Out of curiosity, I tried a PNW Range handlebar with a 10 degree backsweep, coming from a Spank Vibrocore with 8 degree backsweep. The PNW only comes in 30mm rise and the Spank was 20mm, so I removed 10mm of spacers from under the stem to compensate. Both bars were aligned so the upsweep was vertical.
Immediately it felt longer to sit on. I wasn't sure whether to expect this; on one hand removing the spacers would restore some reach/ETT (calculated to be 4mm), but I was half expecting that to be cancelled out by the increased backsweep. The saddle to grip distance was measured 5mm longer, confirming what I felt.
Riding down rough trails, it was a huge comfort improvement. No pain at all on the outside of my hand and up my outer wrist. I'll put this down to the backsweep better suiting my body structure.
However on climbs I found it more difficult to keep the front end down. I had done a short test loop with the previous bar a few times and a few times with the new one, and it was definitely different. Which I can't explain. With a longer ETT, I was half expecting that I'd have my body weight a bit more forward, and possibly shifting forward on the saddle if it was too long for me.
The only thing I can guess is that the lesser backsweep of the previous bar was encouraging me into a more elbows-out position when climbing, bringing my weight forward.
Anyone able to make any sense of this?
I’m very far from an expert, but I’ll have a crack at the longer reach thingy. As I see it, the steering tube is on an angle that leans in towards the rider. Slacker the fork angle, the more this will be the case. So every spacer means that the bar is starting closer to the rider by a set number of mm. So by removing spacers, the bar is actually farther away from you than it would be with more spacers. In other words it’s not just a factor of rise and sweep, the fact the bar is fastened to the steerer tube lower down will mean that it’s further away. Seems to make sense anyway
Are both bars the same length?
I learned a lot from seth on this video about steering and tracking etc and now I want a vertical stem but I'll wait until the price comes down or Ali express start making them.
I was hoping planet x would do one of their clones but that was before they went pop.
Sorry I can't be more help but I'm no expert, I just swop parts until it feels right and then forget about it.
The only thing I can guess is that the lesser backsweep of the previous bar was encouraging me into a more elbows-out position when climbing, bringing my weight forward.
that would be my guess. I like bars with a lot of backsweep for comfort but there is no doubt they make it harder to get your elbows out
I'm not convinced elbows out helps when climbing, you want elbows down. Try swapping your thumbs over when climbing, instead of fingers over the top of the bar and thumb under put them all above the grip, as it you were doing a pull up. Then your elbows come in and down and you can pull hard on the bars down towards your waistline instead of towards your chest.
Give it a try, makes quite a difference to me.
Oh, and
I was hoping planet x would do one of their clones but that was before they went pop.
Not gone pop, bought out by new investor and an ongoing concern. Read the thread for an update.
I’m very far from an expert, but I’ll have a crack at the longer reach thingy.
Yes, I already get this. The bar being further away isn't the unexpected thing.
Are both bars the same length?
Yes.
Give it a try, makes quite a difference to me.
Sounds odd but always open to try.
I also found it easier to climb when I started dropping my elbows to bring myself forward/down over the front, seems to help leverage/weight distribution compared to bending them outwards.
Worth a try to see if it helps!
If the bar has more sweep and you have the sweep pointing upwards then the ends of the bars will be slightly higher on the bar with more sweep - that will be enough of a tweak to make a difference when climbing. More elbow down action should help counter that though, but it is a new technique you need to practice until it is locked in.
Thumbs up technique helps me too. Not appropriate or useful in all situations (speed, incline, surface looseness, amount of effort) but when it does help, you can really feel it. I’m afraid I don’t have enough understanding of the mechanics to put stats to when and where to use it, but have an experiment.
also, I’m aware that this hasn’t answered the original question.
If the bar has more sweep and you have the sweep pointing upwards then the ends of the bars will be slightly higher on the bar with more sweep – that will be enough of a tweak to make a difference when climbing.
They're both 5deg upsweep.
Handlebar geometry is weird and inconsistently measured though. Laying a couple of bars (with the same upsweep) on the table with the upsweep vertical, the differences in the height of the end of the bars off the table didn't match the rise differences. One 20mm bar is 5mm higher than the other, and only 2mm lower than a 25mm bar.