[Closed] surfaced for all users....FFS!!!!

Cambridge are mad for this

something about a 2m thing

cheer up, it looks just like the peak district now...

......... and there was me thinkng that he councils didn't have enough money! Obvously they've got loads gong spare if they can afford this sort of 'thing'.

It looks better than half the roads round here

Where's that RD?

Councillor Ron Davies has recently done a bit of this around our way on trails we've been using for years, and gets a bit stroppy if he sees bikers on them.Probably worried we might catch him and his mates "looking for badgers".

Bizarre that the landowner would agree to it.

interesting, no crossfall, the vegetation on the low side is higher than the track and no use of dgalumps (drainage lumps) to get the water off......it'll be in a worse state by the time you've had a few summer downpours!
Hey ho money well spent, just spent an afternoon visiting a site thats already showing signs of water erosion after only being down 3-4 months!

who is this supposed to improve things for?

I would have thought the local horse riders would be up in arms about that, long open grassy stretch to gallop up and down on replaced with hard crushed stone?
Is it a farm access track?

You're looking glimpse in to the future! Take heart in that once built they will never maintain it and nature will eventually do its thing.

Cambridgeshire County Council have done lots of this round here.

One particular bridleway used to be just a nice grassy lane, with a muddy section at the lowest point.

They had some money to improve countryside access for the new town of Northstowe. So they ripped it up, dumped a mixture of rubble, bits of plastic and general crud on it, covered it in gravelly crud and earth and then waited for Winter.

Winter duly came and it's now a churned up mess. I used to be able to cycle along without putting a foot down (it's only a bridleway next to a field) but that's impossible now. The middle section after some rain is just glooptastic mudfest madness.

This is a photo of an earlier section where it's actually passable. It's just ugly.

[img] [/img]

I've come to suspect that the people who work in Cambridgeshire County Council actively dislike the countryside.

EDIT: they cause way more damage than MXers ever could.

it starts as an access track then just becomes a bridleway, out of the 8 miles length i'd say 1/2 of it is now like the above with plans to make it 100%, i spoke to 2 folks walking it and both were a bit bewildered by it, there's been no consultation and it's not a sustrans cycleway or anything, must have cost 1000'S!

Have something similar up Edinburgh way recently - they've been tarmac-ing the Union Canal towpath near Hermiston. Used to be compacted gravel/earth with grassy bits, nicely drained - now flat ugly tarmac - no doubt soon to be covered in glass courtesy of the locals. Not sure who I should be complaining to, I'd rather they fixed the roads than mess up the paths.

I found something similar happening on one of 'my' trails on Wednesday. Its a bridleway, well used by horses, well drained as its chalk underneath, and not particularly rough, just what you'd expect given the horses. But they are busy covering it with a chalky rubble, and cutting back the trees. Looks like the're planning to get larger traffic along it. Of course, come winter the new surface will become a horrible gooey mess, far worse than at the moment. 🙄

hampshire cc have done something similar[url= http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=453030&y=127860&z=120&sv=453030,127860&st=4&ar=y&mapp=map.srf&searchp=ids.srf&dn=831&ax=453030&ay=127860&lm=0 ]here[/url]

i'm assuming it's unfinsihed seeing as the digger is parked blocking the BW 🙄 but it was barely ridable last night; imagine 4 inch deep uncompacted chalk rubble. it was a bit muddy/ churned up before but it didn't need this!

Classic council rules - "we've got £150k left in the ROW budget, if we don't use it by 1st April we lose it"

Edric 64

so cripples and window lickers can have access....This inclusive access thing has gone to far the government need to realize that some people are just not able to do some things

like realise some people are less fortunate than they are, maybe a reasonable point but nil points on style

That path is so cripples and window lickers can have access .They will tarmac the path up Snowdon next and put in a handrail.This inclusive access thing has gone to far the government need to realize that some people are just not able to do some things

delicately put. 😆

If that was my local riding RD, I'd quite possibly kill myself anyway, so a bit of hardcore covering the track would be of little consequence.

Surely it's predescesor can't really be described as singletrack. Can it?

Interesting piece of 'singletrack' you've got there...what with all those rocks, roots and....turns.

You are a lucky guy.

😉

IGMC

better read the original post guys 🙂

anyway, roots and turns etc???

dictionary.com says...
[b]
sin·gle-track? ?/?s??g?l?træk/ Show Spelled[sing-guhl-trak] Show IPA
–adjective
1.(of a railroad or section of a railroad's route) having but one set of tracks, so that trains going in opposite directions must be scheduled to meet only at points where there are sidings.
2.having a narrow scope; one-track: He has a single-track mind[/b]

I did. It's just the edge of a muddy field.

It is a local authority's responsibility to maintain bridleways to ensure that all users can access them, so they are stuck in a tricky position there. 'Improve' it and annoy some riders, or leave it and get hit by the wrath of the red socks.

It is a local authority's responsibility to maintain bridleways to ensure that all users can access them, so they are stuck in a tricky position there.

Is it?, I always thought it was the responsibility of the landowner to maintain bridleway/footpath so that it was 'useable' i.e. free of obsructions, not ploughed up etc. Rights of way team are just to ensure this is being done.

As has been said numerous times they'll never maintain that, it'll be back to normal in no time!
Why don't they spend there money (and the same team of people!) fixing bloody potholes instead!!

Gary - The council did the same to a bridleway near me about 18 months ago. They widened it and covered the surface with a gravel made up of stones as big as a raspberry. The difference with this track to the one in your picture though is it points downhill and there are twists and turns along the length. It's a popular BW with local riders and because of the gradient and the turns the bridleway surface has cut up nicely to make it entertaining again.

The bridleway now has berms in the corners with braking bumps before you enter the corners, imagine the sort of surface you find at trail centres.

It seems to me that somebody must have permissive access to drive along the bridleway in your picture that has been 'improved'. A few trips across that in a Disco and it wont be so flat and feature-less.

Have you considered that it may have been a local farmer or resident who has done this and not the council?

i don't think it's for vehicle access as i counted 6 brand new metal gates (the type easily used by horses/walkers/cyclists etc, but not a vehicle) that have replaced the rickety wooden "style" type ones that were there before

FFS do they learn NOTHING?!?!

They destroyed the ridgeways (archaeologically significant) original state like this.

After they graded (like above) it you could drive a normal passenger car along it, people did and it was not uncommon to then find burnt out cars all the way along it. oh and then rave culture sprang up and to prevent illegal raves in the middle of nowhere they had to make the routes impassable...

So then they had to find a way to make the route still passable for agricultural traffic but impassable for passenger cars. The "softened" areas, dug them down, buried porous matting and they tried different soil types, where the Ridgeway joined any metaled road.

Then after some years had passed and these works blended in a "walking group" pronounced these areas to be "unacceptable damage" and used this and other examples* to ensure that 99% of the UK's national trail network be closed to motor vehicles.

*yes some areas were damaged by irresponsible use, there's always a few idiots in every pursuit.

Now I no longer drive a 4x4, I used to and sometimes I'd take less able bodied mates out in it just so they could get away from the urban environment, go and eat lunch miles from anyone or anything and feel just a bit free, it was good. That said what you're witnessing is the selfish, greedy, bureaucratic, boys own club bastardization that is slowly and doggedly going to make an ugly mess across what we once knew to be the countryside. And then in time when people start to think "oh that little road has always been there", say in about 20 years, planning permission won't be too hard to wangle as access won't be an issue and all those cronies will be able to retire from westminster back to a 'sanitized' countryside in their nice new hideaway safe in the knowledge that they have a couple of ransom strips set aside.

not that I'm bitter, oh no, vogon bastards.

+1 Mr Nutt, Ridgeway has been a joke for a long time.

BTW were you Mad Mac M****ty in a former life?

I'm not Scottish if that helps? 😀

That's a pretty good rant there Mr Nutt, but I think you need a few more mis-spellings and a few choice swear words to really show you mean it.

2/10

Who are 'they' btw? Are 'they' the same people that did the work near Cambridge and 'they' also did what you describe on the Ridgeway some years ago? I didn't think Cambridgeshire County Council did work for Berkshire.

It's all a massive conspiracy 😉

That's Warwick to Kenilworth, isn't it? Actually, Kenilworth to Warwick in the direction of the photo. It's part of one of my regular rides, which used to be a real fitness challenge in the winter just because of the soft going - now it's just like riding along a road. A huge waste of money in the current climate (in any climate really) - and when we are being told that councils are strapped for cash it just beggars belief.

yup Warwick to Kenilworth, as you'll know there is a dearth of rideable stuff in the area and even as said above it's not exactly trail centre standard you ride what you have and make the best of it, now even that is being taken away.

btw where else do you go on your rides, be cool to make a loop rather than out and back

its all tied into the highways agency... ...the truth is out there 😉

See if you can find out what materials they are using - there have been reported instances of carcinogens leeching out of cinder paths and the like...

Have something similar up Edinburgh way recently - they've been tarmac-ing the Union Canal towpath near Hermiston. Used to be compacted gravel/earth with grassy bits, nicely drained - now flat ugly tarmac - no doubt soon to be covered in glass courtesy of the locals. Not sure who I should be complaining to, I'd rather they fixed the roads than mess up the paths.

That would be British Waterways rather than the council though surely? I avoid the canal as I can't be bothered battling with walkers at weekends, but I know another cyclist who is looking forward to a clean smooth surface on his hybrid.

It'll be back to singletrack in a year. Unless you've got thousands of people using it the grass will grow back (happened near me).

The biggest tragedy is the complete waste of money that could have been used so much more constructively. Well I suppose that's what councils are for.

We've had the opposite in South Warks / North Ox. Last autumn a number of the well established and hardened up field edge paths were ploughed up right to the hedge - completely in contravention of the country code. I complained to the council, who are pretty responsive on path maintenance, but not much they could do really as the damage was done. Thank goodness it was a well frozen winter, and now there is enough crop showing to make it rideable even in the wet.
And one of our favourite single track sections in the woods on Edge Hill has been ripped up by forestry work. I tried to report this also, but on checking the map found it wasn't even marked as a ROW. Oops. I think we'll carry on using it though 😈

Damn, I always thought MTBs were morally superior as we don't need someone to lay miles of tarmac to facilitate our sport. But this sucks ass!

Its nothing to do with the Highways Agency!

I'm not saying what has been done above is a shining example of 'upgrading' a bridleway, but if the local authority are trying to improve it, what would you suggest to them? The BW should be open to walkers, horses and bikes moving in two directions, so where it's possible to do so, they'll make it wide enough for users to pass in opposite directions.

it didn't need touching at all imo, i'm sure the horse riders think the same, walkers? would they really want to walk on tarmac across country?

grtdkad - do you have any references for the carcinogenic path reports?

RD, the track in your original post is part of this route http://explore.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/os_routes/show/3501, and this rather longer one http://explore.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/os_routes/show/8980 - does that help?

The BW should be open to walkers, horses and bikes moving in two directions, so where it's possible to do so, they'll make it wide enough for users to pass in opposite directions.

really? see I'm more of the opinion that they are old roads/routes that should only be cleared of excess foliage and obstructions, leave them to nature and enjoy them as you find them rather than turn them into highways. But thats just me I guess.

Can't see it happening here not enough users for them to consider them doing that. Anyway least now you'll get off that dull looking trail a bit quicker. 😉

well i guess i know what i'm up against, on one of the trails in the above link (thanks onewheelgood) i passed 4 riders on hybrids, it was a very muddy narrow bridleway, we had to stop to pass, so i asked which direction they were headed, they said to Hatton, so i said "you know the route has been tarmacd", they replied, "oh yes, it's much better now, no mud at all" so i guess that's who it's designed for 🙁

Just been up Hailes (Glos). It used to be a nice rocky climb/descent, became even more knarly after the floods in 2007. But today...

[img] [/img]

Sanitised, you could do it on a road bike.

[i]Can't see it happening here not enough users for them to consider them doing that. [/i]
Wish you were right Drac, but the genius that is the County Hall ROW dept are ploughing ahead with their plans to completely arse up the ROW network just down the road from you, despite carrying out a [extremely limited] “public” consultation in which most responses were critical of their policies.

Over the past 18 months or so, they've felled km's of trees, removed countless tonnes of rock, dug up several old cobbled cart tracks and levelled off vegetation to a width of at least 3m (more usually 5m with large drainage channels – think [i]large[/i] forestry roads), followed by the infilling and grading of what is left. The result is transforming (and will continue to transform) singletrack and doubletrack into the roads like those in the pictures above, all of this within or on the border of an AONB and crossing several SSSI's and/or conservation areas. As grahamh says above, the only thing they're good for is a road bike- or as a farmer said to me, rollerblading. If any other body/organisation was responsible they'd be absolutely slaughtered (and rightly so) for the unjustifiable environmental damage caused, but the local dept. is completely unnacountable. Their level of ineptitude and lack of understanding of what people want from their ROW is sickening- and the same folk are deciding on the policies for round your way too. 🙁

grahamh - Member

Just been up Hailes (Glos). It used to be a nice rocky climb/descent, became even more knarly after the floods in 2007. But today...

Its been repaired so that all users can use it.

FFS - one persons gnarly rocky trail is anothers eroded mess. Often photos are put up on here of "gnarly rocky trails" that clearly are eroded away and unsustainable - and are not passable by horses which is how bridleways are defined is it not?

The over repaired ones will soon soften and blend in again as vegitation grows over the edges. If you want rocky trails suitable for hardcore MTBs only then go to trail centres - otherwise either get involved with local local groups or shut up whinging

thomthumb - Member
hampshire cc have done something similarhere

i'm assuming it's unfinsihed seeing as the digger is parked blocking the BW but it was barely ridable last night; imagine 4 inch deep uncompacted chalk rubble. it was a bit muddy/ churned up before but it didn't need this!

Be intreasting to see how long that last then as that is very heavely used bit of track being the SDW and all.
I take you ride around this area then Thomthumb?

So, apart from posting irate comments on STW, what do we do?

Petition on the Number 10 thing?
Writing letters to MPs?
Everyone gets a MX bike and puts the trails back to how they should be?
Burn down county hall and put the heads of the ROW officers on long spikes?

Jebus...

I agree with TJ - 100% 😯

Hell truly must have frozen over! 😀

Where's that at crouch?

Its been repaired so that all users can use it.

thomthumb - Member
hampshire cc have done something similarhere

i'm assuming it's unfinsihed seeing as the digger is parked blocking the BW but it was barely ridable last night; imagine 4 inch deep uncompacted chalk rubble. it was a bit muddy/ churned up before but it didn't need this!

Was over there today and managed to ride it. It always was overgrown and became very muddy but then it's well tramped.

Loads of angst in Hampshire today, reckon that Chilterns miserablitis virus has headed South 🙄

Hang on a minute CG, where exactley do you stand on this subject? a few weeks ago you were campaining to get various bridleways local to me surfaced in this exact manner.

@Drac- SW N'land.

TJ and Zulu, there's a massive difference between enabling all relevant "user groups" to use a particular route sustainably and the disproportionate actions seen above. Routes that are being damaged through use may justifiably and reasonably require repair (or alternatively, individuals to understand how their actions may contribute to this damage and alter their behaviour accordingly), but the action carried out by various authorities seen on this and similar threads is completely OTT.

To give you an idea, the scale of development that I'm describing is greater than the infrastructure used in the construction of forestry roads in many instances. If a landowner (for example) carried out this type of work they may be (and have been) prosecuted. It is out of scale, environmentally insensitive, and irreversible- how many Forestry Commission roads do you see [i]softening and blending in[/i], the fate you envisage of these routes?

As for your trail centre comment, people have been riding pretty much any route in the UK for generations long before "hardcore mtbs" (wtf?) and "trail centres" were a twinkle in any eye. Are we to expect that because trail centres now exist, all other routes should be entirely robbed of any individual characteristics? (even as grahamh points out, in many cases all (legal) users are using the routes in question in a largely sustainable manner) Seeing as treadmills and climbing walls exist, perhaps we should be lobbying for the levelling off of Striding Edge (handrail anyone?) and a stairlift up the best routes in the northern corries? After all, treadmills and stairlifts would be the analogue of trail centres for walkers and climbers.

slimraybob - Member
Hang on a minute CG, where exactley do you stand on this subject? a few weeks ago you were campaining to get various bridleways local to me surfaced in this exact manner.

Sorry but what bridleways in particular (not sure where you are)? I ride in a lot of different places!

CG The proposed Shiprights Way, a route that is currently bridleway and country lane and is rideable as is. I am based near Petersfield

Apologies but my comment re SDW may have been misleading, it was meant tongue-in-cheek as the work has not finished. 🙂

I keep meaning to ride The Shipwright's Way, have done bits of it. Surely any surfacing/resurfacing will evolve over time into something quite different?

[b] If you want rocky trails suitable for hardcore MTBs only then go to trail centres [/b]

that is possibly the stupidest thing i've seen TJ write, and that's saying something, back under your bridge, there's a good old boy

RD - not referring to your trail in that pic but making a general point. As crouch potato says these trails have been ridden for decades - but on rigid thin tyred bikes. Many folk post up on here pics of trails that are eroded messes that they like 'cos they are rocky. Councils have an obligation to keep the bridleways in good repair - if you want an eroded rocky mess then you cannot expect that on a trail that is open to all users hecne the comment about going to trail centres if you want a challenge for a 6" travel MTB- its a selfish point of view that wants trails that are only suitable for long travel MTBs but are impassible for horses and difficult for walkers

Its about sharing - and yes these over engineered resurfaced paths will blend in over time - I have seen it happen.

don't whinge about it act. Get on the local consultative groups, make your point heard - but don't expect your rocky eroded mess to be kept for your playground when its a route for all.

Its been repaired so that all users can use it.

If you think that sort of surface 'repair' is ok, would you be happy for them to do it to all ROW around your way so everyone can access them?

Councils have an obligation to keep the bridleways in good repair - if you want an eroded rocky mess

There are plenty of different types of places people can go to get their fix, why does good money have to be spent making bridleways look like canal tow paths?

One of my favorite piece was done like that years ago - as have many others. They blend back in over time. If the use is unsustainable and the erosion has reached a point where repair is needed what should happen - leave it to erode away so no walker or horse can use it safely?

Its cyclical thing. erosion, repair and erosion again

No such thing as rights of way round here tho no any obligation on councils to repair bridleways to a standard suitable for horses as there are no bridleways.

Again - the point is simple - trails need repair and maintenance - if you don't like how it is being done then get involved and make your feelings known.

be warned, Sheffield council have a new tactic;

instead of resurfacing a bridleway (as arguably they have an obligation to do*), just reclassify it as a footpath.

this kind of nonsense is heading to a council near you.

The thing is they are not targeting ROW with serious erosion issues (I can think of plenty in the Peak that are in need of help) but instead are choosing easy to get to bridleways and making them as flat as possible so that wheelchairs, buggies etc can use them just like normal path or road, so that 'all' users can have a piece of the countryside.

agghh!! look what they've done to the lovely bridleway in Claverdon
[img] [/img]
and it isn't for vehicular access as there are anti motorbike/car gates at either end, it's a bridle"motor"way 🙁

I hate all this rubbish too, I hate it as a walker as much as an MTB'er - I like walking along interesting stuff, not awful santised motorways as shown above - completely pointless.

They 'improved' a load of byways and bridleways a few years ago to the SW of Bath in exactly this manner. Shame to loose them, as it'll take many many years for them to get back to where they were. Even at the peak of erodedness you could get a rigid MTB up/down them, horses could get by fine with care, I guess it was getting difficult for argricultural access on the byways. Yet they were eroded enough to be ace on more modern mtbs.

The other side of the coin is that it just drives more cheeky trail usage, as riders go get their 'natural' trail kicks on footpaths etc.

Baffling. As a walker, horse rider and MTBer it makes absolutely no sense to me. A sure-footed horse and competent rider can handle pretty much anything short of a black run so there's no point 'improving' it for them, likewise any walker.