I realise that Cotic stopped producing these frames earlier this year but there are a few 2nd hand ones knocking about and i'm interested. I know the early models had some issues with snapping however, I understand that the later models had beefed up chainstays so hopefully this sorted the problem.
I understand that they were initially sold as 120/150mm but latterly were 120mm only (with room for upto 160mm travel forks).
What sort of riding is the frame capable of being put through? Can the longer rockers be fitted to the later frames?
Any positive/negative views (apart from those already mentioned)?
Thanks peeps.
they're ace.
the frame weighs about 7lbs; which is not light, but it's not heavy either. They're strong enough for more or less anything except heavy crashing and dodgy landings.
i sold mine because i'm a lanky streak of pi55, and couldn't get the saddle high enough.
i've used mine as an all round trail bike for about 3 years. ridden in verbier, in spain, in the lakes, dartmoor you name it. a superb all rounder.
yes, i have the frame for sale at present if you're interested, about to knock the original price down.
ivyhouse7ATyahooDOTcoDOTuk
Love mine, seems to take tons of abuse. I bought both rockers when I got mine and still haven't fitted the long one, other than to make sure I made cables long enough when I was building it up.
Cy probably new I was going to buy one when I handed his back to him after a demo with a huge grin across my face. I think I still finish pretty much every single ride on it with that same grin!
I have stolen some parts from it for my 29er to see if I can get the grin factor back on that, otherwise I think I might [i]have[/i] to buy a Soul, or a Solaris...
The missus has one and loves it - hers has the old 4" and 6" rockers rather than the later 5" ones.
She loves it - can work as a sensibly weighted trail bike (hers is 29ish lb) or with the big rockers and a coil shock is Alps friendly.
I've ridden one a fair bit - they're a great rufty tufty trail bike. Handle really well, good traction, and the big fork/littler back end thing works really well - especially if you're used to riding hardtails. They do encourage a degree of lunacy that doesn't quite fall within the "trail bike" heading though, which might account for the "fragile" reputation
I DON'T have one because a) it would be almost identical to the SOs 😕 , b)I need my full sus to be properly DH friendly as much as being a trail bike(currently on an Uzzi VP). I'm tinkering with the idea of a trail FS though (when funds allow) and something with the spec of a Hemlock is pretty much exactly what I'd be after.
If anyone would consider selling a set of the long / 150mm rockers to fot the last incarnation of the Hemlock (OS headtube) then I'd be interested. Subject to price 😉
timsellors[at]googlemail[dot]com
Tempting as it is Cheeky Monkey; i know the minute I sell them I'll plan a trip somewhere I want to use them!
Tim what's wrong with the 160mm?
Why did they stop making them?
Cheeky, you sold that frame already ?
Emailed you 😉
anyone know anything about the planned replacement?
They are absolutely superb. Love mine... Got it built with a set of Lyriks and a Works Components 2 degree slackener headset, and 120mm rocker. Doesn't feel like too much bike round glentress red but doesn't feel like too little on most downhill courses. I'm not a great rider so the fact that I can do the stuff I do on it speaks volumes I reckon.
To be fair, it did break just like people said it would- the older design chainstays snapped after an uplift day at fort william. But I had a free replacement within 48 hours despite not actually having a warranty (bought it used), and despite being honest about what I use the bike for. The replacement is strong like ox.
emmodd - MemberWhat sort of riding is the frame capable of being put through?
Endurance downhill racing at Fort William? 
Never missed a beat for 6 hours down the worldcup route while all round it expensive downhill bikes fell apart. Despite being ridden by a fanny.
[url= http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6010/6189164405_1ff0162b87.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/53860438@N06/6189164405/ ]This is the pits man[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/53860438@N06/ ]Northwindlowlander[/url], on Flickr
I'd really like to try the long rocker but the 120mm one matches a big fork really well. Only criticism I have of the thing is that it's not very distinguished with a shorter fork... It's OK but it always feels like a big bike with a short fork. But stick in a 150mm or bigger and it comes alive.
Love mine. Mines setup more as a standard trail bike with the 120mm rocker and Fox Talas (100-120-140)....that's certainly enough for most of the riding I use it for which is around the Surrey Hills. It comes in under 30lb so fine for climbs. Would be fun to try a bigger fork and the long rocker.
Few niggles whilst we're on the topic...notice the rocker hits the back of the seatube when the suspension bottoms out, the seatstays stick out a bit and I tend to bash my heels on them which is unusual as on my other bikes it's heels rubbing on chainstays, and, lastly, for some reason I've always found it fiddly to put the rear wheel (cassette hits end of seatstay). As said, all niggles which I accept as it rides so well although, having the older chainstays, I have noticed a bit of flex on steep fast turns (If anyone wants to flog me the updated chainstays mail me pls).
I've also heard it's a bit of a mare changing the frame bearings but not had to worry about that yet.
Would have bought another one if they hadn't canned it...I thought Cotic would do an updated version with 142x12mm rear axle to help stiffen up even further the beefed up stays, plus add ISCG mount.
...and, fwiw, I never thought they were ugly/industrial but I guess its eye of the behold and all that...
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Mine was OK. Just rode like a bike really. Decent enough in the tight gnadgery stuff, but my Prophet was way more of a loony machine if it ever opened out and you could really let it go. My bearings didn't last long either and were very painful to swap out. I'd imagine with one of those headsets where you can slacken it off it would be a lot nicer. Ran mine with 150mm Fox Talas for most of the time and felt (for me and my slightly long leg short body make up) that the seat tube was too slack for easy climbing. I had to shove my seat right forward on the rails to feel OK on the climbs. Talas forks certainly helped.
On the plus side the suspension was good - lots of grip and feel.
Here it is about 30 minutes before the '09 chainstay snapped. 9 mile walk back down one of the best descents in the Black Mountains gave me a sense of humour failure.
[url= http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3583/3775844732_1fa6d90870.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/rick2/3775844732/ ]31072009020[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/rick2/ ]Rick T.[/url], on Flickr
.
And here it is in the Alps. Note saddle shoved forward.
[url= http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3364/3665118235_621baefe02.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/rick2/3665118235/ ]Hemlock in the Alps[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/rick2/ ]Rick T.[/url], on Flickr
I have just sold my original Hemlock frame.
It was bought from Cy as an Ex Demo model with the Pearl 3.1 shock with the 100mm & 160mm rockers. The front end was new but the rear triangle and shock were used.
I ran it with the 100mm rocker out back and 36 Talas forks up front.
I tried the 160mm rocker when the bearings died on the 100mm one but truthfully its more than good enough in most situations with 100mm out back. The only place I found it wanting was the Fort Bill DH and that was probably me...
Fork length:
160mm is perfect everywhere apart from the steepest most nadgery climbs. Definitely improved my confidence all round.
130mm makes the BB a little too low if the climbs get very lumpy but I have done lots of descents both slow and techy and fast and loose without extending the fork and never noticed. In this guise is makes a good singletrack weapon.
110mm was great on long, steep climbs but no use on anything rough.
Shocks:
Pearl was fine till it died.
Replaced with Van R which was overkill for me.
Float R worked well.
But RP2 was my favourite. Time to sell the Float & Van R 😆
As for reliability its been washed after most rides, dropped to flat from six foot, ridden for two years in all weathers both locally and at trail centres and has had one set of bearings and they weren't all worn out.
I can't remember what year they first came out but I am sure the first ones had no chainstay issues.
Aesthetics, as stated, are in the eye of the beholder. I have sold it to buy an 09 Wolf Ridge & if money was no object would buy a Nicolai!
Cy at Cotic has answered any question no matter how daft, both quickly and accurately.
I have only changed frames because the Wolf Ridge was in the sale at £1300 complete.
Question though. I have kept my eye out for Hemlocks for sale and it is only now they have started to appear. Do people who buy frames and build their own bikes only keep them for two to three years before they get the itch...!
nuke - Membernotice the rocker hits the back of the seatube when the suspension bottoms out,
It might not be a bad idea to take a ruler to your shock- mine used to do that, turned out it had a 190x50 in it not a 200x57 😳 Bought it used so I've assumed it was replaced by the previous owner, but you never know. Just changed it over and it no longer does it, though it [i]might[/i] on a heavy bottom-out.
Frame bearings are dead easy to swap btw. But the ones at the back of the rocker seem to need a blind bearing puller. The ones at the wheel end [i]ought[/i] to, but I managed to bully mine out with a bent screwdriver. But then it's only needed done once and the frame's had a lot of use.
I would definately agree that it's a bit ugly though, very meccano-like and the small main frame makes the seatpost look too long. But functional-ugly.
TBH the only similiar bike I've ridden that could hold a candle to it was a Rocky Mountain Slayer with an angleset in, it felt very similiar in fact. And cost £2000! OTOH the Slayer is not ugly.
Damn was considering a hemlock to possibly replace one of my rather old frames.I realise that Cotic stopped producing these frames earlier this year
The first Hemlock uses a 200x50 shock. If you put a 200x57 in you will get metal bits hitting other metal bits!
It might not be a bad idea to take a ruler to your shock- mine used to do that, turned out it had a 190x50 in it not a 200x57
Went out with the ruler and based on my measurements it came in at 200mm eye-to-eye with 57mm of exposed shock body. I'm sure its not the first version Hemlock...oh well, it's a fairly rare occurrence and only when I'm being particularly clumsy.
I currently (well nearly) have two :blush:
J's (Mugboo, above) small, original and a medium, revised design (OS HT and earlier style c/stays).
The small has been lovely on the first few rides for descending. However, I'm 5'10" and I feel like my fat ass is hanging off the back of the saddle a bit on climbs and seated stuff. Even with an 80mm stem and the saddle right back on the rails. Will see.
Either a small or medium for sale at some point 😉
I do like the look of these, it's a shame they're no longer in production.
Checked with Cotic and they said they were getting some replacement chainstays made up and would be for sale c.£175.
Eeek! Hopefully won't need them 😎
Those chainstays are tough enough on that first model 🙂
Mate of mine bought a 1st gen model stickered up as a Cove G Spot 😈
Snapped the chainstays on one of its first outings.
Cotic are sorting him out with a set of replacements of a demo bike for 1/2 rrp due to a delay in them coming in.
Top service from Cotic there.
(when he gets bored with it, I might make a cheeky offer!).
Cheeky Monkey - MemberEeek! Hopefully won't need them
Obviously ymmv, but Cotic wouldn't take my money for a replacement set when I needed them, and I did offer... They'd have charged if I wanted a set just for an upgrade though which is fair enough.
Got mine May last year, it's been through a few different setups of forks Pikes, Revs and now Lyriks, came with the 120 rockers but I got one of the last sets of 150's that Cy had lying around, after a spring/summer of trying them think I will go back to the 120's and keep the 150's for special occasions. Since this picture was taken I've added some Saint brakes to it as you end up going at some silly speeds on it.
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Having the headtube that will take 1.5inch steerer forks is a great touch as you can pick up some right bargains on forks with straight thru 1.5 steerers.
Agree with Nuke re-fitting the rear wheel can be a bit fiddly.
I wonder, do any of you good people with 150mm rockers currently spare fancy lending me one for a little while to try out? I'd be happy to provide a bit of collateral so you know I won't run off with them, just very curious to try it...
Northwind - I have a set with new bearings. Happy to lend them if you don't run off with it! Email me sir
Very good of you sir! YGM.