Just to clarify; the Trillion Prime we have for testing is a prototype.

The good news is that the Trillion guys are listening to your feedback and have several changes they’re working on with newer prototype frames. We’ll have more news coming for you soon about production models and those changes, so stay tuned!

Makes me wonder if they've jumped the gun a bit in releasing it.

1) The welding. Why have lots of close up shots in your website of frames that look like they've been welded by an amateur/ hobbyist. Get it done properly!

2) The pricing. I'd expect to pay that sort of money for a full custom frame. Yes, it may be British built, but it's not an established name, so putting a premium price on it is expecting a bit much. I'd think about £900-1000 would be more what I'd expect. And TBH that's still more than I'd probably be prepared to pay for an off the shelf steel frame.

3) The component costs. Full RRP? really? We know they'll get a pretty hefty discount, and most of the components could be bought a lot cheaper online with little effort.

But then I'm probably not the target audience. I'm just not quite sure who is!

But then I'm probably not the target audience. I'm just not quite sure who is!

Let me put it like this - the vast majority of their sales will be the fixie frame (only £650 for 525 tubing 😯 )

Regardless of the welds, why do the chainstays join the top tube rather than the seat tube?

The dropper post routing between the down tube and the seat tube looks horrendous.

160mm forks on a hardtail, can't believe companies are still doing that. If you're spending over a grand on a steel hardtail, surely you want to ride a bike that makes the most of all the positives of steel. 160mm forks and 2.8inch tyres for ploughing through rocks and roots; may aswell make it from pig iron.

Yes, it may be British built, but it's not an established name

complete shit....just because you havent heard of them ...youd be surprised who is behind some pretty cool stuff that you never heard off but they would beat the pants off established names

Well it's quite evidently not "complete shit" because whether or not anybody has heard of them seems fairly irrelevant concerning a company who's products all appear to still be prototypes. If there's somebody who knows what they're doing behind them then they need to come out and say it if they want to be known as anything other than a new company with no reputation (though in that case I'd be looking at weld quality of anything else they'd been involved with). You really can't expect to charge premium - in fact well above market rate - prices as a new company with no reputation, even if your prototypes have good welding!

Well it's quite evidently not "complete shit" because whether or not anybody has heard of them seems fairly irrelevant concerning a company who's products all appear to still be prototypes. If there's somebody who knows what they're doing behind them then they need to come out and say it if they want to be known as anything other than a new company with no reputation (though in that case I'd be looking at weld quality of anything else they'd been involved with). You really can't expect to charge premium - in fact well above market rate - prices as a new company with no reputation, even if your prototypes have good welding!

Iike i said forum opinion complete shit....go and make something ...get some facts about the people behind it

come back when you have a clue

complete shit....just because you havent heard of them ...youd be surprised who is behind some pretty cool stuff that you never heard off but they would beat the pants off established names

Maybe I didn't make my point well enough, in fact it might be that 'established name' is not quite what I meant.
What I meant is that there are plenty of great frame builders/companies who aren't household names, I.e. Curtis. These makers focus on making great products that push the technology and designs.
These guys seem to be far more about being a trendy 'lifestyle' brand, rather than getting a well finished product out there.

*edit*

Iike i said forum opinion complete shit....go and make something ...get some facts about the people behind it

come back when you have a clue

Touched a nerve have we? My opinion is my opinion. I make lots of things, some quite well actually. You need to take a chill pill.

[quote=mickmcd ]Iike i said forum opinion complete shit....go and make something ...get some facts about the people behind it
come back when you have a clue

You're still talking bollocks, and I have plenty of clue thanks. Not sure of the relevance of whether or not I've made anything, and if there's some relevance of the people behind it (which makes up for charging super premium price for shit welding) then either they should mention it - or maybe if you think it's important you should rather than just throwing around vague hints. I'm not sure why it's up to me to do research to counter the obvious - though as implied in my previous post I'm not sure I'd be terrible impressed anyway given what you can see with your own eyes.

Touched a nerve have we?

far from it its common round here for folks to just slate shit, they know nothing about other than the press release ...ive said it before dead easy to slag someones elses efforts off on the internet...

very rare they would say it to the owners face or go to the company and say i slagged your welding off and your bike and pricing can you explain to me

same with the other [s]clown[/s]voice that joined in incensed someone might not agree that its shite because the welding on a prototype might look ropy but would probably pass a test

I don't know a boy about it but surely you can't think that welding is Ok?

It's a good looking bike ruined by that awful attempt at welding. Mass produced frames are better so this needs to be perfect. A Curtis looks like a proper high end product.

[quote=mickmcd ]same with the other clownvoice that joined in incensed someone might not agree that its shite because the welding on a prototype might look ropy but would probably pass a test

You can get bikes which pass a test for a few hundred. Just pop into your local Halfords.

If you want to charge premium price you really ought to have a premium product - and that goes double for the prototype which should be at least as good as a production model aesthetically (if you're marketing a premium product, presumably based mostly on aesthetics, because there's certainly no functional reason for such premium pricing).

far from it its common round here for folks to just slate shit, they know nothing about other than the press release ...ive said it before dead easy to slag someones elses efforts off on the internet...

very rare they would say it to the owners face or go to the company and say i slagged your welding off and your bike and pricing can you explain to me

same with the other clownvoice that joined in incensed someone might not agree that its shite because the welding on a prototype might look ropy but would probably pass a test

I'd happily say this to the owners face - that welding looks shite. Yes it would probably pass tests, but if you're selling a bike at a premium then you should make it look like a premium product.

Based on reading your posts in the past, I know that you're involved in bike/frame manufacturing. Is this from your fair hands? Is that why you seem so personally incensed by our comments?

I actually teach a bit of welding and brazing. I'd be happy with that kind of quality from a student, but It's not what I'd expect from a professional outfit. With bike frames especially, aesthetics plays as much a part as strength. IMO anyway.

[quote=ajantom ]Based on reading your posts in the past, I know that you're involved in bike/frame manufacturing. Is this from your fair hands? Is that why you seem so personally incensed by our comments?

I was kind of assuming that knowing nothing at all about mick or his posting history - there appears to be no other reason to get so personally bothered. Though if that is the case he could just say so - and then justify why his involvement justifies the premium price.

A 2 minute dig reveals this as one of his most recent posts:
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/getting-your-own-custom-design-aluminium-frame-built#post-8534690

though also this one:
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/is-there-a-market-for-e-bike-specific-bike-components
where he appears to be upset about premium pricing on standard products 😆

No it's got nothing to do with me whatsoever

People try hard to put a product out......people slag ot regardless , its boring

Really you teach welding and don't know that would be adequate for its purpose as a prototype id hazard your first post was a dig at something but now someone has pulled you on it .

I do know some of the story behind it I know some of those people have been making far more critical things than a bike frame and would be able to weld both you and me under the table

And your right aracer you can go and buy some shit from Halfords that will pass a test that's all it has to do. It doesn't have to make you feel warm and fuzzy but it says prototype and when you see what some people output as prototypes that's positively sparkling in comparison

Lets see....

"We officially unveiled the production models of the Trillion Prime at the UCI Fort William Downhill World Cup"

Why would Singletrack throw a prototype into a test against production bikes?

Why wouldn't Singletrack mention that the frame was a proto in the article, rather than some time later in the comments?

Why are Trillion taking orders?

Shades of the Edinburgh defence here.

And wildly off target mickomcd, people on here are almost without fail helpful and constructive when asked, just don't take too kindly to weasely antics.

Really you teach welding and don't know that would be adequate for its purpose as a prototype id hazard your first post was a dig at something but now someone has pulled you on it .

I never said it wouldn't be adequate as a prototype. I assumed (naively maybe?) that they'd have sent a finished model to be tested.
No-one has 'pulled me on it' I volunteered the information freely, thinking it might be relevant to the discussion. Obviously you think you just had one over on me 😆

Teaching welding is a very small part of what I do, and I don't claim to be an expert, just someone who can pass on the basics, and hopefully instill an idea of quality and accuracy in making to students.

However, all of my points about the poor aesthetics of the welding, and daft pricing still stand.

Can I just add the you're not coming across very well on this thread, and it might be time to consider shutting up.

If it's a (rough) prototype why would you then splash it all across the internet?First impressions and all that.

People try hard to put a product out......people slag ot regardless , its boring

know some of those people have been making far more critical things than a bike frame and would be able to weld both you and me under the table

just don't take too kindly to weasely antics.

are you accusing them of weasely antics or referring to something else?

And again aracer so far off base , ever just think their pricing might be based on what it costs to run a place making pretty much anything these days

a lot of the people who know me know i dont make anything for the bike industry anymore because it pays shite and always has

[quote=mickmcd ]People try hard to put a product out......people slag ot regardless

People slag it off when it's a bit rubbish. The pricing being rather optimistic also means the expectations of the quality are high.

Really you teach welding and don't know that would be adequate for its purpose as a prototype

"adequate for purpose" rather depends what the purpose is. If the prototype is simply for in house testing then that's totally accurate. However when one of the purposes of the prototype appears to be hawking it around for evaluation - and when the pricing is super premium - then no, it's not "adequate for purpose".

I do know some of the story behind it I know some of those people have been making far more critical things than a bike frame and would be able to weld both you and me under the table

Well WTF don't they demonstrate that then?

And your right aracer you can go and buy some shit from Halfords that will pass a test that's all it has to do. It doesn't have to make you feel warm and fuzzy

That prototype isn't making me feel all warm and fuzzy either.