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Has anyone noticed just how many middle aged men are so outraged at charges of sexism in the bike that they feel the need to angrily post about it on the STW forum and social media feed?
See above. It's closer, but it's still not the same. It's easy for men to be happy with this stuff when it's far less common and it's not just the tip of the iceberg in a system still full of inbuilt discrimination.
I actually agree with you. I just wanted to make the point that it's not a simple argument. 🙂
I think sooner or later we're just going to have to accept that the all Germans are perverts.
Has anyone noticed just how many middle aged men are so outraged at charges of sexism in the bike that they feel the need to angrily post about it on the STW forum and social media feed?
Well given the number of put downs as handwringers maybe there is a reason women don't bother here in general. Perhaps some of us who think it's wrong should stand up and reject crap like this. I guess the rest of you either think it's a good thing or just want to ignore it.
[i]Has anyone noticed just how many middle aged men are so outraged at charges of sexism in the bike that they feel the need to angrily post about it on the STW forum and social media feed[/i]
has anyone who's posted on here saying they don't think it was a good decision by Specialized been 'outraged'?
It suits those who want to say 'meh' for there to be some huge wave of outrage that they're able to turn around and say 'blown out of all proportion' but so far on here all I';ve seen is people articulating the reasons why it's a bad thing in the face of others sayin 'but what about', not a huge group of middle class, male IT workers baying for blood.
As has been said above if all that women on stw see is bloke's going 'I didn;t see the bike' etc then it rather make the point that it was sexist and that those defending it really don't 'get it' and potentially this place becomes even more male dominated. Which would be a bit sad too.
Well given the number of put downs as handwringers maybe there is a reason women don't bother here in general. Perhaps some of us who think it's wrong should stand up and reject crap like this. I guess the rest of you either think it's a good thing or just want to ignore it.
Sorry, I didn't quite make my position clear on this.
Sexism isn't acceptable, end of. I find myself quite appalled and ashamed at my fellow STWers reaction to charges of sexism - for example the Maxxis tyres debacle - the STW social media feed made for depressing reading.
Fact is, you cannot suddenly redress the balance by posting a picture of a fireman or the cover of Men's Health, it doesn't work that way. A bunch of paunchy, middle aged blokes should not be arguing that objectifying women is in any way acceptable.
From reading this thread, it seems that some attitudes are changing - hurrah! - however, there is still a long way to go.
As has been said above if all that women on stw see is bloke's going 'I didn;t see the bike' etc then it rather make the point that it was sexist and that those defending it really don't 'get it' and potentially this place becomes even more male dominated. Which would be a bit sad too.
Dry yer eyes and grow a pair.
[i]Dry yer eyes and grow a pair. [/i]
Is that the best you can do?
I'd have expected something a bit more well, intelligent.
Dry yer eyes and grow a pair.
Of tits? Redress the balance with some juggling of your man boobs at a bike show?
TBH you can tell a lot in these threads from people's reactions- always lots of people pretending there's "outrage", people are handwringers, "permanently offended", when mostly what there is, is eyerolling and mild disappointment. I reckon, if you have to wilfully misrepresent the other guy's position before you can attack it, you're probably fully aware that your own argument is rotten.
Fact is, you cannot suddenly redress the balance by posting a picture of a fireman or the cover of Men's Health, it doesn't work that way. A bunch of paunchy, middle aged blokes should not be arguing that objectifying women is in any way acceptable.
No but they were probably the wrong examples, they're not men being used to sell stuff to women. Pretty sure the majority of men don't give a fluff about that.
Low fat yogurt on the other hand? Everyone agrees it's a bit silly, you can't eat a muller and expect to be transformed into a godess being fanned by Adnonisses (Adoni?). It's a bit silly. And that's despite the fact that mens body image is clearly a bigger issue than it was 10-20 years ago, there's now as many 'mens health' style mags on the shelves as there were Zoo/FHM in the 90's (and whey protein is now so popular it's on the list of things used to calculate inflation).
As a bloke I'm more offended by Specialized than I am by greek yogurt that Spesh actually think this would make people buy them.
TBH you can tell a lot in these threads from people's reactions- always lots of people pretending there's "outrage", people are handwringers, "permanently offended", when mostly what there is, is eyerolling and mild disappointment. I reckon, if you have to wilfully misrepresent the other guy's position before you can attack it, you're probably fully aware that your own argument is rotten.
Mostly that.
Some women got paid to promote a bike.
Some men by inference weren't (there's sexism, I bet the requisition didn't alow for equal opportunities).
Most men thought it was all a bit crap.
For the most part everyone lost out.
The internet made is possible to turn it into a "my high horse is higher than your soapbox contest".
The internet made is possible to turn it into a "my high horse is higher than your soapbox contest".
Whoo hoo! www.myhighhorseishigherthanyours.com is not yet taken. Get on it 😀
Meh. It's not a product I'm likely to buy, the tits probably sligtly put me off in the same manner "hunks" used for advertising do. But then again, I look at porn, so I'm massively hypocritical for not liking objectification of either gender. I could justify it by saying it's the fact it's for unrelated, mainstream things if I wanted, but I'd probably be making excused.
How would you explain it to a young girl or boy as to why you need tits to sell stuff.
I'd probably say that some people like looking at tits if it was my kids. Nothing to be ashamed of, but then things that are good enough just get bought on their own merit.
As is usual on these threads, it's those throwing around terms like 'professionally offended' who are the only ones appearing outraged. Crap, outdated marketing being called out on being crap and outdated is apparently not ok.
The internet made is possible to turn it into a "my high horse is higher than your soapbox contest".
It's made it possible for people to communicate very easily. You could call it a high horse but that just makes you look foolish.
"It's all very well lots of men declaring themselves not offended by this, but it's also almost completely irrelevant. It has obviously offended a number of female cyclists, which in my view is a bad thing."
I think many of those who'd cry 'oh it's just a bit of fun there's no harm get over yourself' might think want to try to think a bit more carefully about it all. Such 'advertising' objectifies women as men's sexual playthings. There is no link whatsoever, between the 'bunnies' (uurgh!) and the product. Those women are there purely to provoke interest in the stand. It's sexual exploitation of a particularly sad and pathetic manner.
Any Men who don't think there's a problem with using sexual exploitation in this way, might want to think about the facts of rape, sexual abuse and sexual assault of women that happens every single day. And the pressure on young women to conform to a standard of appearance and sexuality. The objectification of women in this way all contributes towards this problem, and the reinforcement in many men's minds that women are objects for sexual gratification, above being people and individuals in their own right.
This is a discussion I'd love to have face-to-face over a pint, but I know that getting involved in this debate on an online forum will only leave me in a grumpy mood.
If I see any of you in the pub after a ride let's pick it up there, eh?
Will this pub have a cardboard display for peanuts, featuring a topless woman; the more peanuts you buy, the more she is revealed?
Why have Eurobike's 'Kelly's girls' never seen an internet backlash? (that I know of)
Many people that would have seen the playboy bunnies at that show, or who are now reporting on the resulting social media reaction, will have seen the Kelly's girls at Eurobike. They're there every year, have been for close to 10 years. I think. Can't say I make a special trip to the stand to see some topless body painting.
PMJ, I think you meant this magazine,
[img] 
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*blue touch paper lit, retiring to a safe distance*
[i]*blue touch paper lit, retiring to a safe distance* [/i]
ah, the blue touch paper of a failed image post. That always riles people.
[edit] damn the edit function!
Why have Eurobike's 'Kelly's girls' never seen an internet backlash? (that I know of)
Classic whataboutery! Maybe it's to do with Specialized being a massive international brand? Just a thought.
Urgh, does this mean I have to return my Spesh emtb when it arrives, for fear of being spat on if I ride it? (More so than just because it's an emtb...)
Just out of interest. Is it (the girls selling the bike) OK if the marketing manager of specialized Germany is a woman? LinkedIn suggests this to be the case... Is it the girls selling being exploited, or the men they are (assumedly) selling at?
Classic whataboutery! Maybe it's to do with Specialized being a massive international brand? Just a thought.
Not whataboutery or a justification of Spesh. Simply a comment. Kelly's are very prominent at Europe's largest bike show and have been doing the same thing for a long time, if we're saying scale has relevance.
OK if the marketing manager of specialized Germany is a woman? LinkedIn suggests this to be the case.
Not really, it's cynical and sad. Taking the exploitation away from that would you buy a bike because somebody posed with you? As many have said if women were in the position of power and their were still not deep-seated sexist problems in society it might not be as bad.
jameso - MemberWhy have Eurobike's 'Kelly's girls' never seen an internet backlash? (that I know of)
Probably because nobody's heard of em.
Sexism makes me so angry!!!
They are basically saying
"If you ride like a girl, buy an e-bike"
Grrrrrrrrr
It's not just sexist, the whole campaign makes literally no sense whatsoever.
"The Turbo S Edition combines Playboy lifestyle, innovative technology and pure joy of cycling."
What does that even mean? How have they integrated a playboy lifestyle into a bike?
As a brand, Playboy has stood for little less than the promotion of women as dumb, subservient objects of gratification.
That's about it.
I really can't see how anyone could think this association has any positives at all.
Dammit! As if my bike skillz weren't poor enough...
I'm now going to have to learn how do to an "Independent, empowered woman hop" and a "Person-ual"
How have they integrated a playboy lifestyle into a bike
It's a load of *ahem*?
Smacks of desperation by both companies.
Funny how everyone gets in a huff about a Specalized booth in Germany that no one on STW saw, and yet ignores the work they have done over the years of promoting products for women and producing products for women. All the while brands like Cove (and to a lesser extent On-One) continue to produce dubiously named products without a fuss.
Which is going to put a woman off more, a marketing girl or a bike frame with G-Spot, or Blowjob written on it?
Who knows?
Does this make it OK?
Here we are again with the imagined binary choices...
Ah if you didn't see it nothing happened....
The point being a company that has done good work has undone a heap of it.
Nice bit of whataboutary too, its OK to slap her on the arse cause the other bloke did it....
We did all this before. Wimmin only carry on doing this (modelling, promoting product through modelling) because men bad.
Knuckledraggers
Handwringgers
Logical Fallacy
Strawman
In
Before
The
Lock
Maybe it's just to distract us from something...
We've combined the new more efficient 32" wheel size, 21 new pre-obselete standards and bikini oil wrestling to create a truly amazing bike. Here's a video.
The fact that Specialized may have a woman in a senior position does not absolve them from making a marketing faux pas. It's not a get out of jail card.
TBH, if this forum is representative of the sport on the whole, then it's dominated by middle class, middle aged men. I guess I keep coming back to the comments that appeared in my Facebook feed as a response to Adele's article about the Maxxis calendar a couple of months back. I found it genuinely shocking, comments like "only ugly women complain about it" and "I'll never buy a copy of STW while Adele continues to contribute".
Seeing a business like Specialized trot out a couple of bunny girls to sell a bicycle made me facepalm. I want to see a more inclusive pass time, that everyone can enjoy, not forgetting that more bums on saddles equals greater lobbying power which ultimately equals better infrastructure for all of us.
bloody polishMonika Zamojska
The marketing genius has been missed by many.
I'm from Newcastle, and those lasses would be horrendously overdressed (in winter) down the Quayside.
Don't get why STW seem to be on this crusade, when the comments here and on Facebook show that very few people give a toss either way.
Don't get ehy STW seem to be on this crusade
Read what we are saying, try to understand, then you might get it.
Is it still sexism / -ist if they have their clothes on?
Pretty girls don't sell products...
[img] 
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*opens a can of Redbull*
You know she actually rides bikes, also probably faster than 99% of people here. Her sponsorship is not to do with looks. If you hadn't noticed they do also sponsor several other people who also happen to ride bikes.
Judging by the look of that hat, she's not the best at knitting though.
Don't get why STW seem to be on this crusade
Because it is easier to lazily re-post something that was on Twitter to get loads of clicks, than it is to make an effort to promote positive images of cycling. It's hilarious that if you now go the STW front page you get a nice image of 2 lovely Playboy ladies without even having to open the story 😆