[Closed] TdF Stage 9 - Five Passes On The Menu [Spoilers]

imaginatively named Junkyards STW team

Anyway you are just bitter at having to suck my wheel 😉

Yes three identical teams with some randoms thrown in

Out today so will miss this one

Not sur eif Sky will just monitor or go for it

Would be nice to see them do the same again but that would devestate the race IMHO and it will be all but over if he takes another minute or so out of them

I think Quintana is the only real danger,

Good intro Realman, thanks 😀

Christ 30k to the finish from the final summit! What a waste of a load of climbs!

here's a lot of talk about whether or not Sky might be doping (see article below), and looking at yesterday, I can see why. I don't think Sky are, but how do you explain it? Everyone else finally off the juice and suffering because of it? Some awesome training plan? Froome and Porte just born a cut above the rest? A mixture?

It's a question that no one really knows the answer to. surely there aren't only 2 or 3 sports scientists that know how to train cyclists post doping? you know what I mean? if sky can train so well, then surely other teams can...

I don't know, I hope he's clean, I really do.

What help is that video? I spent absolutely no time looking at the bar tape.

...bar tape? 😕

surely there aren't only 2 or 3 sports scientists that know how to train cyclists post doping? you know what I mean? if sky can train so well, then surely other teams can...

Some coaches are better than others. Training at that level is so complex, and there's masses of theories about what is best. If Sky had come up with something that provided awesome results, they would probably do their best to keep it a secret, as you'd expect. However, that's quite tricky too, as when team members leave and join different teams (i.e. Cav moving to quickstep), you would think they could take some of the knowledge with them.

It's a question that no one really knows the answer to. surely there aren't only 2 or 3 sports scientists that know how to train cyclists post doping? you know what I mean? if sky can train so well, then surely other teams can...

You get dominant teams in all forms of sport, not just cycling. If everyone knew how they did it, they wouldn't be dominant.

Why have Man Utd dominated English football over the last 20 years? Why were the Chicago Bulls so dominant in their heyday? Why were Liverpool so dominant in European football in the 70s and 80s?

It happens.

I've really no idea why people who suspect doping follow pro cycling. Honestly if you watched Froome yesterday but thought he wasn't clean then why bother. I get why people think everyone in the Tour is on drugs but I don't get why someone would watch it if they did.

Groomed been a good climber for a while, pushing those around him so no surprise about performances. Don't think he needs to dope quite frankly!

Richie has been around a while, also always been a strong climber.

It's not like either of them have just turned up unannounced and thrashed everyone!

Morning !

Should be good today but I agree with Tom B, why such a gap from the last climb to the finish ? After loads of big hills it's not like there'll be a bunch sprint and it'll just minimise any advantage a climber might have gained on his own (the kind of stage WiggoSky would have liked last year, I think)

I don't know enough about roadies to have a plausible go at "is sky doping?"

... so here's my ill-founded bollocks:

It's down to the quality of the entire team, isn't it (and that's what makes me a bit suspicious) ?

Sure, not only is Froome bloody good but obviously Porte would make the GC leader for pretty much any other team. Then they've got the "domestiques" and this is the bit I can't do. Are they all way better than everybody elses (B-Hagen, fair enough, he's quite famous but what about the rest). If they're genuinely better riders than everybody else's (and always have been) then fair enough - they're just the Chelsea/Man City model for purchasing wins. If all of those guys are performing better than anyone expected, ...

I can see though, that they are all very disciplined - none of this Jens on a mad breakaway stuff; they just sit and ride, giving maximum effort and protection for Froome/Wiggo

(I don't like sky's racing tactics but I still hope they're not doping)

I've really no idea why people who suspect doping follow pro cycling. Honestly if you watched Froome yesterday but thought he wasn't clean then why bother. I get why people think everyone in the Tour is on drugs but I don't get why someone would watch it if they did.

Because it is a great spectacle and exciting to watch. Is it really that hard to understand?

Didn't one wise person once say "cycling doesn't get any easier, you just get faster"? Well surely that must apply to doping as well.

Say, for sake of argument, Froome is doping: Did you see the look on his face on that last climb? Did you see the amount he was sweating? That was seriously hard work, dope or no dope.

So you're saying that even if you think they are doping you can still enjoy the spectacle? Sorry but I can't understand that, if you watch Sagan,Froome, Cav et al trounce their opponents and say that was excellent but I bet he was doping? I'm not sure I could keep watching if every time someone won I thought they were cheating.

there is another thread discussing doping, Froome V Wiggins. so lets just discuss the race here
Please

+1 Junkyard: regardless of your opinions Realman takes time to create these daily threads to discuss the racing; 3 weeks of "Are Sky doping" threads will get very boring very quickly. No one else in these threads is interested in taking part in that debate, whether with think they are doping or not we leave that at the door.

JimstersJinkers pull an Evans and disappear off the top, to be replaced with Grannys Rings by Chris Johnson at the top of the Fantasy league.

Score. Took a bit of a gamble putting all my eggs in the Froome-Porte-Sagan-Cav basket (not exactly a [i]huge[/i] gamble, you might say), but seems to be paying off so far. Top three teams almost identical - should be close. (Certainly closer than my [url= http://www.velogames.com/giro-ditalia/2013/leaguescores.php?league=2073844 ]convincing victory[/url] in the STW Giro league, at least. 8) )

As for today, I wouldn't be surprised if Sky dominate again. Froome just looks untouchable - he could be 2+ mins up on his nearest (non-Sky) rival by the rest day.

Ok, no more dope-talk but we should bear in mind that Realman had a paragraph and a link on the subject in the OP so I doubt he's gnashing his teeth over others doing it

Kennaugh, ouch!

More to the point I hope bloody ITV4 will not miss the key defining moments of the stage today by sticking on some ads for some Ambulance chasing solicitors and blokes grooming products 👿

130km to go, decent quality break getting reeled in and Froome only got Porte left with him at front of peleton (with Quintana on his wheel). They didnt just break the peleton theyve killed the rest of the team, the Sky train is no more can someone else bring the fight to them?

Peleton - less 'e's more 'o's.... 😉

meh, looks wrong however I type it...

Froome lost all his support and currently surrounded by Movistar, on the radio looking worried theyre going to gang up on him, take his lunch money and force feed him grass...

Cannot see it as it is like running a marathon best to do it as a doable tempo. With cycling you get assistance from the team mates [drafting]till the last final effort

It would take a sizeable breakaway of talented riders and they would need to redline for a long time to beat them/stay ahead
The next day they would pay the price for this

It is dull but it is effective if you have the fastest rider. Anyone can tuck into their train and then out do them at the last...yesterday we saw how unlikely that is.
I suppose Froome would have a bad day or a crash

EDIT: it seems Froomes attitude is he will go with them and just sit with them and tuck in- they still need to drop him as they draft him.

Suppose he needs to decide who to go with when they attack and it is not like anyone will help him

Froome(dog) constantly on radio literally surrounded by Movistar, 125km to go and he is isolated. We'll see how he copes and whether he can make any friends.

My guess is this stage will be won by someone who "[i]used to be a MTBer"[/i]... 8)

It will be interesting to see how well the ice baths, massage, and nutrition will have worked for the Sky powerhouse today after yesterday's efforts.

valverde attacks and froome forced to chase, is this the pattern for the day, every other contender puts a dig in and he exhausts himself countering it?

A very nieve defense from froome, movistar are not stupid.

Oh dear.

If froome holds the yellow today he deserves to keep it bUt everyones ganging up today

Movistar and saxotinkoff got teams going for it and froomes got he and him self

A very nieve defense from froome,

In the Froome v. Wiggins debate I would say that is one area where Wiggins has the edge.

[conspiracy theory]was Kennaugh taken out deliberately? [/conspiacy theory]

Watching the crash it looked it tbh

Not sure what you mean trail rat he is just sitting in and following his main threat[s] - what would you expect him to do - attack them all from 100 km out and try to drop them all?

It is going to be a cracking days race today and for the next few days as they all try to make him crack...will he??

And I need to go out and will miss it

Fantastic to see yellow not just sitting back and also the other big teams going for it. loving it

Missed the start I assume a crash caused the split and some of you think it was a deliberate crash to split the Sky team

Schumacher tactic sin pro cycling?

Sounds like you just tuned in.

Been watchingthe eurosport coverage.

Basically movistar are giving him a beating as a 2 , they called up the road to get their man to wait and now have a three man squad giving him a beating , he needs support

Your idea of sitting in and mine are different. Hes not exactly on movi stars wheel constantly by my standard of hugging a wheel. And the further from a wheel you are the harder it is.

Appears to be drifting in and out of the slip stream , movistar deliberitely keeping it fluid and changing pace to break him.

Pete Kennaugh was clipped and ended up off the road and down a bank; back up and riding but obviously got separated from Froome. To be fair, could have happened at any time to anyone.

Sounds like you just tuned in

Your idea of sitting in and mine are different. Hes not exactly on movi stars wheel constantly by my standard of hugging a wheel.

Still he isolated so a serious test of tactics, stamina and will power

Pace is fast so it may well break the others just like yesterday ?

I love the Pyresourde! Interesting that Froome is isolated, makes for a more exciting stage!

[ but it is exciting

Something we agree on.... I have a silly list of jobs to do and a car to collect from whence we left it last night , but the tour is being watched.

so can someone explain to me why it makes a difference today if Froome doesn't have his team around him?

Providing he has the legs after yesterday can't he just stick with his rivals by riding off their wheel? If he can stick with sky setting a high pace then why can't he stick with the movistar guys?

Educate me please

ta

movistar will make short sharp attacks that Frrome will have to close down on his own. Then when frroms is really tired the main movistar rider will make a final all out attack.

Because Movistar won't set a constant pace like they did yesterday. Quintana will probably attack as he did yesterday and it'll be up to Froome to then chase him down with the others sitting in his wheel. If he catches Quintana then one of the others will then attack him again...eventually in theory he won't be able to keep with the attacks.

so why doesn't he just ignore the attacks and focus on the main rider?

Should be good today but I agree with Tom B, why such a gap from the last climb to the finish ? After loads of big hills it's not like there'll be a bunch sprint and it'll just minimise any advantage a climber might have gained on his own (the kind of stage WiggoSky would have liked last year, I think)

Different stages suit different riders, if you had all the stages as being flat (for sprinters) or summit finishes (for climbers) it would get a bit boring, and only sprinters and climbers would win. This will be exciting.

Ok, no more dope-talk but we should bear in mind that Realman had a paragraph and a link on the subject in the OP so I doubt he's gnashing his teeth over others doing it

As I've said before, I'm not a fan of speculation, but I don't think trying to ignore it is the way to go either. Having said that, I think it only really needs to be discussed before or after the racing, never during. Speaking of which, I've only just tuned in (went for a ride - what an idiot), and I see I've missed loads...

However, Bulgaria is excellent.

[img] [/img]

Also

3 weeks of "Are Sky doping" threads will get very boring very quickly.

+1

so why doesn't he just ignore the attacks and focus on the main rider?

Because they're all threats really.

He can't really ignore it if Quintana goes as he isn't that far down on GC.

The advantages of having your own team is that you can dictate the pace and where and when to speed up slow down, this is sometimes not apparent with Sky as they drill out a hefty pace anyway. Of course you can still follow the other teams and take a bit of shelter but its on their terms and if you are struggling they won't ease off the gas. And it just takes one mistake or missed line on an apex and there is no one to help you get back to the guys forging ahead. Also there is a recognisable advantage of having your teammates around you from a physiological point of view, strength in numbers and all that.And to a lesser degree if something goes wrong with your bike you can nab a teammates wheel or whatever.

What happened to Porte?

he can ignore quintana IMO - could just about take the yellow but he won't keep it and would hamstring valverde if he had to defend yellow. Meanwhile sky get to recover tomorrow

I I was him I'd stick to valverde and/or contador ONLY

(or is that bollocks ?)

If Quintana went he'd catch him on the descent. Not a day for Quintana to attack.

Now am I good at predictions or what 🙂

It's not just the descent, there's a long flattish finish

Excellent! Quintana has forced the selection.

Evans to win?

Seeing the way Quintana blew up yesterday Froome may indeed be better off letting him go to limit the damage to himself but without team-mates around him he may not be able to reel him in on the descent.

C'mon Andy! (Schleck, of course).

RealMan - Porte seemed to be a bit slow out of the blocks this morning and then when Kennaugh got taken out he, Froome & Kennaugh were all seperated. Kennaugh got back with Porte but couldn't stay with him to chase down Froome, Porte didn't have the legs to catch Froome alone.

Looks like a fun descent, albeit a bit long.

mogrim - Member
C'mon Andy! (Schleck, of course)

Cuddles will get them on the descent, he is an ex mountain biker after all

Aye, he'll tear 'em apart on the descent

🙂

Thanks psling, he's lost huge time though.

Given that Quintana appears to be leading them down the descent I'd say that it's pretty safe ton day Fuglsang and Martin will stay away!

ha ha.. have any of you "mountainbikers" ever tried to keep up with a roadie who's a good descender on a mountain descent?

Actually was that Kwiatowski?

That's the comment from Phil normally about cuddles.

ha ha.. have any of you "mountainbikers" ever tried to keep up with a roadie who's a good descender on a mountain descent?

Yeah, I have. And if (amateur) Spanish roadies are anything to go by they're not that good. Pros, of course, are a different matter.

Edit: to be fair my mate, who's 100% Spanish, is better than me. But he's a moutainbiker too.

Movistar (and saxo) would appear to have buggered up a very good opportunity here, and now they're pacing froome down to the finish

Anyone know who won L-B-L this year? 🙂

Good God ! Gesink ? 😯

(he's in my losers team 👿 )

Anyone know who won L-B-L this year?

Was he an ex-mtber?

Persona - it's a term spouted by Liggett on ITV4 commentary and repeated tongue-in-cheek by the likes of STW forumites 8)

Ah, thanks psling.. forgot for a moment I had entered the old boys club. 😉

Big shame about Porte, but great win for Martin.

Well, fair-dos to Froome, a cracking ride under the cicumstances; he neutralised all efforts to break him in the end.

And well done to Dan Martin!

Great ride from Froome!

Movistar blew it today, but froome didn't look in trouble anywhere. Ah well some higher mountains to come and ventoux will be awful if the temp stays high. Well done to Martin too

For me today was more impressive than yesterday from froome

Chapeau

Bloody Movistar, was expecting more.

Perhaps Dan Martin could spend some of his winnings on dentistry? 🙂

mogrim - Member

Bloody Movistar, was expecting more.

Perhaps Dan Martin could spend some of his winnings on dentistry?

Fantastic day's racing, a totally compelling watch. Looks like there should be no more worries about this year being a boring tour.

Cracking effort from Martin, helps my fantasy team no end.

cracking last two days,
Froome-Dog staying with the best- shame for the Tasmanian Devil with the grin of pain but I reckon he'll get time back over the TTs and other big mountain stages. 😀

kind of shows Sky are human, I wonder if questions will now be asked of the other teams if they keep up such relentless storming of the hills day after day??