[Closed] That Sick Bicycle Co Pinion gearbox bike

Plenty of screen dumps from slagging matches they have been involved in posted on instagram - check Facebook out, recent meltdown over a 1 star review from a different customer who surprisingly also waited 3 months for something to not arrive and had no communication - response is to call him out publicly on Facebook and instagram live video.

It's just not good way to conduct yourself as a person let alone a business that is meant to be providing a product and therefore support down the line.

I remember seeing a post where they said the aim of their marketing campaign was to piss off STW users.

Seems to be working.

Cranked, you lost your vallient support there by comparing supporters of the guys to ‘Donald Trump supporters’

Nicely done. Smh.

I’ve not seen anything without a tongue firmly in their cheek

a significant media presence in the last 12 months

I’m sure he’s a big deal in his niche industry

doing something about the issues in the ‘industry’

That's fair enough and clever marketing, I don't doubt that- it's been fun watching people froth at the mouth over their designs and some of the crap talk, what doesn't have to go with that is treating people like crap.

Hang on. Is this another project by HebTrouCo or whatever?

Nickhit3 - I'm not after support or otherwise?

lots of similarities though, no? People following something 'new' despite the bad behaviour and crap talk, everybody rallying behind them because 'the industry and squares' called them and supporters dickheads - yea, no similarities at all.

The Sick Bikes blokes recorded a 'The HTK Podcast' last night, maybe have a listen to that once available and judge for yourselves. I think it will be up later today

(Maybe check out those podcasts anyway, I hadn't heard of them before so downloaded a few and started listening to the first one with Cy Turner of Cotic bikes on my way to work. Found it really interesting)

I'm still not regretting jumping in and putting my money down for one of their frames 😀

eddiebaby - Member
Hang on. Is this another project by HebTrouCo or whatever?

Quite different. As far as I know everyone who has worked with them is still happy. And perhaps they are being accused of being all mouth and absolutely no trousers whatsoever 🙂

anyone on here had a go at doing what they do there are plenty of actual business owners who would quite happily tell a certain percentage of customers where to **** go shove it if they knew it wouldn't damage their halo

This place. What a shit show.

[i]I'm still not regretting jumping in and putting my money down for one of their frames[/i]

yeah, but you haven;t got the frame yet 😉

My 2p - they're doing it a bit differently people will either like that or not. If enough people like them and their products deliver the ride that people want then they'll carry on in business and make a living out of it, if not then they'll be ex-bike company owners and will try something else. I'm old enough now not to get too agitated at either prospect.

I'd like to try one of their frames at some point but for the riding I do they're too long and slack.

nickhit3 -

“Brewdog are a pretty shitty company though, exploiting the people who made them big and using their cash to crush smaller businesses”

I rest my case. Ffs STW. I’m done haha.

I have no idea what you are on about but I think I'm happy to not know.

I wont be buying anything from SBC because it seems much the same can be had easier from somewhere else, I'm sure they don't care much like Planet X don't care and Trek don't care.

scottfitz - Member
IMG-20171002-WA0112 by Southern Enduro / QECP Trail Collective, on Flickr

IMG-20171002-WA0113 by Southern Enduro / QECP Trail Collective, on Flickr

A couple more with me in for scale, I'm 5'11 and the frame is a large.

Bike looks sweet.

It's a business model. In some sectors it is all about having a brand image and marketing angle (to appeal to punters) and appearing innovative disruptive etc. (to appeal to investors) - even if your product or service is quite similar to everyone else's. That's a bit tough if you are doing something very traditional like making bikes out of welded steel tubing, but these guys seem to be having a go.

Also, a small business does not need to appeal a bit to a lot of people, it needs to appeal a lot to a small number of people so they will pay a high premium price.

Criticising a bike company for outsourcing their handmade frames, to a very well respected UK frame builder, is frankly bizzare. And how could they be anything other than direct sales on the number and prices?

If I had the money I'd be interested in one, same as BTR and similar.

wwaswas - Member
yeah, but you haven;t got the frame yet

Levels of regret can go up as well as down 😀

I know two people that have ridden and liked the Gnarcissist a lot. My own experience was only from the car park to the Peaslake Stores so not much to go on but further fuelled my enthusiasm. Scott up there^ rode it then ordered a Ti version (with a proper length seat tube by the looks). All this suggests I'm going to be happy.

Right now the whole thing is a titanium framed, gearbox driven wet dream to me and some of you lot are like my mum knocking on the door telling me it's time for school 😀

I wont be buying anything from SBC

They're a modern, disruptive, web based business who's product just happens to be bikes and associated lines.

They trade on being disruptive, noisy and then work on an arbitrage basis, like many other smart, modern companies. Yes it's different, yes they're doing things in a very non-traditional way, but that's probably a good thing. The bike "industry" is massively outdated in it's working practices and mindset, hence why it's in such a shit state financially, and one of the big problems is the way it puts "industry veterans" on a pedestal just because they've been around a long time.

I reckon it's great to see more fresh thinking, disruptive approaches from guys who've clearly learned the marketing, branding and technical smarts in other sectors.

As for STW approval or otherwise, you have to admit, there is a disproportionately grumpy/cynical/self effacing vibe a lot of the time on here, so probably aren't target market. That's just knowing your target audience.

There really is a lot to like about them - they talk a lot of sense if you ignore the hyperbole and that gearboxed Brooklyn facsimile render looks like it could be very interesting.

Before pointing wagging fingers in their direction just have a look at the Urban Dictionary definition of [url= https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=singletrackworld ]Singletrackworld [/url] - not exactly a glowing report is it?

They may be a little reactionary and not to everyone's tate but they're punching well above their weight with pretty limited resources and are getting a lot of coverage. Whether they manage to make a meaningful contribution to the sport remains to be seen but they're certainly here and the ire isn't really necessary.

If you can't say anything nice or at least constructive keep it to yourself.

If you can't say anything nice or at least constructive keep it to yourself.

Why ? I never understand that. If someone releases a product and people don't like it, why can they not say so ?

andyrm - Member

They're a modern, disruptive, web based business who's product just happens to be bikes and associated lines

Not doubting that - but do you need to treat the public / customers like dirt along with this? I dont think so, if anything by treating customers and the public better how could people criticise other than to moan about a business making a product they dont like?

Anybody know the reason their invite to steel is real demo was cancelled?

Criticising a bike company for outsourcing their handmade frames, to a very well respected UK frame builder, is frankly bizzare.

I thought with the gnarcassist that the frame builder was providing oversight which led me to think they were welding the frames themselves or at least it wasn't the frame builder doing them. Quite possibly wrong though.

Scott - how does the bike ride? I had a long hardtail and whilst it massively improved stability through the rough stuff there was something not quite right about it. Could have been the length ( I have a G13 so not afraid of long reach) coupled with a hardtail characteristics or, more likely, there wasn't enough stack height. It was efficient at going quickly down hill but it wasn't fun if that makes sense.

Being a Worthing local I know a number of riders who know them, not heard anything bad but then I haven't asked. I actually joined Instagram last night to see what the fuss was about (and found someone has nicked my username although he appears to be a Scandinavian skater with a nice tattoo so I'm just going to bask in the reflected glory). I couldn't find the vids of customer slagging but they were doing a live Q&A session which I watched for a bit. To be honest I thought they seemed articulate and it was quite interesting. I was all prepared for them to be obnoxious bellends so I felt slightly cheated.

Not sure I would have admitted not believing in the stuff I was paid to train to others as the taller one did, especially as he made it blatantly obvious where he works for his day job. But I only have the one job to rely on so what would I know.

What does but me off is the streams of fanboi circle jerking posts on FB, make me feel slightly nauseous and a bit embarrassed for the Sick bike boys. I'm going to guess they feel the same way as they posted a GIF of the vomiting scene from Team America in response to one of the particularly fawning posts. Teenage boys and their hormones eh?

Anyway, Mick at Sunshine Cycles on Rowlands Road was the original punk rock Worthing bike business owner!

[quote=Stevet1]There's only one SBC.
http://www.standardbyke.com/

Roots! I've always wanted a Shorty.

Anybody know the reason their invite to steel is real demo was cancelled?

yes

Before pointing wagging fingers in their direction just have a look at the Urban Dictionary definition of Singletrackworld -

ck off i dont have a boring job in IT 🙂 and its inaccurate no where does it mention the obligment to put smileys at the end of every sentence

weeksy - Member
If you can't say anything nice or at least constructive keep it to yourself.
Why ? I never understand that. If someone releases a product and people don't like it, why can they not say so ?

I'm as guilty as anyone of being reactionary but there's a big difference between talking sh*t between friends about something and posting it in a public forum like this. Just imagine if you'd developed a product you thought was great and it got the kicking the first Gnarsicist did when it came up on here. It'd hurt and these guys aren't afraid to push back. For me it broke an unwritten aesthetic rule that a tt shouldn't drop below the direct line to the dropout and for me at least it'd be waaay too long but it was an interesting experiment. The carbon Ti thing was also a bit of a mess but at least they're trying and it's very brave to do it in the public eye.

As stated above their steel bikes are all handmade in the UK by a very well respected builder (and they've sorted out the TT issue 😀 ) so what's not to like there.

I do wish they'd get a slightly thicker skin and wind it in a bit on the social media as they've been filling up my feed to the point I've unfollowed them but then I don't think that'll bother them as I'm not really their target market.

So, here I am,

Lots of questions about our business practices and, a few witty comments.

"Why is (was the ti bike) it so cheap?"

Our policy is a flat percentage rate on top of the base cost of product. Pinion like us so our gearboxes cost less. We took some production time off a company that forfeited their deposit as they didn't complete their orders. The titanium companies is making a lot of frames for larger and smaller UK and US companies. We deal direct to consumer we batch buy and our waste is low. Notice we don't do flash sales, christmas sales boxing day sales, its a Wednesday in June sales. Flat rate pricing all the time. Be Transparent.

The crux is, sorry guys you are getting ripped off by bike companies most of the time. It disappointed me and I wanted to change it.

My background is in Lean Manufacturing, specifically quality normally around ISO9001-2008 auditing. Aside from that we have an industrial designer, a part time modeling engineer and a framebulder with 20 years teaching experience. Ive been in global manufacturing quality for 10 years working with 3M and for Lockheed martin and BAE systems. Releasing an untested, uncertified bike is reckless at best, manslaughter at worst.

The chances are if you didn't like one of our designs, it wasn't aimed at you, luckily there is thousands of other manufacturers. Who make bikes for you. Should you need guidance, I will happily point you in the direction of the right fit.

The new bike looks like a brooklyn - yup one of my favorite and sadly departed brands. Its really obvious guys I'm wearing a brooklyn machine works t-shirt in nearly every photo of me. Its hardly CSI Miami.I wanted to build this bike, I designed it, we're gonna build it. I like it, thats all that matters.

"I don't like your social media" - Simply unfollow, its not for you.

"I watched your live stream and I didn't..." - Stop watching the live stream its not for you

"I went to your page and..." STOP STOP FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THATS HOLY STOP.

we are not the same as other brands, I do not have a gun to your head forcing you to buy a bike. You don't have to like how I do business. Thats capitalism folks. If you guys are right soon we'll be bankrupt, so lucky I have a day job!

For more clarity there is a good interview in Cranked or you should see an interview with Me and Chipps sometime next year in singletrack as we are working together (on something else) in March.

I'll field any reasonable questions,

Jordan
Owner, Sick!

P.S if you think I'm nasty, read your own horrible comments guys, I'm a dad, working a full time job and making bicycles in my spare time.

It's no good coming on here being articulate and reasonable!

People want toys out of prams, rants, poor spelling and grammar.

How can they pigeonhole a brand with qualified owners who know what they're doing and have a clear brand strategy as a couple of wide boys with access to a welding torch and an edgy social media presence when you come out with posts like that!

Stop it, stop it now!

😉

Thats a well mannered and well thought through response and exactly what people want to see from you guys, your own personalality and the companies image backed up by a level of professionalism but....

P.S if you think I'm nasty, read your own horrible comments guys, I'm a dad, working a full time job and making bicycles in my spare time.

What does you being a dad and having a job have to do with you treating some of your customers and public like assholes? - Its not right to call out a disgruntled customer because he has left a bad review as his product ordered months ago has not arrived.

Fighting with people online about their opinion of you or your products is one thing, especially if they are being personal which is not acceptable but calling out people who have given you their money because they like what you do is a really bad show - they bought into and wanted to wear your brand - If you dont deliver they have every right to be pissed, deal with it by saying sorry and going above and beyond to sort the issue not by slagging them off in public - even if it is a postal issue or an issue out of your hands its your issue as you sold the item; your problem until they have what they paid for.

You guys are a new approach to making bikes, you have your own thing going on thats for sure but you dont need treat people like assholes and seemingly laugh about it.

You are going to get to the point that you call people out so aggressively when you receive any criticism that people will be scared to do so, do you really want that - Is that not the opposite of your 'no negativity' statement?

The rule of thumb is we never shoot first.

If someone email and says
"Hey I didn't get my product, can you check out what happened?"

We will without fail immediately investigate it and sort it out.

For clarity we've sold 500 pairs of bloody SOCKS since August let alone bikes and shirts. Things go missing, Royal Mail is donkey. We make mistakes with addresses and customs forms.

However. If someone sends us a shitty email, we give them a hard time. If someone is rude online, give them a hard time. Someone is sexist, racist, or a pig. Bad time. Welcome to the internet. We just do it in business and personal. People have become used to being rude and nasty to get what they want. Complaint culture is rife. Chances are if you see me being a dick to someone they started it.

I gotta ask, if you don't like us, why are you concerned? You should be egging us on. Sooner we burn up and fail we can all go back to just riding bikes again.

C'mon guys, STW forum is hardly a joyful creative area is it? When was the last time you read something that didn't make you want to throw your keyboard through the window?

However. If someone sends us a shitty email, we give them a hard time. If someone is rude online, give them a hard time. Someone is sexist, racist, or a pig. Bad time. Welcome to the internet. We just do it in business and personal.

And fair play too. Just because someone is a customer, there is never an excuse to be rude without any pushback. I'll always come back to the old adage "never write something you wouldn't say within punching distance".

I'm liking what you guys do - but then I've worked in industries that have had big influxes of new, disruptive people that have done great things, and I like it when the status quo gets challenged. Equally, the world of "cycling" does seem to be full of a lot of pretty dull, not very exciting personalities, so it's good to see some people I'd actually be interested in having a beer with.

But be realistic, you want things to grow as a company surely, you cant spend your time making videos whenever you get a bad review on facebook, can you?

The respose to that bad review should have been to shame the customer with politeness, especially if he had not contacted you first to allow you to put the situation right - all you did was make it look like you guys had screwed up and were basically saying "so what if you havnt had your stuff, your a dick anyway"

The STW forum is exactly that, a forum, not a representaton of a company, of course its full of crap and nobody can control that but you have full control over how you conduct yourselves online.

You cant preach about negativity and then dish it out in droves to any criticism and its especially ironic considering how negative you are about the bike industry. As others have said, grow a thicker skin and keep doing what you do best (which you seem to be doing a good job of)

Notice we don't do flash sales, christmas sales boxing day sales, its a Wednesday in June sales. Flat rate pricing all the time. Be Transparent.

You’ve also said that you’re working “cost plus” though. So if you get a deal on the next batch of gearboxes/frames/whatever you’ll have to drop your price to stick to your own rules. Could look a lot like a sale

You cant preach about negativity and then dish it out in droves to any criticism and its especially ironic considering how negative you are about the bike industry.

dat sentence doe

but you have full control over how you conduct yourselves online.

They do, and seemingly they're choosing do dish out proportional responses to the tsunami of bullshit they're receiving from time to time. Seems like an entirely fair position to me. Why should they just take it?

The customer Emailed me back, He was a lairy Aussie boxer, he loved it! I suggested with his washboard abs he didnt need our ugly shirts.

Why are you so concerned about my companies growth?
Thats my job. This isnt my first rodeo.

Started in January, first bike in June, sold out every frame variant since.
Print Magazine articles in MBR, MBUK, CRANKED
Interviews on DIRT.

I recon we are doing OK.

You’ve also said that you’re working “cost plus” though. So if you get a deal on the next batch of gearboxes/frames/whatever you’ll have to drop your price to stick to your own rules. Could look a lot like a sale

But it wouldn't be. It might look like it, but it wouldn't be.

Its a bit dreary to focus on that isnt it?

C'mon guys, STW forum is hardly a joyful creative area is it? When was the last time you read something that didn't make you want to throw your keyboard through the window?

Clearly you've missed the threads offering help with depression, or the ones where members have sent parts/whole bikes to people who were unfortunate enough to have them stolen, or the one where a guy couldn't afford a bike and we all built him on. Or indeed the one where a guy asked for help with a part and got £3000 from STWers for a mechanical wheelchair for his disabled wife ?

The place is exceptional in it's ability to be nice.

Sure, if people don't like something, they'll give it both barrels... but that is constructive too in many ways. Just because you've got pre-informed opinions of STW, doesn't make them all true.

Personally until this thread i've never heard of you, i don't want one of your bikes, i don't really care.... but don't slate this place without being informed.

Business is dreary though. As someone with over 10 years Manufacturing experience, in the same area you mention, its the sort of thing I sometimes notice. If I wanted to be really dreary i’d look at the favour Pinion are currently doing you and expect prices to go up before long

Not for me for 2 reasons. I know someone who ordered one of their Ti frames and didn't get a frame with the geometry he expected, which I think is unforgivable. Also, I've seen how one of the guys who runs the company speaks to people on social media, and I wouldn't give him my money. Personally I don't like the look of their frames, but each to their own

So at this point, interesting, because only 2 customers have their Ti frames. Both was sent the technical drawing for approval, one has posted photos of himself with his bike here. And the other I know personally really well. So either Scott or Joe. These were the prototypes used as the basis for the team bikes for 2018 and they wanted them. So, Hmmm.

" If I wanted to be really dreary i’d look at the favour Pinion are currently doing you and expect prices to go up before long"

Thats what contracts are for.

I assume said contract is a bit more solid than "Pinion like us so our gearboxes cost less"

jordanchaos - Member
So at this point, interesting, because only 2 customers have their Ti frames. Both was sent the technical drawing for approval, one has posted photos of himself with his bike here. And the other I know personally really well. So either Scott or Joe. These were the prototypes used as the basis for the team bikes for 2018 and they wanted them. So, Hmmm.

need more of this though!

Anyway, being brutally honest, gotta get back to the day job. Said my bit, not a massive fan of forums tbh (its pretty anonymous so tends to bring out peoples worst side in my expearience)

That said

Any direct questons
My email is

jordan@sickbicycle.co

Cheers
J

Also Joe just bought a stupid 30cm long model of his bike from our 3d printer so it wasnt him...

Great response Jordan. Best of luck with everything.