[Closed] Stans Flow ZTR tubeless with non-UST tyres?

If your Hope Hoops have Stans rims, they are already 'UST' type. To be clear, you get normal rims, you get UST rims, and tubeless ready rims like Stans are in the middle.

1. You don't need the no tubes rimstrip/kit.
2. Merits: you already own most of the stuff. Cheap (ish) and light.
3. UST rims don't use any tape as they are already air tight, and they don't need sealant as the (heavier and more expensive) tyres are airtight. Though its popular to use sealant anyway for puncture prevention.
4. Wouldn't work without a ghetto or rimstrip and fettling.

Ideally you would go for 2. but get tubeless ready tyres, which are essentially slightly porous versions of UST tyres, they rely on sealant to seal and therefore are cheaper and lighter.

Yeah, sorry, missed an important bit of info there, the current rims are DT Swiss 4.2, so not tubeless

I put a brand new HR2 on a stans rim (with yellow tape and valve) last night, it inflated first try, completely dry with no fairy liquid or sealant. I dumped the air out, put some sealant in and up it went again... still sat at 60psi when I checked it the morning, perfect!

Apart from Spesh (2bliss) Eskars, it was the easiest tubeless inflate I've ever done.

Dave

Thanks alfabus, that's good to know. I might buy a Flow ZTR wheelset and a NoTubes kit.

Dagnamit! You don't need the silly Notubes kit with Stans rims...its expensive and adds weight. It can also make fitting the tyres more difficult as the rimstrip will make the rim well shallower reducing the bead slack.

The no tubes kit is for non-tubeless wheels, or (I believe) Stans rim and tyre combinations where its difficult to get a seal.

If you buy Stans rims, you just need the yellow tape, the specific Stans valves, and sealant.

The Notubes kit would be what you would buy if you want to run your existing DT Swiss wheels as tubeless.

If your order hope hoops they do not inc the yellow tape or valve so
Just remember the get some.
Or if you get the whole stans package with there own hub they will come ready to fit
With tape and valve already fitted

To confuse you further, Stans rims aren't UST. UST is a specific pattern relating to the tyre sidewall/bead and the rim being airtight. Although Stans rims are designed for tubeless with wide, low sides, they don't conform to UST standards and the rims aren't airtight without modification.

modification = yellow tape, and sealant for the tyre. Just in case you were wondering...

Yeah, it's not hard and it's a pretty robust system. Plus significantly lighter than the mavic method of screw-in nipple retainers.

Hence the reference to UST "type" in my OP. Anyway, I now have a standard Notubes kit to try out on a set of DT Swiss 4.2 rims and new 2.4" High Rollers - apparently it should work pretty well.

That's what I have done (Hope Hoops and DT Swiss rims)and it's worked fine on the front allowing lower pressures and weight saving with a Rocket Ron non tubeless tyre. The rear I struggled with though, having to pump it up so much to avoid it deflecting and letting air out.

I gave up with the rear and put a tube in until I take the plunge and buy Stans wheels.

Good luck

Ha, but Spooky, Stans do a Flow ZTR specific Notubes kit with the rim strip included - this is partly what's confused me. Guess this is needed for ZTR rims and a non-UST tyre?

It's not needed, I don't really know why they offer it. they do a £20 kit for Flow rims with valves, yellow tape and sealant. That's all you need.

Update: really frustrating, complete failure so far to seat High Roller MkII 2.4" tyres on a DT Swiss 4.2 rim with a Stan's kit. It isnt even close to inflating with a track pump.

I cant tell if the tyre is on too loose, requiring more yellow tape, as I dont really have any experience of what that would be. It wasnt easy getting the tyre on though, so suspect it is tight enough. To be honest though, I cant see how the wire bead is going to hook onto the rim strip, even with sealant.

I'll maybe try new rims. Watch out for a cheap, almost new, Stan's kit on classified!

Aren't DT4.2's "tubeless ready" in a similar way to Stans?

5.1s definitely are. Used them for years with the DT/Eclipse rimstrip and worked really well.

I thought DT Swiss supplied their own specific rim strip to convert to tubeless?

Yellow tape simply makes the rim air tight and does not aid in inflating the tyre at all, so don't bother adding any more. Similarly, the rim strip is not designed to seat the tyre bead, I've not used them but as I understand it, they just aid inflation and help hold/lock the bead into the rims bead hook once inflated.

Before doing something drastic like buying new rims, have you got any 'experienced tubeless' mates that can give you a hand? Could just be technique/cack handedness 😉

If you watch the videos on Stans site, it explains that the yellow tape , if used with rim strip, is needed to build up the height of the rim strip and to get a tighter fit with the tyre. But in most cases, none should be needed as the existing tape should do the job under the rim strip.

The tyre seems to be pinched together too much, ie too far away from the rims, so I cant see it inflating, certainly not without using a compressor.

I'll talk to a friend who's running tubeless before giving up, quite prepared to accept cack-handedness

Sound's like you need more pressure to get them to seat. Make sure everything is covered in soapy water. Then one trick which I've got to work is to pump like a mad with the floor pump, while simultaneously squeezing the tyre around valve area. This gives an extra little kick of pressure - worked for me after half an hour of failure with just the floor pump.

Sometimes it can be difficult to get a tyre to sear with a track pump. CO2 canisters can be handy for this. Make sure the tyre bead is both sides of the valve before having a go though.

You need a ghetto tubeless inflator 😉

If the tyres are brand new, there may be kinks in the sidewall.

Try putting the tyres on with a tube, inflate up to 60psi and let them sit for a day or two. Then pop the tubes out and try again.

Thanks everyone, I realised this might not be straight forwards. The tyres arent new, but I did run out of washing up liquid, I reckon I need to try using it neat as suggested.

What exactly does the inflating with no-sealant stage do? Is this just to take sure the rim / tyre combo will work and that you have the right amount of rim tape (standard and yellow)? The suggestion is to remove the valve core when inflating, which means air will escape immediately, I'm sure my track pump wont stop this happening, the attachment will just blow off the valve stem before it reaches 40psi.

Is there any point in me inserting the sealant if I havent managed to inflate with rim strip only?

And, if I use CO2, will I probably need to do this on the no-sealant and sealant stage?

Aaah, just seen the thread with instructions on how to make a DIY inflator using a cider bottle and old inner tubes, looks promising.

I put a brand new HR2 on a stans rim (with yellow tape and valve) last night, it inflated first try, completely dry with no fairy liquid or sealant. I dumped the air out, put some sealant in and up it went again... still sat at 60psi when I checked it the morning, perfect!

+1

I dd front and back..... Easy

What exactly does the inflating with no-sealant stage do? Is this just to take sure the rim / tyre combo will work and that you have the right amount of rim tape (standard and yellow)? The suggestion is to remove the valve core when inflating, which means air will escape immediately, I'm sure my track pump wont stop this happening, the attachment will just blow off the valve stem before it reaches 40psi.

Yes

Here is my procedure

Leave tube in over night at 40 psi
Remove tube, put valve in but remove core, make sure you only break one bead
Pump up wth track pump, you should hear the bead popping as it seats
Now you now the tyres works on the rim
Deflate, break a small bit of the bead- enough to get sealant in pump back up until the bead pops on
Now deflate your tyre, don't worry as the beads will still be seated, pop valve core in the pump up and do your swishing or better still go for a ride down the road

I ran ZTR Flows with yellow tape, valves and sealant and they were great for about 4 weeks... then the rear blew clean off the rim with a large bang and a week later the front did the same once they had done it they could be remounted etc and would last 2 rides tops before blowing off the rim once or twice at low speed in a straight line.

Setup :

ZTR Flow
2.4 HR II
Yellow Tape
Stand Valves and Sealant
28psi Max

I have just swopped them out to UST HR and Minion 2.5 combination and I'm hopping for better results the tyres certainly fit the rims better.

I ran ZTR Flows with yellow tape, valves and sealant and they were great for about 4 weeks... then the rear blew clean off the rim with a large bang and a week later the front did the same once they had done it they could be remounted etc and would last 2 rides tops before blowing off the rim once or twice at low speed in a straight line.

Setup :

ZTR Flow
2.4 HR II
Yellow Tape
Stand Valves and Sealant
28psi Max

I have just swopped them out to UST HR and Minion 2.5 combination and I'm hopping for better results the tyres certainly fit the rims better.

Are you kidding????

I've got the same set up and they survived fort William DH track for 2 days riding last week 32psi rear 30psi front

i'd say those tyres are too big for the rim you're using. more tape/rimstrip will help. just sayin'.

SBRock nope unfortunately not :o(

The strange thing is they survived the peaks without issue they have always blown off at low speed.. i had heard nothing but good things which is why i got them, have fitted them myself and the bike shop both with the same issue.

goodgried the have 2 layers of yellow tape currently... so no idea, bad experience i guess.

two layers is still not as thick as one flow rimstrip.
my post was more aimed at the OP with dt4.2 rims btw.

The no sealant stage is to get the tyre seated and sealed on the rim. If you're confident that it'll work first time you can skip this step and stick sealant straight in. But if you're not sure, then it's safer to get the tyre seated first. Once you've done that, you can add the sealant through the valve (with the core removed of course).

My joe blow track pump manages 40 psi with no valve core.

before you give up on the DT swiss \ rim strip combination try inflating with a compressor, with lashings of neat fairy liquid around the bead.

I've never managed to get any tubeless system except proper tubeless rims and UST tyres to seat reliably without a compressor