[Closed] Royal mail have binned my rear shock!

What did you tell the post office was in the package when you sent it?

😯

bloody hell.

I'd be taking legal advice.

surely, any sealed container is an 'air canister'?

Wow! Have you actually checked what their Ts & Cs say?

Was it pressurised when you sent it?

Did you send it pressurised? I suspect they wont take too kindly to that if you did. A quick look suggests that no gases can be posted. I imagine you fell foul of number 3.

Gases
Gases that are compressed, liquefied or dissolved under pressure, permanent gases which cannot be liquefied at ambient temperatures, liquefied gases which become liquid under pressure at ambient temperatures, dissolved gases which are dissolved under pressure in a solvent.
1. All flammable compressed gases are prohibited e.g. blowlamps; butane; lighters and refills containing flammable liquid or gas; ethane; gas cylinders for camping stoves; hydrogen; methane and propane.
2. All toxic compressed gases are prohibited e.g. chlorine; fluorine etc.
3. All non-flammable compressed gases are prohibited e.g. air bags; scuba tanks, carbon dioxide; fire extinguishers; neon and nitrogen.

Nightmare 😯
Even if you get compo. Isn't Royalmail signed for only £50 odd quid max?

Royal Mail have so many things they won't deliver now. Just a joke delivery service. Maybe worth checking eBay to see if Royal Mail have a shop flogging all the stuff they refused to deliver

RM prohibited goods:

http://www.royalmail.com/personal/help-and-support/Tell-me-about-Prohibited-Goods

The nearest I can find are:

- Gases that are compressed"

- All non-flammable compressed gases are prohibited e.g. air bags; scuba tanks, carbon dioxide; fire extinguishers; neon and nitrogen.

Hopefully you had de-pressurised it in which case you wouldn't fall foul of that.

What did they actually state because cannisters aren't banned as such.

I went into the post office yesterday, and noted that the shipping controls are very tight now, and have similar restrictions to what you can carry in your hand luggage on a plane.

I was wondering if this was an insurance knock on effect, after being privatized.

Essential, no liquids, no food, not alcohol , no batteries, no flammable materials.

Good god. Think how many bikes, shocks and forks they deliver! I must have sent/received in excess of 20 'pressurised' suspension items over the years.

Even if you de-pressurise the air chamber, isn't there a pressurised nitrogen chamber in them for the damping?
Seems a bit mental to just chuck it away!

That's a good point - hadn't considered the nitrogen charge...

Just had a pair of dual air forks delivered no problem.

Did you perhaps put on the insurance ticket/value bit a bit too much info about it being a shock absorber or something that would indicate it was a pressurised device?

Looking at clubbers post, I'd be suing their sorry asses.

So if I order a rear shock or bike from CRC who will they use to deliver it?

Here is the "comprehensive guide to all restrictions"

http://www.royalmail.com/personal/help-and-support/Tell-me-about-Restricted-Goods

Nothing in there about gases or otherwise pressurised items, other than balloons, aerosols and lighters anyway.

Given that CRC use exclusively RM, I wonder how many of their shock and lube stuff ends up in the bin?

I'd be suing.

Looking at clubbers post, I'd be suing their sorry asses.

Even though nitrogen is prohibited?

Im not saying its right but thems the rules now. Were you questioned when posting it as to what it was? If they told you yeah no worries then Id be pretty angry.

I had an RP2 sent away and returned recently by Royal Mail Special Delivery. No problem at all.

I removed all air from the chamber, it was clean and well packaged in a sturdy box. Don't think i was asked what it was when I posted it.

Not sure what else I could have done other than hand deliver it! Spoke to Mojo who have never heard of this happening and they use RM for a lot of their shock deliveries.

Have emailed the dangerous goods dept (no phone no) to see if they still have it. Been told not to hold my breath...

😥

Had new air forks delivered by parcel force(are they the same people) from CRC.
Who I believe are a good customer.
Can't see them binning all there shock orders.

That prohibited materials list is so wishy washy, and then they have a catch all at the bottom anyway.

They do have a twitter account - I'm sure there will be a few folks out there willing to give it a retweet - the MTB community and Mojo customers need to know about this.

Was told if the item was in original manufacturers packaging and sealed/un-opened then it goes through fine.

I might be wrong but I don't think float air cans have any nitrogen charge I think it was only used to charge the piggy back on shocks such as van dhx etc
id be contacting them and saying if you told them it was a shock and wrote that on the description then why were you aloud to send it. or that it was depressurised so not at all dangerous

Compressed Nitrogen in there, so no royal mail wont deliver. So who are the shock mending people using.
Batteries cant send the unless they are in an electronic device. Well that is unless they meet what appears to be [url= http://www.royalmail.com/sites/default/files/Lithium-Battery-Guidance-171012_0.pdf ]conditions for packaging[/url].

how can they tell whether it's in original, unopened, packaging unless they open every parcel with a rear shock in it and reseal?

RM really seem to be going for the approach of 'how can we tear apart this business as much as possible' at the moment.

Collect plus, MyHermes etc... must be having a field day.

Sounds like a tip top job if youre in charge of disposal.. "ooh a new shock" disposed...

Was told if the item was in original manufacturers packaging and sealed/un-opened then it goes through fine.

So you can buy a shock from their very good custiomers at CRC, but you better not need to send it back.

What made them open it?
Why are they tampering with packages to start a fight? Seems like the brave new privatised service has greater liability issues/awareness than before.

Pretty sure that float shocks do have a nitrogen charge.

The questions about, CRC, etc, I expect that there are different terms for businesses and maybe conditions about parts being 'new' or unused.

They x-ray was the impression i got

I seem to recall that they x-ray a sample of parcels too.

Same terms (at least as far as pressurised items) for business users it seems. So how are CRC allowed?

http://www.royalmail.com/business/help-and-support/tell-me-about-prohibited-goods

i would be flipping my shit.

i would be flipping my shit.

This.

I'd be working the contradictory advice angle, since one set of advice on their website suggests it's fine while another doesn't. So "If your advice was consistent this wouldn't have happened, but I followed the very clear list on the website which says it's "comprehensive" and there's nothing in there that caused concern", sort of thing.

Saying i'm miffed is an understatement! RM complaints just kept saying that it breached their terms.

I think Mojo and others do a collection service, i'd recommend this from now on. Alternatively if sending a rear shock, remove the air can? looks less shock-like.

I'd get Mojo to write you a quick testimonial on their experience, seems to me like someone has been overzealous. Does Mojo use RM or someone else?

Weird. It must be very random as to what gets through. i have ordered loads of batteries online from eBay and proper 'stores' and not had any issue with them being delivered by Royal Mail.
I sent my battery to Lumicycle, they sent it back to me, I then sent it onto mtbbatteries and he sent me a new battery without issue.

I have sent of rear shocks on several occasions without issue.

Northwind - Member

I'd be working the contradictory advice angle, since one set of advice on their website suggests it's fine while another doesn't. So "If your advice was consistent this wouldn't have happened, but I followed the very clear list on the website which says it's "comprehensive" and there's nothing in there that caused concern", sort of thing.

Not specifically but possibly covered by this:

*We reserve the right to refuse any other item banned by law or that [b]in our opinion may be harmful or dangerous to our customers or employees.[/b] If you send dangerous goods and do not comply with the applicable terms and conditions and legal requirements then we may deal with the goods as we see fit including destroying or disposing of the relevant goods.

Basically, anything we don't like the look of, we can chuck in the bin with no recompense?

My experience of RM complaints is it's like a brick wall.

Good luck, hope you get a result.

Someone at RMe fancied a new shock....

Someone at RMe fancied a new shock....

This.

Welcome to privatization!

I've sent a few shocks through the post and always just said "bicycle parts". I'm guessing they have never checked whats inside so got away with it.

I assume that they must have to fully document anything that is disposed of. In that case I'd be telling them that you'll need to see the documentation. I'd also want proof that this dangerous item had been disposed of safely, again that has to be documented.

What damage could the 250psi (average) of Nitrogen do worse case scenario

I strongly suspect that it's related to the recent privatisation, so previous experience - unless it's very recent - doesn't count for much.

On Monday I was asked what was in a parcel I was posting ("for security reasons") which is the first time I can remember that happening and I always use the same post office and normally the same teller.

Post on twitter and post on the MTB/bike subreddits on Reddit, store up a hornets nest of shit viral publicity for Royal Mail.

I had a battery ( disposed of or destroyed ) a month before the privatization

Thanks for the warning. I'm going to stop using Royal Mail to post things. I'm not prepared to agree to those t&cs!

I had an update (from an unknown source for just now) saying that RM installed an X-Ray scanners about a year ago as they had cases where batteries exploded. Seems that rear shocks have been caught up in this.

Beware.

I'm with that lot above, it needs to be traceable & if they've "disposed" of it there should be paperwork to back it up and a big bin it could be reclaimed from if considered invalid. If not, sh!t flipping should commence.
Shame it wasn't on it's way BACK from Mojo at least that'd be their concern.

What damage could the 250psi (average) of Nitrogen do worse case scenario

It's a big bang that's for sure - a tyre bead stretching off a rim at 60 PSI makes your ears ring I'd imagine 250 would be unpleasant (though infinitesimally unlikely)

I had an update (from an unknown source for just now) saying that RM installed an X-Ray scanners about a year ago as they had cases where batteries exploded. Seems that rear shocks have been caught up in this.

Beware.

So their x-ray machine can sense compressed gas?

Not good at all... be nice to get a statement from Chain Reaction/Wiggle/TFT/Mojo about their shipping policy or who they use...

If its destroyed then shirley, they cant just tip things in a mincer without documenting them..

Royal Mail at work.

Speeder - Member
It's a big bang that's for sure - a tyre bead stretching off a rim at 60 PSI makes your ears ring I'd imagine 250 would be unpleasant (though infinitesimally unlikely)

True enough but there's a lot more volume in a tyre than the tiny amount in the damper

Mojo now offer an Interlink pick up service. This is what I used 2 days ago for my RP23.

Sent my Shock to Loco a few weeks back, was asked at the post office what it was. It seems it got there through luck! and got returned as well!!!

.... Maybe the Post Office could do with being told Royal Mails policies!

retro83 - Member

Not specifically but possibly covered by this:

*We reserve the right to refuse any other item banned by law or that in our opinion may be harmful or dangerous to our customers or employees. If you send dangerous goods and do not comply with the applicable terms and conditions and legal requirements then we may deal with the goods as we see fit including destroying or disposing of the relevant goods.

Basically, anything we don't like the look of, we can chuck in the bin with no recompense?

Contingent on you having sent dangerous goods, though, which a shock isn't. It's an attempt at a universal boilerplate I think but not a very good one- they've made it "we can refuse things we think might possibly be dangerous" but "we can on;y destroy or dispose of it if it actually is dangerous"

Someone at RMe fancied a new shock....

"Royal Mail has been in contact with us today regarding your order- they have found a damaged package addressed to yourself but unfortunately the contents were missing due to being either lost or stolen"

not all shocks are pressurized using nitrogen or air and if you had a dhx for instance you would be able to depressurize the air can and the ifp.
unless you actually tell the postie that it is pressurized or a gas canister of some sort how would they know.
i send loads of shocks.
what does the package contain?
cycle components....

I'd be demanding compensation or the shock back and threatening some sort (not sure which) of legal action if they continue to be unhelpful, though probably after doing easier things like pestering the higher up bosses and kicking up a fuss on facebook/twitter etc.

Unreasonable contacts aren't enforceable and I (in my uninformed opinion) would hope that some thing like "any goods we think might be dangerous" would fall under unreasonable. Best of luck getting it sorted.

so what your basically saying is...

the postman isnt getting a tip this christmas !! 🙂

If you were asked what it was and told them, surely theyve accepted responsibility?

They questioned a set of brakes I sent in the post this week, seemed to have clamped down a lot of items that contain pressurised gases, nowt to do with privitisation. There have been lots of mail centres getting evacuated recently due to items leaking which must cost them thousands.

Rich

For customer returns CRC use Collect+

Reply from RM dangerous goods team

Good Afternoon,

Thank you for your below e-mail, I have looked into the product further and it is a prohibited item and cannot be sent through Royal Mail. Under the Royal Mail Dangerous Goods Policy the product would be classified as the following:

Gases - (including flammable, non-flammable, toxic and compressed gases, new and used gas cylinders, butane, ethane, propane, refills for lighters, fire extinguishers and scuba tanks; also see Aerosols and Lighters)

UK destinations: No
International destinations: No

Because the product is charged by filling with compressed air and whether it is full or not it is deemed a prohibited item under the above guidelines.

Royal Mail takes the safety and wellbeing of our customers, employees and the general public seriously and we have controls and terms and conditions in place to stop items entering our network which, amongst other things, are dangerous, harmful or prohibited. These controls include the x-ray screening of mail (for both UK and international destinations) and the opening of parcels that appear to contain such items.

In accordance with applicable Royal Mail terms and conditions, we may deal with prohibited items as we see fit, including but not limited to, disposing of the parcels concerned. Under these circumstances you are not entitled to any compensation for the contents which have been disposed of.

More information on the types of items which are prohibited in the post for legal or safety reasons can be found at www.royalmail.com/prohibitedgoods and in “Our services” or “Prohibited and restricted items – A guide to what you can and cannot send in the mail”, both of which are available from Post Office branches.

Royal Mail general terms & conditions section 4.9 “Restricted and Prohibited Material” subsections 4.9.1 & 4.9.6 state:

4.9.1 You must make sure that you comply with any prohibitions, restrictions or specific requirements in the United Kingdom or the destination country for international deliveries. Restrictions vary from country to country, and can sometimes apply to items which you may think are ordinary. You are responsible for checking whether an item is prohibited or restricted.

4.9.6 If you post an item containing any prohibited material or restricted material (and do not comply with the relevant restrictions or requirements) we may deal with such item in our sole and absolute discretion (without incurring any liability whatsoever to you or your intended recipient) including destroying or otherwise disposing of such item in whole or in part, or returning the relevant item to you. We are entitled to charge you:
• the cost of disposal and/or destruction;
• the standard postage price; and/or
• all other costs reasonably incurred by us.

If posting the parcel at the Post Office you should be questioned by the Post office staff and they advise if an item is prohibited or restricted and any concerns with regards to this should be addressed directly to the Post Office Customer Service team. They can be contacted by writing to Post Office® Customer Care, FREEPOST, PO Box 740, Barnsley, S73 0ZJ or via email http://www.postoffice.co.uk/contact-us-complaint. Post Office Ltd accepts postal items and payment on behalf of Royal Mail but became independent of Royal Mail on 1 April 2012 and is a separate business.

I understand this is not the outcome that you were looking for but I hope that my explanation has been helpful in setting out why a compensation payment is not being made. However if you are unhappy with my response you can have your case reviewed by the Postal Review Panel. The Panel will take a new look at your complaint and will provide you with a final response on behalf of Royal Mail. They can be contacted by writing to: FREEPOST Postal Review Panel or by email: postalreview@royalmail.com. If you do wish to contact this team, please include your Royal Mail reference number which is at the top of this letter. Please be aware they will re-look into your complaint regarding Royal Mail, not the Post Office who you will need to contact separately.

Yours sincerely

Dangerous Goods Team

If posting the parcel at the Post Office you should be questioned by the Post office staff and they advise if an item is prohibited or restricted

This bit seems important. Were you asked when you posted it?

i would escalate this as high up as possible.

try the chief executive...her details are as follows:
Ms Moya Greene Chief Executive

Email moya.greene@royalmail.com
Telephone 020 7250 2888

or maybe their Chief Customer Officer Mike Newnham...i presume his e-mail address would be similar to the one above...

Not sure... don't think so. Can I prove I wasn't asked?

If I was to answer that question, i'd have said something like a "bicycle part".

Thanks Gonzy, might try that.

Doesn't everyone just say that the package is lego, a vase, or books then?

So gasses are banned? What about air in the envelope/box? Seems absurd to just bin it. That's RM for you. "We'll do what we damn well please, we won't be reasonable, and we won't listen, because we're the Royal Mail and we are better than you". Theiving shysters.

I think that means that I'll never post any parcel with Royal Mail, just in case they think it's dangerous and chuck it in the bin.

I'm really struggling to see how it's OK for them to destroy things that aren't theirs if they don't like the look of them, with no possible compensation or chance to appeal...there should really be a time period where such items are held to allow recovery by the owner or recipient.

I'd also be contacting watchdog.

If they're willing to accept the item and payment then they should at least make explicitly clear what is or isn't allowed.

I guess that would lead us down the route of having all our packages inspected before payment or packed by the post office, which then leads us to questions of privacy.

I'd still be flipping my shit and sending barrages of emails, post and as much social media attention I could muster.

If they are entitled to charge you for disposal of said dangerous goods then I'd offer to do that for them. I'm assuming they know where it is of course and they should - it's dangerous! Dangerous stuff can't just be lobbed in the bin, there needs to be a manifest and a paper trail to demonstrate their duty of care. Someone at RM must know where this shock is.

Tweeting your outrage is a good course of action in these instances, I hit a brick wall with EDF energy then went all ****ter on them it got answered, it's all very public

hash tag as many people as you can... mojo / rock shox / fox etc

Not sure... don't think so. Can I prove I wasn't asked?

Works both ways doesn't it - its perfectly possible that you were asked at the post office and replied "bicycle shock" and the postmistress said it was OK!

This is unbelievable! I posted a faulty Garmin using Royal Mail Insured this morning. At no point was I asked what was in the package and the only question I was asked was do I want it insured. I was not given or made aware of their Terms and Conditions at the point of the transaction either.

Pretty shoddy stuff, I'd go down the route of you not being asked what was in there and not being made aware of their T&Cs.