Your thoughts and opinions please,
are the shimanos easy to bleed etc??
James
Shimanos IMO are easy to bleed, and require no special bleed kit, I think the Juicys do? Also use mineral oil rather than DOT, which is good. I can't speak for performance, I've only used Juicy 3s as far as I can recall, which weren't very good. Do the 5s have the same horrible tri-align and pad fitment method?
I like my XT a lot but I'm not sure if they're really good cash value. But they do work very well.
anyone know how easy it is to change hose length on the XT's? is it similar to juicy's with olives etc
XT's are far better than Juicy5's in every serpect.
Easier to set up, easier to bleed and much better to use.
For what it's worth MBUK magazine has a disc brake review this month.
Just checked and the XT kit gets 2 stars, Elixir 5's get 3.5
I don't know what the difference is tween the Elixir 5's and Juicy 5's but alas they only give XT's 2 stars, they moan about it being fiddly, and 'bleeding awkward'
XTs every day of the week, even sunday. I have the misfortune of having to deal with a siezed set of Juicy pistons/binding rotors at least once a week in the shop. I've never even had a pair of XTs in for repair, all my mates who run them rave about them.
Simples
XT + Mineral Oil = Win.
Jammy, pretty easy- olive and insert, then tighten down. The brakes come with blocks to make it easier to fit the inserts, which is just as well as it's a complete ****er to do without! (OK, yes, I didn't know what the blocks were for when I got the brakes)
The MBUK review seemed a little odd, since they've given the XTs solid reviews in the past. No idea what's either fiddly or awkward about them, they're just brakes. The fixed hose exit seemed to annoy them though. They didn't seem to have any beef with the performance.
MBUK must be one or more from the following:
a) Mechanically inept
b) Idiots
c) Talking out of their arses
d) Being bunged a load of cash by certain parties.
XTs are a piece of p*ss to bleed, with nothing more than some (harmless) mineral oil, a 7mm spanner, a length of platic tube and an empty bottle...
I love the XT's on my Orange. The Avids on my Trek work great but aren't as reliable - sticking pistons, and pad change is a PITA. If I get really bothered I'm going to change them for XTs.
i've got xt on one bike and avid juicy ultimates on the other. despite the fact the avids look more swish, with their carbon levers, etc., if i'm honest i prefer the xt to actually use. solid, reliable, good. as you'd expect from shimano.
Magazine scores are rubbish IMHO. There is a short review of XT brakes in on of the mags this month. Not a single negative word about them but 2.5 stars out of 5 scored. Another review of the new XT 6 bolt disc rotors ends with the words "shame they are not available in 6 bolt".
I've used Avid Juicy 7s and Shimano XT - XT wins every time. Juicys work OK but XT more progressive and MUCH easier to maintain, including hose length. Get XT - sod MBUK!
iv,e got a set of 5,s and they can be a bit if a pain sometimes.pad change is a piece of p###s but the pistons often stick.also i just can,t for the love of god get any power out of the front.tryed everthing.so i think this thread has finaly convinced me to go forth and buy some xt,s.
Had a few sets of J 5s that came on bikes. Worked fine. Good brakes, awkward pad replacement, noisy when hot.
Currently got Hopetech M4s. They are nice, look good, easy to use etc, but are nothing exceptional performance wise.
Also got SLX levers with XT calipers and they really rock. Easy to replace pads, easy bleed, great feel and power for UK riding.
If I was buying new brakes for UK riding it would be XT or SLX.
I've usd both, and serviced both for myself and for customers. The XT is far, far superior as far as both performance and servicing.
Oh, and the pads are much easier to change on the XT too.
I would never have the Avid over the XT in a month of Sundays.
Big S every time.
A
For what it's worth MBUK magazine has a disc brake review this month.
the key piece of info there being "MBUK magazine" meaning it's worth sweet FA.
shimano are the king of brakes IMO. my slx's are a piece or piss to bleed. cutting the hoses and re-bleeding was no troube at all - and at that point i was a beginner re. brake bleeding.
5mm fish tank tubing and a pair of syringes.
connect tubing to open valve at the caliper and open the system at both ends. pump the lever till oil stops running through.
fill oil from the bottom till there aren't any bubbles coming through. remove excess oil with other syringe.
i'm sure there is an easier way of doing it but it works for me and i'm more than happy.
the modulation with shimano is second to none in my experience. ridden Formula, Hayes and Magura and niether comes close - even with shimano's basic offerings.
end of.
shimano over avid every day of the week. avid are poop poop poop.
Gotta agree with everyone else on this,very happy with my XT775s, almost 2 years of trouble free service. Wouldn't touch an Avid with a bargepole!
Ive had one avid- its now in the bin. ANd about 5 pairs of lx/xt's (all older version except one. Just change the pads, and bleed once a year and your sorted
I have 2 bikes, AVid on one, XT the other. XT faultless. Avid Juicy's on the other. Avids work fine if you are a regular user of the bike and never leave it for a few weeks. If you have a 1-month lay-off the Avids seize and can be murder to get sorted. You can push the pistons back in all you like, in some cases they just keep sticking. Bleeding either brake is not that hard, you need the ridiculously priced kit for the AVid though. Park Tools website is great for Avid bleeding instructions, if you get them follow every step - no short cuts!
Had Juicy 5s and they were a pain in the arse, very high maintenance. When they worked they were great but I was constantly fettling. On and the bleed kit is expensive and faffy. Shimano every time.
Speaking as another shop mechanic....
XT
Who believes magazine reviews?
Another shop mechanic here as well. Get XT!!! Avids, Baaahhhh!
I swapped Juicy 5's for XT over a year ago and haven't looked back, however, their are now more powerful brakes for the same money. I quite fancy trying a set of Formula K24's or One's.
OP that seems definitive get xt.
yer it does doesn't it.
Without a doubt xt's are better than juicy 5's no matter what anyone says. juicy's feel nice when there just a couple of weeks old but give them a bit more time and youll soon realise how bad they are. Wouldnt touch juicy's
Never had an issue with any of the Avid brakes (Codes, Elixirs & Juicy's) I've had. I personally have no problems bleeding them and find it very simple and straight forward. Bought several sets of 'knackered and seized' Juicy's that the sellers have said bike shop mechanics have failed to fixed. An hours work and I've got a fully functioning set of brakes.
I've not used Shimano brakes. What I've read about them is good.
I think it comes down to whether you're a tinker or a leaver.
Merlin are selling the XT brakes in a kit with mineral oil. would this suggest they need pre-bleed/fitting before use? The website does not really state one way or another. I assume a pre-bleed?
They come in kit form so you need to either fit (cut hoses, assemble, add fluid, bleed) them yourself or get your LBS to do them for you.
xt xt xt xt xt xt xt
I've got a set of the new m775 XTs with servowave levers for sale if anyone intersted.
Very little use. Just been bled with proper bleed kit so work perfect. £140 posted.
Not got either, but fitted loads of both types, worked on lots of Avids, never needed to work on XTs, says it all really.(oh, and just because Avids come fully assembled, don't let that fool you into thinking there'll be no bleeding involved, no set ever leaves my workshop without a bleed being performed to get them working properly.)
Both pairs of avids I have had have always required a bleed even from the box. The bleed kit is absolutely essential if you want to get your moneys worth out of a set. The problem i've found is that out of the box the lever reach is too close, thus making the brake feel spongy and the lever getting to close to the grip. I've found once a good bleed is done and the tiny 2mm allen screw is adjusted to compensate this issue all is well. Not the best brakes but I've never had an issue. They've done the job for me well over the years. Having said that, I wont be buying them again. The XT's do look great for the money.
Duckers - MemberI quite fancy trying a set of Formula K24's or One's.
don't bother, they're not as good as Shimano when cold. they can take a shit load of heat but you have to have a decent run inorder to build up enough heat in them to get them to perform well.
stick with Shimano XT or Saint.