Another early one as I'm off to work on the Lancaster GP bike race although hopefully I can have the Tour on in the background somewhere!
The second of two big days in the Alps - yesterday may have been a near stalemate at the top but it's changed the rest of the rankings significantly. Another summit finish today (actually about 10km from Mont Blanc but no-one would know it if you called it it's proper name, Le Bettex), a ski station last used in 2016 when Romain Bardet won so he'll be devastated at crashing out yesterday.
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Here's a picture of the Col de la Forclaz when it was first ridden in 1959!
[img] https://img.aso.fr/core_app/img-cycling-tdf-jpg/et15-slr-8-col-de-la-forclaz-1/45295/0:0,1200:800-600-0-70/250f8 [/img]
Too many contenders to call today - yesterday saw the breakaway swallowed up by the relentless and ever-changing dynamic between UAE and Jumbo-Visma which resulted in a spectacular display of...nothing. Flip-flopping fortunes between each team, both teams looked to be trying to grind each other down but to no avail so there's a chance they could choose to play that out in the background while a breakaway goes for the stage win.
Right, off to my other bike race now!
Did Tom P blow that bad yesterday or just realise he wasn't at the races and opted to keep his powder dry? Dave B is at the tour this weekend, could they be looking for a third in a row?
I think Tom just had a bad day - maybe initially he hoped he could get back onto the front group using the descent of the Ramaz but that didn't happen and there was no point chasing, especially not with the brutal Joux Plane climb to come. He's lost a fair chunk of time but maybe if he's feeling good it might give him the leeway to get into a break.
There could well be several separate battles now.
GC 1 & 2 obviously (UAE/Jumbo-Visma)
GC 3 & 4 as Carlos Rodriguez climbed to 3rd overall yesterday, a mere 1" above Jai Hindley so Bora-Handsgrohe and Ineos Grenadiers may well be having their own battle. Carlos is nearly 5' down on Pogacar so unlikely to be getting much of that back.
Meanwhile Jonas Vingegaard and Neilson Powless both have 54 points in the KOM which technically gives JV the jersey (although it's still worn by Powless).
And Tom Pidcock is now 2' down on Felix Gall in the white jersey contest sitting at 4th so there's a chance he could get back onto that podium.
Fascinating little battles within battles.
The stage profile didn't appear for me in the first post originally, so I thought i'd try and be helpful, but now it's there!
where's that place with the church in the middle of the river, that is stunning.
2 fewer motorbikes today, then - bit of an empty gesture
would be better to fit one or two with some sort of wedge-shaped spacer devive (electrified might be fun) to part the crowds
electrified outriggers are definitely the way to go.
would be better to fit one or two with some sort of wedge-shaped spacer devive (electrified might be fun) to part the crowds
The crowds are almost impossible to control - every year they say they'll be stricter about access or use of flares etc and every year there are huge drunken crowds; you can't arrest all of them or remove them from the mountain and it's just left to self-police.
Many years ago they tried to ticket access to a certain mountain (can't remember which) and everyone just steamrollered their way through, there were far too many spectators to try and control and the logistics of putting barriers along 5 miles of mountain is too much.
and then you wouldn't get moments like this
https://twitter.com/Julientrivero/status/1680242366681063424
I do wonder if drones might replace camera bikes and at least reduce the number that are on the road
where’s that place with the church in the middle of the river, that is stunning.
@45.898556,6.1278264,3a,75y,268.57h,80t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipMSSsA1p3TVHaezTpFbO3xSrePOkOMLJgpUJIom!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMSSsA1p3TVHaezTpFbO3xSrePOkOMLJgpUJIom%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya83.69471-ro-0-fo100!7i6080!8i3040?hl=en&entry=ttu">Annecy
"where’s that place with the church in the middle of the river, that is stunning."
Annecy, it's the Palais de l'ile, an old prison
I think it might be even worse without motos to marginally part the crowds. Pissed people make really poor decisions
... though that was great, toJV
where’s that place with the church in the middle of the river, that is particulary stunning amongst so may stunning vistas.
Fixed it for you! I think that's the Palais de l'Isle, the old fort in Annecy, if I'm not mistaken.
Edit - beaten to it by Klunk & tfelotthgir. More coffee needed!
the second toughest stage of the tour with 4483m of climbing 😀
Let's hope WvA & Pidcock have both had their extra Weetabix this morning.
Highly recommend a stay in Annecy on a visit to the Alps from Geneva. Beautiful place full of beautiful people. The local cycling is very good too.
I do wonder if drones might replace camera bikes and at least reduce the number that are on the road
On closed events like CX, XC and DH, they're brilliant - the dinky drones now have really good cameras and are very fast and can be flown along prescribed routes with escape options so they follow riders but are never above riders or crowds.
In uncontrolled airspace, above crowds and with heliocopters using the same airspace, it's a really bad idea. Plus the resources you'd need to get dozens of drone pilots out along the course is an extra hurdle that no-one really needs.
But yeah, they could do with removing some of the the motos and maybe feeding standard images to all the media rather than having motos for every media organisation.
Suspect today will be a bit of a damp squib with the GC guys having a day off and a breakaway of the usual suspects going up the road. Pidcock might give the breakaway a go if he's recovered from yesterday's horror show, but I doubt it.
Excluding those motos for a stag (along with a fine) seems fair. I thought Tadej was very gracious when he was asked after the stage if he was blocked. Classy, considering the possible damage - I'd be livid.
some teeth are back in
Those last two climbs are separated by less than 1km and taken together look pretty tasty.
peloton ain't sitting up so far, with Wout pulling on the front now a big split in the peloton!
Lol @ the panic in the cars
didnthurt
Full Member
Highly recommend a stay in Annecy on a visit to the Alps from Geneva. Beautiful place full of beautiful people. The local cycling is very good too.
Indeed. It's a stunning place, even in the winter months.
Hopefully Pidders will have had a good night's rest and he can cope better with the heat and the harsh pace from yesterday, today may be slightly slower (fingers crossed).
that's just mean, leaving one rider out on his own 😀
now it's back to normal.
There's a lot of tired riders!
That front group is more a split in the peloton, it's too big to work. Attacks off the front of it, attacks behind to try and bring it back...
fricking 'ell going to more domestiques up the road than in the peloton
another big crash 🙁
jumbo visma rider went down hard
****ing selfie!!!
That looked deliberate? The hand came out just as the rider was approaching?
Tadej is such a star! Some amazing words from him there
That looked deliberate?
Yeah, looked like a poorly timed attempt at a back slap, maybe. Completely avoidable, whatever the motive.
Yet another crash due to a narcissistic selfie taker
Effing ridiculous fan behaviour yet again. Beyond stupidity.
It was very, very close to the fan nearly bringing down the Yellow Jersey due to the chain reaction that followed the initial Jumbo rider hitting the deck and taking out the riders further left.
Pidcock apparently had a moan about the race leaders yesterday getting a tow off the motorbikes on the descent. Maybe they were making up for getting in Pogacar's way. 🤷♂️
@45.8636663,6.2034604,3a,75y,246.23h,89.16t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipPldoB5wCb3xyMOCEHhE6JGY8rPBtiy4IfYzQaW!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipPldoB5wCb3xyMOCEHhE6JGY8rPBtiy4IfYzQaW%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya232.35605-ro-0-fo100!7i9728!8i3552?authuser=0&entry=ttu">nice view from the last chateau
There's a few different La Forclaz place names in france.
I've cycled that one albeit the other way round. It's quite steep in places.
I like these days where you get two races for the price of one. First the race for the stage win and another for the overall.
I reckon another stalemate between the race leads today.
It’s Jumbo v UAE at both ends of the race!
ffs
All setup for a Wout masterclass? Either that or he'll blow up early..
and then catch back up again with his second wind 😀
blimey this is a bit of a snorter !
clever(er) from UAE and vingo doing well to resist the temptation to close up
oh, look, a spanner in the works
Pog looks weary all the way up there. He wasn't in control today at all.
What a stage and what at ride from wout pouls
gruelling
yeah, seemed that attack was mostly gestural
psychological advantage with Jonas
a little risky from Jumbo there with Wout up road, had Jonas run into difficulty they would had looked pretty foolish.
for the second day running it looked like if Vingo had been brave enough he could have actually gapped Pog on the final climb.
a little risky from Jumbo there with Wout up road, had Jonas run into difficulty they would had looked pretty foolish.
Alternatively as jumbo visma have done before. Had him drop back from. His attacking and sort it out.
This is how I thought yesterday would play out. Let the breakaway hoover up any bonus seconds then battle it out on the last climb.
I think Vingagaard is almost letting Pogacar wear himself out with all these max sprint attacks ahead of the time trial. I can see Pogacar going into the time trial as favourite but actually losing time to Vingagaard. Vingagaard will then shadow Pogacar until Paris and taking yellow by mere seconds.
Essentially another grand tour coming down to a time trial to seperate the top two steps of the podium.
And if it's still just a matter of a few seconds between them will there be a proper race in Paris?
I can see Pogacar going into the time trial as favourite but actually losing time to Vingagaard.
Pogacar isn't going in as favorite for the tt though.
And if it’s still just a matter of a few seconds between them will there be a proper race in Paris?
That would be interesting, it'd have to go against all the "tradition" of the Tour for the last however many years where Yellow is sorted on the previous day.
Although I'm not sure if anyone has ever crashed out on the final day - what would happen for example if a jersey holder were to crash at 10km to go, even if they were able to remount and finish 5' down?!
Alternatively as jumbo visma have done before. Had him drop back from. His attacking and sort it out.
if he'd have popped or had a mechanical half way up the final climb it would have been too late to drop back, you'd have to wait for already blown riders to come up.
A different scenario and last day format... but the last day in 1989 was a TT where Greg Lemond anded up winning from Laurent Fignon by 8 seconds.
if he’d have popped or had a mechanical half way up the final climb it would have been too late to drop back, you’d have to wait for already blown riders to come up
I'm sure that might have been the case but I doubt WvA would have been able to do much in those sort of events anyway. I was more envisaging the more realistic UAE attacks from earlier on down the hill and kuss and vinnegard need more firepower to close it up
Pogacar isn’t going in as favorite for the tt though.
Where you reading this?
If I was going by previous form then I'd go Pogacar.
https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider-vs-rider/tadej-pogacar/jonas-vingegaard-rasmussen
Have you read the data or just the headline numbers on that ?
Folks Looking at statistics without looking at the data is how the bookies make their money.
(It's interesting to read)
Rouleur have vinegaard down as favorite
They don't sound too sure to me.
Both riders have shown exceptional strength in the mountains, but with this being the first time trials of this year’s edition, it remains to be seen how they will perform against the clock.
https://www.rouleur.cc/blogs/the-rouleur-journal/tour-de-france-2023-stage-16-preview
It'll be exciting no matter what happens, I'm sure.