I'm a newbie to ebiking. I'm thinking of getting one to get lunchtime laps in my local woods, as the single trail up is steep (~12% average, peaks at 20% grade, gains around 100m of elevation), to the point I've never managed to clean it without dabbing, and even walking up it is a bit of an effort.
I probably want something with ~150mm travel up front, slack angles, good brakes, etc. I don't think I want a 50lb tank, so I'm looking at sl ebikes, like the levo sl.
My question is, up really steep stuff like this (its loose, but not technically challenging, just really steep and goes on) is an sl ebike enough, or should I go full fat?
IME: If it just goes "on and on" spin to win on a low torque motor with a low gear works very well. It's only crunch moves (like a rock step up on an already steep climb) where low torque motors feel like they're "letting you down". Moves you'd probably rarely make successfully on a bike without a motor.
I couldn't tell you the grades, but I've done some pretty nasty climbs on my Orbea Rise LT (more "mid" than SL) that I've never managed on normal bikes. As long as the back tyre maintains traction it seems to get up pretty much anything.
What's your budget? Something like an Amflow is probably the same weight as an SL but the fullest of full fat power wise!
Try and forget about categories, it’s just marketing BS.
Go for as much power and battery as you can at a weight and price you want to pay.
i would say aim for about 21kg weight wise
Yes you can climb steep stuff. Stupidly steep stuff. But you do need some element of power today that. I wouldn’t buy any bike now with less than 85nm
there's no crux moves at all - the worst of it is where the trail switches back on the grind up, but those are smooth (just steeper).
I had spotted the amflows, reading up they seem to hit the headline weight figure with slight cheating (thinner tyres etc), but do ok. I might just be able to stretch to the bottom end one, but interestingly they're all out of stock on the amflow site so I wonder if something new is coming (the atherton seems to have an embargo'd motor on it).
The other reason I prefer the idea of an SL bike is I'm never going to be doing more than a 2 hour/500m height ride - I think I'll be able to leave even an sl bike on turbo the whole time and get through all of it - dragging round a few kilos more battery seems pointless?
There are bikes offering full torque motor, paired with a small/lighter battery. The marketing split between "SL" and "full-fat" sort of obscures their existence... but they're out there, and would be my choice for a 500m height ride with plenty of steeps.
I just remembered that Giant do a full power Trance range with carbon frame ls and 400wh batteries that seem to be heavily reduced at various places.
Not sure what brand you're thinking of, but the Specialized Levo SL2 is discounted everywhere at the moment.
I've ridden one in a car park and felt plenty powerful enough.
The other reason I prefer the idea of an SL bike is I'm never going to be doing more than a 2 hour/500m height ride
But you will. You end up going twice as far in similar time, or going further just because you can. I’m glad I got a 630wh battery not a 420wh. I can see why 600 to 800wh is the sweet spot as it allows you to cover a lot of distance to the point you are knackered. Anything less and I’d still want to be riding further and cursing getting a small battery
Back to the climbing bit. You get more traction leaning on the side lugs. You also have to have the seat pretty low. I learnt that the hard way. Your quite high up when you all backwards off your bike on really steep climbs
As long as the back tyre maintains traction it seems to get up pretty much anything.
That's how I'd describe steep climbs on my SL eMTB. I've not been in a situation where I found the power/torque lacking to help me up steep stuff. Traction has always been the limiting factor. Heckler SL with the Fazua Ride60, so 60Nm and 450W peak power.
I have a Giant Trance E, full power, light weight with a 400w battery and it comes with a 200w range extender. A great trail bike!
open to any brand pretty much, I'd spotted the levo sl2 (particularly the lovely olins one) on offer, and a few others.
That Giant looks good, but I think I'd prefer full 29er - I'm tall (6'2), and the trails round here are relatively untamed with lots of "chunk" - a bigger wheel just rolls slightly better over them and there's no disadvantage when you're my height
open to any brand pretty much, I'd spotted the levo sl2 (particularly the lovely olins one) on offer, and a few others.
What, this one?
It's amazing. Low power though, it doesn't fly up hill like the big fat ones do. It rides like a really nice bicycle though. It feels like a motorised version of my Airdrop Edit.
I'm also 6'2.
I posted a thread on here somewhere when I was thinking about buying it. I'll answer any questions you have when I'm back from the school run.
open to any brand pretty much, I'd spotted the levo sl2 (particularly the lovely olins one) on offer, and a few others.
That Giant looks good, but I think I'd prefer full 29er - I'm tall (6'2), and the trails round here are relatively untamed with lots of "chunk" - a bigger wheel just rolls slightly better over them and there's no disadvantage when you're my height
MTBMonster have got big discounts of the 2025 Rise models in both alloy and carbon. It has a Shimano EP801-RS motor which some people complain is old but I'm more than happy with mine (mine is the Rise LT H10 alloy, 85nm with 630Wh battery). I don't know specific weights but it feels lighter than the alloy Levo SL2 I was looking at in my LBS.
Another option might be Bosch SX equipped bikes like the Cube AMS Hybrid One44 C:68X or various Canyons.
For Amflow-alternative Avinox bikes, check out the Megamo Reason.
open to any brand pretty much,
Doesn't tick your full 29 box but I'm (almost) 6'2 riding a XXL one of these - less posh version though - and the mullet setup works very well. I've linked to a XL as that's the recommended size for this sort of height, I went with XXL cos I'm used to bigger reach.
Mates got an Heckler and it's spent way too much time back in the shop with problems with the motor
The Levo SL can run a pair of 29ers but the mullet is perfect for the kind of riding I bought it for.
I have a full 29er trail bike for bigger, longer rides.
I’ve not long got my first e-bike, a Caanyon Neuron On:Fly which has a 400wh battery and the Bosch SX 60Nm/600watts motor. I live in the steep sided Calder Valley and I honestly can’t say I’ve ever felt it lacked power. I’ve tuned the motor setting and the emtb mode is plenty powerful. When it’s in Turbo, and everything to the max, I’m just not sure why I would need more power, it pulls so strongly.
Now, I get that there is a choice for a much more powerful motor, the CX for example, and you can grind up climbs with less cadence and greater motor support, but I can honestly say I’m not wishing I had a more powerful motor. The only thing I would suggest you think about is battery capacity. Mine will rinse through the battery if it’s kept in Turbo, but that’s not the type of riding I do. But if you do find longer days are being ridden, alleviating and range anxiety with a bigger battery would be reassuring. I’ve got the range extender and, for example, yesterday did 65km with 1175m of climbing and had 15% left of the 650wh battery left.
Had I not got the Canyon, which was a mega deal IMO, then the new trek would have been high on the list, mid support and 580wh battery with RE option. If you are wanting a machine to blast out laps, then that might be not right for you.
My other thought was the Orbea Wild ST with the CX motor and 600 battery. They are cheap albeit a fairly low spec though, and potentially a bit of a lump and needing upgrading from the off, but decent motor and battery package in a good frame for blasting through stuff. The Range Extender would also fit, so for big days you’d have 850wh battery…
Or something like this….
Full power with a small battery. You should be mindful that it really will get through that battery quickly on full power.
I've got a Whyte E-160 rsx, full powered and HEAVY, even by ebike standards and and a mate has a Whyte elyte which is a smaller battery and 55nm instead of the 85nm mine has. I can get up steep climbs he can't but I'm also around 3 stone lighter so thats definitely something to consider. There are some good deals around on the Whyte elyte stag works at the minute which is full power (400wh but comes with a 250w range extender battery for longer rides) but weighs a fair bit less than my e160. They come as 29/27.5 wheels but can be setup as full 29er afaik
Kenevo SL owner here. Very low powered these days at 35nm, but does fine on the steeper stuff. I rarely ride it in anything but Eco / Trail, but flip it to Turbo for the short and steep technical sections, you still need to use the gears though, whilst on full fat the torque alone seems to get the rider up.
It’s a great bike, but when it gets replaced I’ll be looking for more power for a similar weight. I really don’t want to be muscling a 25kg plus bike around, but would like to burn up the hills quicker.
There aew some heavily reduced Heckler SLs around - not sure if there are being discontinued because early motors/firmware really had a lot of issues - latest ones seem okay. I've got one, and very happy with it.
I'm on the 430Wh battery, which is good for around 3,200ft of climbing in trail mode, so two or three hours depending on where I'm riding. I've got an old YT Decoy from 2019 still going strong, which has more power but is very heavy, and I had a Gen 1 Levo SL with 30Nm (I think) which rode really nicely but just not enough shove when you needed it.
I think 60Nm is about right for most people, most of the time. I've ridden Avinox, and it's a really impressive motor, but you definitely don't need that much power (although I accept you don't have to use it, and it's not carrying much of a weight penalty).
In answer to your question, 60Nm is easily enough for steep climbs - on the odd occasion you need it on the Fazua, there's a 10 second boost which is Avignon power (well, ish) for 10 seconds.
I think SLs are the answer to the question most people aren't asking.
Not all SL eBikes are created equal... Let me just get that straight out there...
Of course ANY eBike is going to be of some help vs an unassisted bike on the type of climbs you describe, but motor outputs and battery capacities vary wildly even amongst the "SL" category probably more so than the full fat market now! Anyway...
My question is, up really steep stuff like this (its loose, but not technically challenging, just really steep and goes on) is an sl ebike enough, or should I go full fat?
For this kind of riding, Power output is more important than Torque figures... And this is where I particularly love the Bosch SX motor... Most SX bikes come with a 400Wh battery fitted, which in my experience is good for around 800-1200m of vert depending on the modes you use (use Turbo all the time, and you'll burn the battery much sooner obviously)... The great thing is that being Bosch, they are also compatible with the Powermore 250Wh range extender too, for the occasion that you do need more battery capacity for a longer ride...
Personally, the Spesh SL motor system and battery isn't up to the competition any more, and hasn't been for a while. It's efficient, but lags behind in output by some margin, and you'll struggle to keep up with anyone even on other SL eBikes...
Like @rockhopper70 above, I bought a Canyon Neuron OnFly... I also have a full power, full fat eBike too, but the Neuron OnFly is arguably more fun, and for shorter rides or rides where I know I won't exceed 1000m of vert, I'll take the Canyon as it's more lively and more fun. Incidentally, there are some serious deals left on XL sized bikes (I'm 5ft10 on a large, so at 6ft2 you'd probably be on the XL)...
Had I not got the Canyon...? Well I wanted a Whyte ELyte 150, but they were still a lot of money at the time (discontinued now), but was also looking at the Mondraker Sly too... There's some great deals available on the Sly now too, and it's arguably a little more "Enduro" than most other SL eBikes too... That said, it's arguably as heavy as some full fats now too...
@pothead, when you say you can do climbs he can’t, is that restriction purely down to “power”, as in the motor simply can’t pull him up the hill?
Struggled to word this question to not appear to be argumentative for the sake of it, but I’m genuinely curious if your mate reached the limits of an SX bikes power output? How does it end, he gets off and pushes/walk mode?
I have a levo sl. I'm happy pootling around in eco, with just enough assist to take the edge off a long climb, then when it gets steep I knock it up a mode to give me a boost. I'm happy like that for now, I still put a fair bit of effort in, but have the motor there to help me up the steep stuff and help me get more done in a short time.
The levo sl will get you up whatever you need it to, but the range might be an issue if you blast it all the time. I've done 5hr 30 mile 6000ft rides in one charge, but I'm in eco a lot.
Those canyons are a bit of a steal, I test rode the cf9 a couple of years ago, I'd find it hard to look past that if I was buying today.
An SL will easily do what you mention. I just looked at my weekend ride and there's a 22%, 300ft climb.in there..On a 21.5kg 170/165mm bike with Bosch SX, its straight forward to lap at a good pace on anything above eco.
A lighter built 150mm would make that even easier.
An SL will easily do what you mention. I just looked at my weekend ride and there's a 22%, 300ft climb.in there..On a 21.5kg 170/165mm bike with Bosch SX, its straight forward to lap at a good pace on anything above eco.
A lighter built 150mm would make that even easier.
I had a kenevo sl and it would climb anything I tried in and around the tweed valley (bar one slop fest kicker at yair). At 19kg it was light and powerful enough for anything I wanted
I’ve just bought one of these to replace a Levo sl 2021. 2 rides and loving it. Weighs about 19kg and the motor is virtually silent
thanks folks, it seems like the general consensus is that a modern-ish sl bike is enough (they all seem to be 50 or 60nm these days, excluding the odd "full power bike with a small battery"). There's some serious price discounts from most of the manufacturers these days with the exception of the avinox motor-ed stuff, so I'll look at the options and find something fun 🙂
There aew some heavily reduced Heckler SLs around - not sure if there are being discontinued because early motors/firmware really had a lot of issues - latest ones seem okay. I've got one, and very happy with it.
Yeah, the earlier motors/firmware were the ones that created the reputation that's (unfairly?) carried on into more recent Heckler SLs. Mine's from Dec 2024 and there's another in my loose riding group slightly older - both been issue-free. Don't regret my choice of bike at all given the budget I had at the time.
There's some serious price discounts from most of the manufacturers these days with the exception of the avinox motor-ed stuff, so I'll look at the options and find something fun
Again, using my own experience with the Heckler SL they're expensive at full RRP but there's been 40-60% discounts almost constantly since Nov 2024. Good luck in your search, there's almost too much good choice out there 😀
If you can nearly get up the climb on a none ebike then an sl ebike will make it easy.
@pothead, when you say you can do climbs he can’t, is that restriction purely down to “power”, as in the motor simply can’t pull him up the hill?
Yes, although as I say I'm at least 3 stone lighter than him so that will be a factor as well
How does it end, he gets off and pushes/walk mode?
That's usually what happens but occasionally he just gives up and rides back down if its a long climb, things like the way up to Feed the Pony at the Golfie which is long and gets steeper the further up you go
Mate has a Heckler SL, he’s on his 4th motor in <18 months, the newer motors don’t seem to have done anything for his issues.
I’ve recently gotten a Trek Slash+, 580ah battery, 60nm 350w motor and it’ll climb everything where there’s traction available, first ride was 1700m of climbing in 2.5 hours and still had 30% battery left. I was absolutely gassed after that though! It’s a great bike, though slightly porky with gravity Radials on both ends, plan is to fit a 29” rear in the summer and step down to lighter tyres.
I think the new Fuel is the perfect bike, options for 140 - 170mm travel with different linkages, lighter than the Slash but not far off geo wise, I probably would have bought one of those if I could have afforded it but got a deal on the 9.9 Slash from my local store.
Full length seat post insertion on the Trek’s too, the Levo/Kenevo are pretty limited on insertion.
2025 Rise owner here. The reduced power (but full torque) means you'll get up stuff just a steep as a full fat, only not quite as quickly as I understand it. To be honest I very rarely ride it in boost, even on the steepest stuff Trail is usually enough and too much torque increases chance of loosing grip (the alternative approach is boost all the way and rely on speed and momentum to cover any loss of traction).
Mate who has an Amflow (and had Spec full fat before) has 'detuned it' in the settings because it's too much otherwise (and eats the battery too quickly). I'm pretty sure theres a new DJI motor on the way - I don't think they'd have discounted the current bikes so much if it was just slightly different frame.
Did the Specialized SL thing, it was ok when thats what everyone else was on, but out with the big power bikes it was a real struggle.
SL 1.0 motors were ok for the most part reliability wise, was getting around 1400 miles before the motor gave up (bearings).
1.2 motors were a disaster for me, 400, 700, 0.3 miles. Returned the frameset as it was just a liability if it would work or not.
Currently on a Vala, its brillliant. Vast majority of the time its in Tour at 50nm, gets 5000ft of climbing out of the main battery, can probably eek a bit more out in the summer and on faster tyres (currently double mary's).
Borrowed a Fuel+ at the weekend, setup 170/160. 20kg, 60nm. Its got more of a sportier ride than the Vala, could be down to the shock being a little bit overdamped. Would certainly recommend swinging a leg over one.
I don't know what people do to their motors, but I've in excess of 4000 miles (not mega miles, I know) over two (chipped) ebikes and no major motor issues to speak of and ridden in all conditions. The only thing I do differently to the majority I see riding is keep the cadence up and ride in an appropriate gear for the gradient
I think the OP already has enough feedback that he’s been able to make his decision. But im putting my oar in anyway, because STW.
So, I am lucky enough to have both lightweight and full fat e-bikes (Neat and Crafty). I love very steep, technical climbs. One of my favourite climbs has me red lining my heart rate on the Neat. So on very, very steep, techy climbs, I accept that a full fat bike will get you up stuff that my lightweight bike won’t (unless you have Olympian legs). Having said that, I love climbing on the lightweight e-bike. It’s just that it requires more muscle power from me. But I have such a sense of achievement when I make one of my near-impossible climbs.
But for gravelly, fire road climbs, imo a lightweight e-bike will go up anything. The big difference i find between the two bikes is purely the speed they climb at. One of my favourite rides is laps of some downhill-type trails, which have a nondescript fire road climb. It is the definition of ‘shuttling’ on an e-bike. The full-fat rocks for that setting, because you can cruise up the boring climb for the 5th time at warp speed. But to be clear, the lightweight bike is fine for that too - you just climb more slowly.
The latest Avinox bikes are starting to change the landscape of mid power e-bikes a bit, given you can have a full power bikes with an 800w battery with a reliable spec & just over 20kg.
The true SL bikes are pretty pointless with their limited range & batteries. I couldn’t get any more out of my old Kenevo SL than I could of my self powered legs & to get a decent amount of elevation in it was turned right down to the point of it being pointless.
We have 2 Avinox bikes in the garage now (Druid & Mith) & the only other bike I would really consider is a light build on the new Fuel+ in the 140/150 setting. The HPR60 motor I had on my MTe (before it was nicked!) was really impressive.