So here's the idea. Use strava api to pull segments near an area.
Pull the top 3 KOM/QOM times, ideally using published power but if necessary strava estimate.
Compare these to a user's inputted best power for the duration (or closest duration).
Return the segments the user should, all things being equal, to go KOM.
E.g. If I find a segment of about 30 seconds; as long as it doesn't require significantly more than 800W I should be able to take it with a guiding wind. It should be easy to pull similar segments!
Or you could just, you know... Not waste your precious time on Earth.
Get a girlfriend.
What about the gnar though?
How do you quantify the gnarlyness and my gnar ability to find me suitable gnar to destroy?
You can already do something like this with Veloviewer.
Sounds like it'll need a weather API as well.
If Koms mean that. Much you could just edit your .fit file. It's not that dissimilar to needing a guiding wind.
I quite like the idea, although Im a geek. So in response to the other posters:
Getting one girlfriend was hard enough, and its not cheating just balancing brain power against brawn!
It will need a gravel plugin too, there's loads of segments with KOMs on MTBs that could comfortably be beaten even by relative mortals on gravel/cross bikes.
It's easy to lose your biking mojo. If this keeps you riding when you can't ride with your mates then that's got to be a good thing.
I remember when strava was just for downhills!
https://www.segmentninja.com/ was a great little app that showed you which segments were easier to challenge, sadly site died ~2 years ago.
I remember when strava was just for uphills!
FTFY 😉
there’s loads of segments with KOMs on MTBs that could comfortably be beaten even by relative mortals on gravel/cross bikes.
There's a segment near us that follows an undulating green lane. I went for it on the FS and got 7th (out of about 2000) went back a few weeks later on singlespeed CX and got what would have been 15th time. My fastest time was still some way off the KOM which is held by one of the local CX hot-shots, well he's won the Three Peaks a few times so he's probably legit!
Or you could just, you know… Not waste your precious time on Earth.
He says, wasting his precious time posting on a forum.
Honestly I struggle to motivate myself to do structured training outside on a bike in the UK. None of the climbs are really long enough, there's traffic and traffic lights everywhere. Dumb strava KOMs at the right intensity are an excellent way to find a good place to do intervals.
Also, a second girlfriend? Do you actually want to go riding? Buy more bikes?
Theres a few round here, bits of gravel road that dont really go anywhere and arent technical enough to need an MTB so dont attract people either looking for something to ride or feature on a big day out loop.
Im a few seconds off KOM on a few, just need to make an actual note where they start rather than my usual thing of remembering halfway up and sprinting fot the top.
And a few others where I know the KOM and know I should at least be able to give them a run for their money. Just need to wait for the right conditions (tailwind and a dry spell to shift the loose surface).
It's not cheating, I imagine most KOMs were probably set in fairly optimum conditions whether by intention or açcident!
The only condition that is fair for the taker, but unfair to reproduce is motorpacing. Lucky car heading up this climb? Not unfair to chase it. Getting your (first, second?) girlfriend to drive up a climb with the boot open? A bit weird.
If you could add the predicted wind speed and direction into the equation you’d be onto a winner I reckon!
you’d be onto a winner I reckon!
Yep, assuming that by "winner", you mean "sad pathetic loser".
Veloviewer is a great tool.
I’ve been keeping motivated by the old fashioned “matesrace” style event that unfortunate no longer exists as a Strava plugin. So we’ve been doing it manually....
Basically a few of us been picking a handful of segments (all uphill) and then choosing a day to ride them (on our own obv) and then adding up the combined times to see who is quickest.
When we’ve not been doing that I’ve been chasing my own PR’s and some local KOMs.
tbh the only part of strava i used to use was the "people im following" leaderboards , as a useful measure of where i sit vs my peers.
Strava have removed that from the app now so its somewhat useless to me - unless i log into a computer not at work- which is rare.
If you could add the predicted wind speed and direction into the equation you’d be onto a winner I reckon!
You mean such as https://mywindsock.com/segment/9961336/ ? As in give site a Strava segment link and it predicts your time given current conditions and your estimated power and weight.
I finally lost that KOM just recently*, while having no idea what the KOM time was back in summer 2018, if (and it's a very big if currently) I could average 304W in theory it says I could complete the climb in ~8mins2secs.
* Most riders that are KOM chasing or hill training simply go all out to that left turn just before the summit of Wheely Down, none of the local W/Kg aliens have had a "serious" attempt all the way to Beacon Hill car park.
@trail_rat "Following" segment comparison quick link in Android Strava app link is still there for me.
Problem with the concept is that not many KOMs have an accurate power figure to base your effort on. Strava power is obviously not accurate as it does not take into account weather conditions.
Do you have Strava premium and use the star segments to give you a live pacing on the segments? I was thinking of trying this as you can get a free trial.
Strava have removed that from the app
Still on the Android app.
not on mine its not .... and its bang up to date.
It will need a gravel plugin too, there’s loads of segments with KOMs on MTBs that could comfortably be beaten even by relative mortals on gravel/cross bikes.
Ssshhh. That is where most of my KOMs came from, now lost to fast road riders who have now got gravel bikes. My ego is now very bruised, even got overtaken by a person on gravel bike on Sunday when I was going at a good speed (for me). The sooner this gravel trend is over and they all get back to their road bikes the better...
The following tab is on my iOS app, but I have summit. Is it a paid-for feature now?
Edit: or just go to the site in a browser on you phone?
there’s loads of segments with KOMs on MTBs that could comfortably be beaten even by relative mortals on gravel/cross bikes.
Those KOMs are all I have! It's becoming a real chore finding 'virgin' gravel segments that haven't already been ridden by someone else on a gravel bike.
Edit: beaten to it by Kerley 😀
Yep, assuming that by “winner”, you mean “sad pathetic loser”.
So much bitterness! Did you hold a few KOMs on your MTB and find them taken from you by gravel riders? 😉 It's all just trying to ride bikes fast at the end of the day, no point pretending we don't all enjoy a bit of silly competition
Just buy an ebike. seems that what most folk round here are doing. smashing koms with a motor.
Strava Koms are finished now. so just settle on personel records for knowing how you are doing with fitness.
being curious went and looked.
it seems that its down to the fact i'm pretty much exclusively riding on zwift - and that feature doesnt exist on zwift.
If i scroll back to my last outdoor ride its there.
thank goodness.
What's peeing on my bonfire at the mo' is their auto flagging feature they've introduced. I've recently had 3 rides flagged for apparently being in a motor vehicle. I know it wasn't some bitter person as the KOM's were mine to begin with, I'd just improved my times by a couple of seconds. Another was from 7 years ago and you'd struggle to get a bike along there now let alone a vehicle.
I don't think there's a huge amount to be gained from gravel/CX (yeah I'm sure it's a couple of % quicker but not insurmountable differences). I base this on a Strava rivalry I had on one segment a few years back, a guy who I'm fairly sure was faster than me and was using a CX bike on the climb, me on a not particularly light MTB (though it was fitted with quite fast rolling tyres which made a big difference). ~20% smoothish landrover track, 30% rocky landrover track, 50% tarmac, all climb.
I think he got it back, must have another shot at it. We spent a good couple of months taking 30s out of each other each time.
Also, this app would be worthwhile, because the easy KOMs are generally ones not many people have ridden. Using the segment explorer feature often ignores all the off road segments anyway, let alone the unpopular ones 🙂
Edit - I have a soon to be ex wife and a girlfriend. All three of us recognise that chasing Strava segments is silly. But the girlfriend does it too!
Dumb strava KOMs at the right intensity are an excellent way to find a good place to do intervals.
But Strava KOMs by their nature are all out, eyes popping out your head intensity. To do intervals properly they are a measured intensity within a small range just below or just above a threshold to provide maximum gains. The two things are not compatible.
But Strava KOMs by their nature are all out, eyes popping out your head intensity. To do intervals properly they are a measured intensity within a small range just below or just above a threshold to provide maximum gains. The two things are not compatible.
If you don't think all out efforts provide any gains, you've not tried it. Obviously not every ride, and with appropriate recovery.
no point pretending we don’t all enjoy a bit of silly competition
This i get, for sure I'm chuffed if I do well on a popular segment. But what i think is totally pointless is going out of ones way to target a specific segment , particularly one that I have a chance of taking (which by default means none of the fast locals have ridden up).
If i happen across a popular segment that's already on my ride ill definitley push myself, but I wouldn't plan a route around one.
As for Kom collecting, I'm pretty sure there are dozens round my way i could have a very realistic chance of getting as i pass through then regularly on my daily rides. But they are the obscure segments that are totally pointless, ie between 2 random buildings that someone has picked out. All the good local segments are well known, and I don't need an app to tell me about them.
I moved to the Peak District at the begining of last year. I then made an effort to hide every single segment and then unhide the meaningful, well thought out ones. It's nice to get back from a ride and see just a handful of segments rather than a bazillion segments of tripe. I then "star" those segments and can use veloviewer to give a visial map of just those.
The wind then dictates where I go....
The speed of a gravel bike is weird. I ride both and even on long segments when you feel like your really slow on the downs you end up faster overall
Not that I trouble any leader boards
Are roadies generally fitter than mountain bikers. I'm generally midish table up hill on on an MTB. On the road (on a gravel bike) some what less flattering. Not that i use Strava to flatter my ego...
Did you hold a few KOMs on your MTB and find them taken from you by gravel riders?
Nope.
If you're chasing a KOM then just go with whatever bike does it fastest for you.
it never works, i was having this discussion today. I stopped using strava about 2-3 years ago and then for reasons that i cant remember decided to come back to it a few weeks ago.
Looking at some "combined" segments, i.e.those that have segments within them, the indivudual segment times do not add up to the combined segment time. So, you can have 1 person seemingly blisteringly quick over the 3-4 combined segments, yet on each individual segment they could be well down the rankings even though it's one continous segment, go figure??
anyway back to the original point from the OP, too many variables to add in when it may well best suit you - do you like riding in the wet or dry is one - makes a massive difference.
Are roadies generally fitter than mountain bikers.
IME yep, and not by a small amount.
e.g. I can be around the top 20% at Swinley and things like trying to do a 1h lap were a target. that corresponded to struggling off the back of the "steady" Sunday clubrun (lowest of the 3 speeds).
That and roadies obviously cover a lot more distance, round here 5,000+ riders isn't uncommon on a hill because every club in a 40mile radius has probably done it at some point on a clubrun, plus a few sportives. As a result there's probably less of a spread of times, you're either fast-ish, or not there. Whereas Swinely, the bottom half of the leaderboard probably stopped for a break half way.
Are roadies generally fitter than mountain bikers.
Yes.
Road riding is relentless. On a four hour ride with no stops you are pedalling 90% + of the time. That and road gearing....
MTB`ers, with the exception of the very fit fast xc racers, are generally pedalling to the top of a hill (assuming they aren't getting a lift in a van) and then fre wheeling back down.
There is nothing else to do on a road bike but stare at your power meter, HR, GPS - so it does lend itself to becoming a fitness tool. Whereas MTB riding tends to be more about messing around in the woods and trying daft lines, exploring, looking at the view.
The top MTB riders, Nino Schurter and the like, will be very fit - they have to be, but it will be a subtly different kind of "fit" to World Tour riders. Schurter's FTP works out at around 5.5W/kg and Chris Froome's is 6W/kg so given that Schurter isn't aiming at Grand Tours he isn't that far off but he's likely to have more upper body strength than Froome.
Look at the power/fitness distribution and roadies will follow the standard distribution bell curve but that for MTBers will be skewed to the lower end because, as above, for many it's about messing about rather than "being fit" even if some fitness develops from it.
e.g. I can be around the top 20% at Swinley and things like trying to do a 1h lap were a target. that corresponded to struggling off the back of the “steady” Sunday clubrun (lowest of the 3 speeds).
Cheers to everyone who answered my question. That fits with my experience although slower
I have a friend who returned from a ride to find a QOM. She was surprised as she would describe her riding as bimbling. More surprising was that the time for the segment included stopping for a cream tea
There's a KOMinator app for android that shows you local segments with ideal win(d) conditions, a must if you're going for flat or non loopy ones.
Honestly I struggle to motivate myself to do structured training outside on a bike in the UK. None of the climbs are really long enough, there’s traffic and traffic lights everywhere. Dumb strava KOMs at the right intensity are an excellent way to find a good place to do intervals
Agreed, it's good fun and motivates you to get out more. Try to mix it up a little, only a couple hills that are reasonably near me though.
Are roadies generally fitter than mountain bikers.
On gravel and off road I have a few KOMs and am typically top 20 from 1,000 or so on most segments. On the road I am usually lucky to be in top 20% and absolutely nowhere near any KOMs (I could excuse myself by blaming my low fixed gear but that doesn't really cover it)
On gravel and off road I have a few KOMs and am typically top 20 from 1,000 or so on most segments. On the road I am usually lucky to be in top 20% and absolutely nowhere near any KOMs (I could excuse myself by blaming my low fixed gear but that doesn’t really cover it)
It's not always just about fitness. I have forgotten how to mountain bike well in the last year or so of road racing and so whilst everywhere but Yorkshire (and, obviously, anywhere the world tour has visited - cheers for taking my local tt segment Dowsett) I can usually top 10/20 most road climbs and segments. This means i'm in for a good run to KOM most non-technical mtb climbs, but on tech descents and climbs I'm barely in the top 20 percent.
He says, wasting his precious time posting on a forum.
He says, proposing to write an app/plugin to optimise KOM sniping, rather than just riding a bike... 😉
Honestly I struggle to motivate myself to do structured training outside on a bike in the UK. None of the climbs are really long enough, there’s traffic and traffic lights everywhere. Dumb strava KOMs at the right intensity are an excellent way to find a good place to do intervals.
Half your motivational excuses are currently null and void, there's barely any traffic and the hills are too short? Surely you can just ride up more of them?
Let's not kid ourselves chasing KOMs isn't "structured training" it's pretend internet competition with strangers. Plus you're not even looking to "train" you're trying to tailor rides to score KOMs as rewards for the minimum possible effort, sort of the opposite of training.
Honestly Nobody has cared about holding a KOM since about 2015. Now all of a sudden we're getting KOM hunter spam threads again, is it lockdown's fault? The fact that it's springtime but all the golf courses are shut or something?
i can imaging this being of use for me.
itll just say no chance all the time.
yet on each individual segment they could be well down the rankings even though it’s one continous segment, go figure??
If for example it's a trail up and over a hill.
Some people will have gunned it to the top, some people will have adopted a "winched and plummet" mentality, both will obviously be well down the rankings for the other segment. And a handful will have raced across the whole thing.
Should try living in Peebles..
Pretty much every KOM/QOM in a 50 mile radius has a Pro/former Pro/former world champ on it, I haven't got a prayer.!
Half your motivational excuses are currently null and void, there’s barely any traffic and the hills are too short? Surely you can just ride up more of them?
Let’s not kid ourselves chasing KOMs isn’t “structured training” it’s pretend internet competition with strangers. Plus you’re not even looking to “train” you’re trying to tailor rides to score KOMs as rewards for the minimum possible effort, sort of the opposite of training.
Honestly Nobody has cared about holding a KOM since about 2015. Now all of a sudden we’re getting KOM hunter spam threads again, is it lockdown’s fault? The fact that it’s springtime but all the golf courses are shut or something?
In your rush to hit your boring denouement, you mistook the two obvious subjects of your surprisingly bitter ire: people who are richer than you and people who are faster than you. Alberto Contador aside, they're mostly different folks.
Part of the problem is the sheer number of segments. Most hills have quite a few - the obvious bottom to top but then you find people have come along, failed to KOM it so they've set up a "bottom to third tree on the left" and "first junction to bend" and God only knows how many other variations on a theme.
Go around Richmond Park and you're scrolling for 20 mins down your Strava record at the end of the ride from the thousands of segments around there. It makes it quite difficult for Strava's segment explorer to throw up anything comprehensive. The only way I find segments worth going for are through complete chance and they're usually mixed road/gravel ones or the longer ones that don't show up on the explorer map.
The Tour of Britain has been through here a few times and a lot of Team GB live in/around South Manchester so none of the road ones are remotely worth going for. ONe of my proudest was a joint KOM I had with Ian Stannard but some other pro battered through it with a massive tailwind a few weeks ago. Bastard. Him, me, Ian Stannard. Not a bad top three. 😉
That all said, the only Strava result I have any pride in is scalping wout van aert in Mallorca. I was something like 546th. 547th was the big man, probably riding up backwards on a wattbike.