[Closed] Roady etiquette question

With you all the way OP, both in terms of bafflement in regard to this species and perhaps tellingly, in limited time on the road to date. Three encounters yesterday on the roads by Petersfield:

1. Roadie with puncture. I stopped, offered help. He declined and I wondered whether I'd accidentally caught him jerking off there was so much awkwardness and so little eye contact from his side. No worries, ride on

2. Said a very high pitched 'hi!' To two oncoming roadies on account of giant hill just climbed, lungs about to explode. They said nothing at first then yelped back the same ridiculous noise I'd made once they were past. Ok, always brave in a crowd guys, go you

Nothing memorable so far, until:

3. Approached a group of a dozen or so going same way. Didn't want to pass so I hung on at the back. The guy right at the very back was chatty but clearly struggling. It soon became apparent he had some kind of learning difficulty. I feel bad if I was the catalyst for it but two minutes later the others had upped and ditched him. The guy had no clue where he was, where the others were and this lead to him having some kind of breakdown / panic attack. After 20 mins or so we managed to track them down and reunite. Still, heartless bunch of see you next Tuesdays. I felt bad for the kid

Not saying everyone is nasty but the jury is still out. Very different world to mtb for sure

1) you shouldn't have stopped, you basically just chopped off his manhood. No, you slow just a bit and say 'ukay' he'll say yes and you move on.

2) That is a bit funny though 🙂

3) This one's just weird, doesn't sound like it was roadies, probably people just out riding road bikes.

Edit 2a) Don't say 'Hi' in fact don't say anything, nod and possibly make a little 'Mmmbhhh' noise, but not Hi and not in a high pitched voice.

I think some of you guys expect far too much, the op obviously has never ridden with anybody but himself - and if I'd sauntered up to him, sat in for a bit then had to put up with crazy dickhole arms out sprinting when I went to take a turn on the front he'd have been on the verge.

Perception. Never in memory has a road bike rider not acknowledged my hellos. Even on my MTB. MTBers rarely do.
I'm completely with Oldgit, maybe because I am one as well. We grew up in a club scene where we were told the score. It didn't happen at the start of MTBing and it still isn't the norm. Off course there are exceptions. The birth of the MAMIL hasn't helped, many of them just going from novice to sportive with no tradition.
M/c trail riding was partly killed by this. Many of us went out with our older and experienced mates and we found out how to behave. Come the breed of rider who swapped their Fireblade for a KTM all this went by he board and the complaints and restrictions grew.
Anyway the OP has learnt that maybe the rider behind him was just being slightly uncommunicative. to then drop him was breaking the rules, unwritten tough they me.

I reckon its odd for someone to wheelsuck without saying hello and asking for a lift. I just tend to stop pedalling and let them be on their way or have a chat.

I'm completely with Oldgit, maybe because I am one as well. We grew up in a club scene where we were told the score. It didn't happen at the start of MTBing and it still isn't the norm. Off course there are exceptions. The birth of the MAMIL hasn't helped, many of them just going from novice to sportive with no tradition.

This.

I was [i]invited[/i] to ride with the local club, having proved my ability on a few chance meetings, then schooled by the old guys in riding, with all the etiquette, tips and pitfalls pointed out in a short sweary way. Getting dropped 50 odd miles from home on a 120 mile ride concentrates the mind and encourages one to listen and absorb the information on offer.

Nowadays there would be some kind of bullying and harassment charge...

I feel for the op.

Probably misread the situation through lack of familiarity with some unwritten rules and then gets a hard time from some on here.

Not sure I would have done what he did but then I am lardy and slow in road terms and that might have more to do with it.

A simple human error and ultimately harmless. I wonder if the other rider would have got a flaming if he had been the one to tear up the road on the overtake? Not beyond the realms of possibility.

I reckon its odd for someone to wheelsuck without saying hello and asking for a lif

Still think he should have acknowledged me and explained what he was planning to do.

As Oldgit says, the only route into road racing (and looking like a proper roadie) used to be through the clubs, with a solid grounding of the 'rules'.

There's now a high proportion of 'roadies' who have missed this step. Its only good manners to communicate with someone if you want a draft (even if just to say 'mind if I sit in for a minute'. A mile is too much without comment or taking a turn.

I'd have done what the OP did - but just turn up the pace rather then outright sprint. That'll learn 'em 😉

(30 years a roadie)

TBH I have never been through a club etiquette training/bullying session, I have mates I ride with who are in clubs thats about it. Even I know enough to not do what the OP did though, I've ridden several miles in barely communicative cooperation with strangers do my turn, pointing out pot holes and signaling when I need to come off, generally speaking you get a nod and/or "cheers" when you part ways and you've acquitted yourself well...

If someone goes to make a pass you let them, same as you would in a car, settle in behind and then see if they are going to drop you or if you can hold their wheel for a bit. Only an arse speeds up, what were you hoping to achieve? You're not actually in a race.

Roadies are so uptight.

I was in he same situation as the fella behind not so long ago. I realise it's often a bit of an unspoken thing but I thought the easiest thing all round was to sit on his wheel for about 1km, fella in front didn't do the elbow twitch so I pulled up alongside and asked if he wanted me to take a turn on the front for a bit. He said yep and we swapped turns on the front for the next 15-18km. Really nice and quick way to finish off what up to that point had been a fairly arduous solo ride.

This bit gets me :-

"tell you how to dress"

Are new road cyclists some breed apart that need help to put their jerseys on the right way round or something?

All this is why I'd never join a club or ride with a large group - i just want to ride my bike. My road rides are solo or with a friend and that's how i like it.

Probably misread the situation through lack of familiarity with some unwritten rules and then gets a hard time from some on here.

As somebody who only ever rides mountain bikes if I was in that situation I'd have probably thought the same thing that he was a bit of a weirdo for sitting behind me without speaking and most likely stopped just to get rid of him!

Some of those unwritten rules of riding on the road probably just seem a bit strange to a lot of people. Does tucking in behind somebody really make that much difference?

Is this not "rule number 19 applies"

Yes! (to MB)

I've been riding muntain bikes and bmx all my life. I've just started to get into road riding (just did my first audax with some friends!) and truthfully this is the only stuff that puts me off. There's a lot of elitist bullshit isn't there?

I smile and nod and don't race folk (I'm really not competitive), and I think that's enough. Common sense everyday good manners. I won't be told that I should learn etiquette from some arcane club. It's only bikes eh.

My thoughts exactly. If i wanted to learn to ride in a chaingang or race then i could see the point, but i don't. I want to enjoy riding my bike and that's it.

"tell you how to dress"

What's wrong with that? If you were in a club it was considered (back then) the done thing to have clean and tidy attire you did your best to paint your club in a good colour. The things they told you were things like, white socks only, keep your shoes clean, jerseys done up when racing (at least at the start) That was early 70's pretty well follow that to this day, except the socks are yellow to match race day shoes.

Are new road cyclists some breed apart that need help to put their jerseys on the right way round or something?

My thoughts exactly. If i wanted to learn to ride in a chaingang or race then i could see the point, but i don't. I want to enjoy riding my bike and that's it.

To a point I agree with you, but if your going to do group rides, sportives, audax etc. It helps to know how to ride in a group. Looking at how badly some event groups work it is clear that plenty of riders could do with educating, something clubs do.

Always worth remembering when another rider tucks in behind you go faster as well for no extra effort...aerodynamics see...dunno if that's true on a conveyor belt though.

To a point I agree with you, but if your going to do group rides, sportives, audax etc. It helps to know how to ride in a group. Looking at how badly some event groups work it is clear that plenty of riders could do with educating, something clubs do.

You'd think so. IMO most club rides these days are a bit shambolic. Most riders just want a leisurely pootle to a coffee shop. Well worth finding a club that does a race training group ride.

Always worth remembering when another rider tucks in behind you go faster as well for no extra effort...aerodynamics see...dunno if that's true on a conveyor belt though.

Roughly use a third less power based on my powertap. But again, if it's a solo training ride who cares if someone wants to sit on your wheel, you don't really want to make your ride any easier.

To the OP: there is no shame in not knowing the etiquette the first time. As oldgit said, most road riders used to belong to a club. The vast majority of MAMILS seem to not realize is that Sportive riding and reading Cycling Plus is not a training in how to ride in a group.

As for clubs, they aren't all stuffy and old-fashioned. There are rules about how to ride in a group, how to be self-sufficient etc. But any club that doesn't cater for beginners is already on a downward spiral. The idea of dropping beginners out on a ride is inexcusable. Out in the fast race-pace chaingang - I'm dropped every Tuesday 😆 . Find another club.

You hear so much talk of 'rules' about road riding in groups as if rules are automatically a bad thing. You ride in a certain way to be safe and respectful of the rest of the group and you do that in the same way regardless of whether the group has 2 or 200 members. MTBing has rules too - you ride in certain places, you only go one way round a trail centre track - same idea, same reasons, surely?

same idea, same reasons, surely?

not really. mountain biking is an individual sport and road riding is not entirely, but to a greater extent, a team/ group sport.

I'm not taking part in a sport though, I'm just riding my bike(s)

not really. mountain biking is an individual sport

Fair point, but only when you're doing it completely on your own. When you do it with others there are often rules, unwritten or otherwise.

Most rules IMO in road cycling exist for safety. It's a very safe sport if people stick to the rules, but can be scary otherwise.

road club cycling has many similarities with S&M - similar clothes, restrictive rules and coded language.

good example of a comparable mtb "rule" - don't stop in the middle of a trail

Back when mtbing was less popular, IME, far fewer people parked themselves in the middle of a trail. Now we have more people coming into the sport as more of a leisure activity (eg just do it from time to time), I find things like that are less well known.

And just to be clear, I think that more riders in the sport is a great thing, it just does mean scenarios like the above being more common. Small price to pay IMO.

brakes - Member

road club cycling has many similarities with S&M - similar clothes, restrictive rules and coded language.

(imho) the S&M lot are usually much more friendly...

And back to the roadie thing, I've experienced several of the 'bad roadie' types, most of whom seem to particularly dislike people new to the sport who don't 'respect' them somehow just because they've been riding for a while. The good news is that a lot of road clubs that had a high proportion of these people have died out. IME though, decent road clubs have very few if any people like that and if they do, they get the piss ripped out of them.

Though if you want to see that they do indeed still exist, just go on facebook and have a look at the 'pro kit ****ers' group. I can only hope it's ironic in that it seems to be a bunch of ****ers complaining about people who are maybe just a little ignorant about 'the rules'.

EDIT - the censored bit suggests that they like to make themselves happy.

good example of a comparable mtb "rule" - don't stop in the middle of a trail

I'd say this is more common sense and courteous behaviour, rather than a rule.

So's a lot of the road stuff at least in basis.

Yes I'd agree. Some of the road stuff is probably not as obvious and tends to need practice though.

If I seem defensive of roadies/roadmen it's because I am one. It's not elitist, weird or strange at all, it's a choice I and many others have taken. We're not rude or unfriendly, quite the opposite.
Club culture and this whole etiquette thing goes back years, though it wasn't recognised as etiquette as there really wasn't much else about cycling wise. Think about were your cycling would be without the net and media we have now. Cyclist then greeted each other much in the same way Landrover drivers do today, and that isn't seen as rude or elitist. You don't find forums full of upset landcruiser owners. All it is is a harmless sense of belonging.
As for being unfriendly, that's so far from the truth. I was looked after, given free kit when I was a kid because they knew I was from a poor single parent family. I was given an unbelievable amount of help, and I know pass that kindness on.
The thing is now we have blurred lines. We have the cheery long established well rounded clubs open to all and sundry. Then we have the real deal sports clubs, where the riding is serious and their ranks are full of 1st cat elite racers. These guys have real agendas often voting in new members. These fellas have National titles in mind. Then we have the micro clubs, which are basically groups of mates that have formed a club and like to ride in team kit, they might race, but are often renowned for never actually helping or organising anything. And finally there are people just out in cycle clothing on road bikes.
It might sound odd, but I can tell at a glance which group a rider falls into. I could generalize further about these groups, but I'd probably be flamed.
It all gets a bit confusing, but basically this whole 'etiquette' thing is all over the place now.
The riding on a strangers wheel? well if you're out on your own you shouldn't really do it, either pass, stay back or pull alongside and chat, though I did say I can tell the sort of guy I'm pulling alongside of. That might lead to a bit of team work?
Also see it as being short changed, if you're out for a ride why make it a % easier by wheel sucking.
Anyway teas ready.

Maybe i'm wrong, but that last defined group [i]people just out in cycle clothing on road bikes[/i] really does sound like a sneer. 🙁
I'm more than happy to fall into that group, i ride a nice little carbon bike, i own the appropriate clothing and & i enjoy riding.

If i'm being sneered at by a [i]roadman[/i] for simply enjoying being out on my bike then i say that says more about him than me.

[url= http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/ ]This[/url] might help

P.S. I break 68.4%* of these rules every time I'm out on my road bike.

*quite possibly a completely made up statistic

@muddydwarf, don't think anyone is sneering, just an observation about how much time you spend riding in groups and what sort of group.

How well you can hold a wheel that sort of thing, you only really learn how to ride in a group by riding in a group.

But the wording wasn't 'cyclist' was it? It was 'someone in cycle clothing on a road bike'. The quite clear inference is that if you fall into that group you are not a proper cyclist.
As i said before, i've no desire to learn to hold a wheel, ride in a group or chaingang, i simply ride my bike. I like riding solo & i've done several 100+ mile rides without having to 'sit in' on anyone to get me round.

.. but none of the other categories said 'cyclist' either. I think you are being a bit paranoid (speaking as someone who almost entirely just rides his road bike wearing cycling clothes)

Muddydwarf reading what Oldgit has said, i do think you are reading to much into it, the first bit is back int he day when there only were "cyclists", the second bit is now, and if you look no mention of cyclists of any form.

I read it as

Club riders,
Privateer Racers
Organised mates
and Singletons/Randoms

Nothing wrong with any of them IMO, Some days it is nice to bimble on your own and watch the world go by, other days watch the person in front of you crash and cause you to crash and loose loads of skin off your face 👿 on the way to the cafe!

Possibly, but i still see it as a sneer TBH. I've experienced the complete blanking by a small group of riders after i'd said "good morning" to them - they did however speak to my mate who was riding a little way in front of me. I could only conclude that because i was on my winter bike/flat-barred hybrid & he was on his old steel drop-barred winter road bike. The fact that we were 70 miles into a 100 mile was immaterial but it still irked me.
If those are the attiudes of so called roadmen they can stuff it.

If those are the attiudes of so called roadmen they can stuff it.

And were they club riders or were they organised mates etc?

. I could only conclude that because i was on my flat-barred hybrid

I'm surprised they didn't kick you into a hedge 🙂

...but the important thing is that it hasn't left you bitter 😉