[Closed] Sram XX - is 2 x 10 the future?

What are the cog sizes on the cassette?

Makes plenty of sense to racers and the weights are looking competitive.

mmm.... The 'groupset' idea doesn't work quite as well for SRAM (in its current state) as for Shimano - SRAM as a brand is just one small part of the whole range, with most riders knowing the brakes better as Avid, the cranks as Truvativ, the forks as Rockshox etc. Does this mark a move towards a single unified brand structure for SRAM?

As for the 10 speed, what does it mean for wheel building? And what's the spread of sprockets?
Personally I'm unconvinced; you would think that the tolerances involved have to reach a logical limit when it comes to wet mud. Plus I reckon that the majority of those going for 2x10 will have come from 2x9 setups, as it's less of a mental shift.
But I'm far from an expert, and interested to see how it flies!

Bearing in mind who this is aimed at, the mud coping qualities are probably assuming a complete strip and rebuild every ride anyway so will likely be fine. Sure this will end up consumer bikes but fools are they...

its more gear that can't be used without servicing every 12 hours of riding

unless you are racing its pretty pointless

why not "crisp and easy shifting" and 9 speed?

Is the gear range different to 3x9? or is it just an extra sprocket?

what sizes are the chainrings/ casette?

doh, read the first page and answered my question!

11-32 and 11-36 cassettes, chain rings are 26-39/ 28-42 or 30-45, it's all on the article now.

It doesn't mention the hydraulic lockout on the forks though, the button appears to be there, but there's shots of the forks around too:

[img] http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/download.php?id=30731 [/img]

Hi Dave

So how does a 26 x 32 cope with proper grinding climbs? I would REALLY have struggled to have gotten up Skiddaw on Saturday using that combination. My 20 x 32 meant that I was able to spin up the climb whereas a 26 would definitely have meant a push. If you are into racing, I can accept that it may make sense but for big mountain rides, it's surely a non starter? It's kind of like the Vauxhall Signum in that it answers a question that no one has asked. It seems daft to potentially limit your enjoyment of a ride by reducing the available spread of gear ratios. Even singlespeeding makes sense but 2 x 10 just doesn't!!!!!!

While I'm ranting, just why is it that 20 tooth inners never caught on? They make sense especially in the world of the 29er and can make the vital difference between riding and walking on long steep climbs. Perhaps now is the time for a comeback? 😀

Cheers

Sanny

2x10 makes a lot of sense for racers, which is what this is aimed at!

I think 26 is a wee bit low, I'd sooner have the 28, particularly paired with the 11-36 cassette.

2x10 makes perfect sense, you can actual get your lowest gears on a climb under reasonable load, something that doesn't happen when using 3 rings.

as for the gear not being low enough? how low do you want it to be? it isn't that long ago that 24x28 was the normal bottom gear, and to be blunt, most people seemed to cope with it.

If the gears aren't low enough MTFU and get fit and stop blaming the bike for your inability to ride up a climb.

Ive been using 2x9 28,42 with a 11x32 cassette on my race bike this year and i have to say its great. I havent needed a lower gear though the climb at the gorrick enduro was as steep enough any more and i would need a 11x34 to be comfortable so 2x10 will be a good thing.

Nowt wrong with 2 x 9 or infact 2 x 8. I'd take 2 x 7 if it worked more reliably than current setups.

I think there is a trend moving away from weight reduction and fancy technology to simplicity and durability. Look how poular rigid singlespeeds are becoming as winter bikes and how people praise single pivot full suss.

Cranks - 694g

Mrmo, don't talk arse.

While there are still climbs out there that I can't ride up, I will stick with my 22 x 34 lowest thanks.

Sure I could get fitter, but that just means I'll be able to try steeper and sillier climbs with my nice low gear. Also, try touring with a trailer up and over scottish hills and then decry the low gears.

Horses for courses, if you don't need low gears, try riding harder trails! 😉

XX is designed for racing, not touring with a trailer.

XX is designed for racing, not touring with a trailer

Good Point

Really? 🙄

I wasn't trying to imply it was, i was responding to the suggestion that low gears are just a fitness substitute.

13thFloorMonk, Touring is a very very different world to what 99% of riders do. If your shifting loads then it helps. Though i could point out that the first circumnavigation by bike was on an ordinary, one fixed gear...

from my experience 22x34 is actually too low for a lot of climbs too easy to loose traction. Climbs are easier in a slightly bigger gear.

and if you actually look at what is being offered, 26x36 bottom gear... sit down and work out what they translates to...22x30... you loose one maybe two sprockets?

Hows the change up from 29 to 36? I mean is it quick, because that was IMO the big problem with the Duo set up.
Imagine you were racing along a flat section using every gear you had, then you came upon a total switchback and climb. Would it bang up quick or are you going to seriously preempt it?

Dave
I would like to know if the cassette is compatible with standard 9 speed freehubs...

FWIW, I would go for it as a 1x10 setup and be grateful of the 11-36 option.

Also is there a shifter only setup so you dont need the matching brakes?

OK, forget the touring thing, i was just using that as one example of why low gears were good (circumnavigating the globe on a fixed gear, do you honestly believe they climbed every steep off road climb they came to? I like to ride my bike, not push it).

Everyone will have a gear setup that works for them, but low gears are totally valid, however fit or otherwise you are.

well, myself I'm thinking of using the new 11 speed Campag road cassette with the matching rr deraileur, but to overcome the problem of not having a suitable 11 speed indexing shifter, i was thinking of using an old friction shift thumbshifter, should do the trick, i only ever use a single front chainring, so it'll be a 1x11, should have a big enough spread for the trails round essex.

Have campag not come up with a bar mount shifter yet - they're bound to soon with the new Athena groupset

Anyway, you can already do 2x10 - Dura Ace (and possibly other groupsets) do flat bar shifters...

I've just checked on the Campag site, only flat bar shifters up to 10 speed at the moment, and they seem to be incorporated into the brake levers, so it's back to good old Canti's I suppose.

Cassettes will be compatible with existing freehubs.

Oldgit: why wouldn't the shift up to the 36 be smooth? It's not a massive leap from the previous cog, like a mega-range 7 speed cassette. It is aluminium though, so it may be very flexy! IIRC it goes 32-36 at the top of the block.

10 speed works fine off road as shown by various mate's cx bikes coping absolutely fine with some horrendous conditions...

njee20 you sure its an ally 36t on the cassette?

oldgit is talking chainrings, no?

njee20, just that the front mech strained to shift between rings on the Middleburn Duo, though that set up might have had a bigger difference between chainrings.

oldgit might have been but njee20 is talking cassette's

if its front rings oldgits got the numbers wrong its 26-39/ 28-42

If its cassettes I would like to know if it really is ally for the 36t..or Ti, it does look a different shade of, er, metal colour.

Apologies, I thought you meant on the back!

Tinsy, I'm not totally sure, but it looks like it:

[img] http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/download.php?id=30721 [/img]

I've got another shot on my computer from the back, but it's not hosted anywhere, so I can't link to it.

email me the pic and I'll host it.

I'm at work, it's at home!

Yep sure is a different colour, could be Ti?

So the shifter pods can bought on there own then no need for the brake lever etc?

10 speed works fine off road as shown by various mate's cx bikes coping absolutely fine with some horrendous conditions...

In terms of hours of use, even a season of CX races ain't that much though is it?

Tyre-kicking aside, I'd be interested to know how the front mech works on a setup that's designed from the ground up for dual ring use. I run 2x9 (but with no big ring) and the chain always seems to be dragging against the front mech if I shift up or down a few gears.

But the real question is, out of all the staff the mag could have sent to preview the latest top-end race groupset, why the one who rides a singlespeed and sings the praises of cheapness? 😉

I found the pic, clubber: YGM.

It doesn't look like ti, too 'white'. Middle chainrings work perfect well in alu, and considering the cassette weighs less than a 9 speed XTR one I think it's likely.

I'm not talking about cx racing but rather cx riding through the winter.

This is no different to 8 to 9 (or 7 to 8 or 6 to 7 or 5 to 6) - there are always (still...) people who say it'll be a disaster and never work and the reality never actually reflects that.

[url= http://sheldonbrown.com/nanodrive/index.html ]nanodrive[/url]

Here we go (njee's pic)
[img] [/img]

Get a lot more crap at the back, it wouldnt last like an alloy front ring, but I guess thats not its main priority as you say its damn light, think I would realistically be more interested in a lower in the range 10 speed setup that weighs more and lasts a bit longer.

But I fully understand why you would do the bling flagship model first.

But an alloy middle ring gets used 50% of the time (all things equal), whilst an alloy cassette sprocket gets used 10% of the time.

Obviously it doesn't work anything like that, but you know what I mean!

Fair point, something in my head doesnt like the sound of an ally ring in the cassette... Or surely someone would have done super light cassettes on the cheap before? Like the racer only ally discs.

Could just be me though... 😕

26/39 on the front with the 36T rear sprocket gives pretty similiar bottom gearing to 22T on the front and a 32T rear sprocket. 1.45 vs 1.38. I don't see that as a dealbreaker personally. Obviously you also lose a little top gear with that setup, but who cares?

If it's reliable, and once the prices are sane, I'd consider it myself I guess. We do carry around an awful lot of overlapping gears as it stands.

Also, alloy sprockets in the middle gears (eg 16 to 20ish) have a lot fewer teeth than 36 which is a big part in considering wear.

KCNC do cassettes with alu sprockets, various other manufacturers do them too, they don't wear well, but no one's done a 36t sprocket before. They also tend to snap, but where the sprocket joins the carrier, the fact they've done away with the carrier makes me think it's alu.

I guess it'll depend on the surfacinging as well, that can make a huge difference. This isn't pushbikes, but renthal make a hard anodised allymotorbike sprocket which lasts a little more than twice as long as most ally sprockets, and about 2/3 as long as steel if looked after. I assume something similiar could be used for mtbs, if it isn't already.

I would love 36t on my bike, thats why I am interested, OK am convinced on the ally thing, 1x10, yeah sounds right to me, and not an overlapping gear in sight. Where do I sign up?

oh and need to see the shifter pods on their own, if you got a pic of that in your pocket!! 🙂

Cranks are available in either Pressfit 30 or GXP, with a Q factor of 165mm

So the Pressfit/BB30 and GXP options both have a Q-factor of 165 mm? One of the advantages of BB30 is supposed to be reduced Q-factor.

Your right northwind, I think clubber has got that sussed its the ammount of teeth MX sprockets are huge... I am now convinced, ally no trouble.. bring it on..

This is no different to 8 to 9 (or 7 to 8 or 6 to 7 or 5 to 6) - there are always (still...) people who say it'll be a disaster and never work and the reality never actually reflects that.

My commuter with 7-speed gets used every day, never cleaned, left outside in the rain, and I typically get 3 years' use out of a drivetrain before I have to change everything. Plus it's a lot less sensitive to poor set-up and filthy cables than 9 speed gearing. And that's built up with stuff that's below even the level of Deore!

It's not a disaster that there's fancier stuff coming out, but each change gives pretty minimal performance benefits at the expense of reliability and longevity.

bb30 is lighter as bearing go straigh into the frame...ie.no need for bb cups.
The q factor is suspect givern is for the bb30 anyway.

Shimano make a 12-36 cassette I think Madison have them on teh website, only deore level though.

With a White Induistries VBC chainset you could have it all now 9speed....

Yes they've just started doing a 29er specific cassette with the 36 you're right.

I wondered if the chainset weight was for BB30, in which case it's not that impressive.

great, was just about to buy a new cassette... OK then poke your 10 speed... until I can afford it at least!!!

BB30 chainsets seem to be coming out a bit heavier but apparently a lot stiffer...

My S-Works one is 530g (plus bearings admittedly).

Not read all the comments yet but here's a couple of close ups of the cassette

http://www.singletrackworld.com/2009/05/that-sram-xx-cassette-in-close-up/

Front shifting is nothing like Duo, you can change when you want, under pressure up and down no problem. The rings are mathematically designed to have more pick up and release points than standard rings.

Interesting to note that it seems to be using the powerdome type fitting with splines only at the top and bottom - not good for alloy freehubs...

[img] [/img]

http://www.singletrackworld.com/2009/05/sram-xx-forks/

Fork story will be all there when I've popped over to the truck to take pictures.

Doesn't actually seem to be that much of a problem with Red cassettes, I wonder if it's alright because it's 2 wider splines, as opposed to 4 thin ones, distributes the pressure more evenly.

Yeah, could be I suppose - twice as wide halves the load which is quite possibly enough to make all the difference.

Nice option but wonder how much it will cost?

(-fed up of spending more money on bike than a car!)

Someone muttered at £260 for a cassette I think it was. Seems about right, based on Red.

Yeah, but no one serious will be buying that - it'll be for sponsored riders and people with more cash than sense. The rest of us will be waiting for the X9 or X7 versions or using 10 speed Shimano.

SRAM Red OG-1090 cassettes seem to be available from £120 - £145 online.

Cross-compatibility with SRAM road groups will be nice. Could use XX front derailleur plus chainset or rear derailleur plus cassette to put low gears on a road bike.

Standard Q is 156 compared to Noir which is 171 that's with a GXP b/b. The wider Q is to fit different frame designs.

But the real question is, out of all the staff the mag could have sent to preview the latest top-end race groupset, why the one who rides a singlespeed and sings the praises of cheapness?

Surely the obvious choice if you want the non-fanboy opinion 😛

(I do own and ride geared bikes you know)

Images of the XX trigger shifter here;

http://www.singletrackworld.com/2009/05/sram-xx-shifter-close-up/

Is the cable pull of XX compatible with teh road groups then, that could allow all sorts of fun options?

It's only SRAM - not like anyone'll buy the stuff. When Shimano do a 10 speed off road set up, then I guess we'll have to consider the pros and cons.

but the question remains will be mech snap at the sight of a twig, i guess there won't be much change from £250??

more interested in what can be done with the new FSA chainset and shimano mechs.

jeez not even launched and the NIMBY's are out in force.. or seeing Red, looking for a rival....

36T sprocket = aluminium.
Since its seldom used, and made of a nice hard 7075 Al it will last well.

2x10
don;t knock it till you try it. I had 2x9 for many years and been running 2x10 fir a while. brilliant! bring it on.

For Racers only..?
Put the NIMBY mindset away for a while and think about this clearly.
3x9 gives you 13 usable ratios, 2x10 gives you 14... nuff said.

XX uses Road 10speed cable pull ratio therefore it isNOT compatible with X.0, X.9 or X.7
It will work with road Double tap flat bar shifters,...apparently,...so I'm told.

Brakes are strng enough to kill you with a 180mm rotor.

I think I'll stick with my hub gearing.

I'd certainly give it a go when it trickles down to xt level. Perhaps it's the latent roadie in me?

http://www.singletrackworld.com/2009/05/sram-xx-%E2%80%93-the-low-down/

Bit more info here.

Any more questions for me to ask the designers? I'll be chatting to them at lunchtime.....

Any more questions for me to ask the designers?

Ask them if they get hacked off with inane questions or statements like "It will snap off in the first crash" or "That will dig holes in an alloy freehub"?

or if they get hacked off with grumpy bike designers 😛 You miserable git, Brant 😉