[Closed] Riding without crashing

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In particular - [i]Stop judging rides by how technical they are and try to enjoy just being out.[/i]

You've got to commit yourself - if there is any doubt and you hesitate then you just increase your chance of having an off. Also get your weight back as far as you can go on the tricky steep stuff. I find a dropper post is great for this and I get my weight as far back as I possibly can when stuff gets steep and bumpy - the saddle is literally pressed into my gut sometimes. Also learn to pop quick manuals. I can't manual for a long period - maybe 5 seconds or so, but that is more than enough if you come up against an unexpected step or small drop to just pop your front wheel up and roll off the step on your back wheel so you land flatter. That's the theory anyway, but has worked for me so far!

All sounds very simple when you say it like this, the reality is different I know!

Oh, and build up speed slowly - When you see pro's and good people at it they've ususally sessioned runs many times and know them like the back of their hands. They make it look easy because they've practiced (obviously it helps that they are great riders too).

strava will end up killing you. end of

destroy it.

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In particular - Stop judging rides by how technical they are and try to enjoy just being out.

Completely agree with teasel on this.

Also on the different challenge front, I get just as much satisfaction from getting to the top of a climb as I doing descending it.

Glad you're back up and going!

Definitely enjoy the scenery more - long summer evenings now so lots of potential to forget the gnar and head out into the bigger hills and stunning scenery. Loads of routes out and about that are not too technical but you quickly end up in the middle of great countryside.

Do you have a road bike? A great way to get some strength back without too many of the tumbles that are so common in MTB.

Ride within yourself, don't time runs and take your time. Only do technical sections you are comfortable with.

I think your 3 points are pretty spot on. I am in similar situation after hopitalising crashes in Dec and Feb. I must admit I've done a lot more on road and cx bike that MTB since as definately lost some bottle. I wish I could pop a 5 second manual too :).

I have realised at age 48 that keeping both wheels on the ground is the way forward, so less steep techy stuff for me now and moving forward. More scenery rides etc

Just chill out and enjoy being out on your bike. Work on your fitness instead or pick rides for the view rather than the jumps and drops.

just get out and enjoy riding. mtb is an extreme sport . anyone who thinks hooning down through trees is a safe thing to do is mental 😀

Sometimes I've found it's not what you ride but how you ride - and I think your points pretty much cover it.

Cut out anything that makes you/encourages you to go faster than you're happy with. But this doesn't necessarily mean riding less techy stuff (obviously within limits) but you can concentrate of riding them really well and controlled, just slower than you perhaps would do normally. It lets you explore lines a bit and break down your riding - which often feeds back into better riding when you want to pick up speed again.

Just exploring is great too - especially on your own (with no one to moan about the route and finding a dead end, or riding the same bit twice etc). Time on the bike is what counts, but spending some of it exploring new trails (even just local ones) and new places means more info in the bank for later.

You can definitely think of it as a positive thing rather than just something that's "slowing you down"

I bet you keep on looking at objects you don't want to hit!!?

Anyway, it's good to ride with people that might be technically better than you, you will slowly pick stuff up - you just need to know your limits.

Maybe a session with Jedi will help you stop crashing? Will also get some top tips on how to be chilled.

stupid as this sounds but - learning to crash will help you not injure your self.

tuck and roll with it dont stick limbs out to try and stop your self tumbling etc.

a youth of throwing my self down downhill tracks head first sort of meant this was a necessity.

Thanks for all the supportive comments folks. I must admit, I expected at least one MTFU by now 🙂

Just to pick up on a few points (although I've read and taken them all on board):

[b]euain:[/b] Do you have a road bike?

The funny thing is that, until a couple of years ago, I was 100% a roadie. Rapha kit, Audax, Etape du Tour, I loved them all. But since discovering the trails my desire to ride on the road has dropped right off. Maybe it is time to dust off that road bike though. In ten years of riding the Aberdeenshire roads I only crashed twice and both times was on ice.

[b]jedi:[/b] anyone who thinks hooning down through trees is a safe thing to do is mental

You're not wrong there mate. Mental, but also addictive 🙂 That's the problem I guess. I need to kick the habit for a bit. But only for a bit. I'm clear (in my own mind at least) that my 3 point plan isn't supposed to be a permanent thing. It's just a case of getting through to Christmas without re-breaking the arm. Then I can go back to being an idiot 🙂

[b]smett72:[/b] I get just as much satisfaction from getting to the top of a climb as I doing descending it.

So do I if I'm honest. Perhaps I just need to stop feeling guilty about that.

By the way, I deliberately left skills off my list. It stands to reason that some skills can be used to get you out of trouble. But we are very good at [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_compensation ]risk compensation[/url] and I've not seen any evidence that more skilled riders crash any less often than less skilled ones. If anything you just tend to crash at higher speed as you get better. I think that what is required is a (temporary) change of mindset to allow myself to enjoy riding within my limits, whatever they may be. Of course it may be that, by slowing down and focusing more on how I'm riding rather than how fast I'm going, my skills may improve just as much as if I were permanently pushing my envelope. But that would be a bonus and isn't the purpose of the exercise.

[b]trail_rat:[/b] stupid as this sounds but - learning to crash will help you not injure your self

I think there is a lot of truth in this. However, I think I need to let the fracture get back to full strength before practicing my falls 🙂

[b]onewheelgood:[/b] Maybe a session with Jedi will help you stop crashing?

If I ever find myself down that end of the country with time to spare I'll certainly give Tony a call. It just looks like a fun way to spend a few hours, if nothing else 🙂

Don't be tense on a bike.
Let the bike do the work. Be a bit like a rag doll passenger.
Don't hold on tight to the grips.
Always look ahead on the trail. If you look down at the front wheel you won't see the hazzard until it's too late.
Ride more. The fitter you become the easier it gets.

Also get your weight back as far as you can go on the tricky steep stuff. I find a dropper post is great for this and I get my weight as far back as I possibly can when stuff gets steep and bumpy - the saddle is literally pressed into my gut sometimes

up to a point - for really steep stuff yes but I've recently been finding more control and grip if I have my weight further forward than feels natural. if your front wheel is washing out you probably have your weight too far back.

I think you'd be better served by thinking:

"I am riding with flow and control" rather than

"I am riding without crashing".

Any idea why you are crashing?

1. Please don't listen to how to descend from people on the internet.

2. Please do pay Tony a visit and learn the basics (again).

OK people - read the post at the top, not the thread title. He's not asking for technical riding tips, he's not even suggesting he crashes too much. He's looking for ways to [b]minimise the risk of crashing whilst his broken arm heals[/b].

A roadie would be on the rollers.. but he needs more interesting suggestions than that!

It depends on your own level of riding. Falling off is part of the sport I guess. I usually ride with 20% of my limits most times I ride and that will ultimately involve a few spills. Knowing how to fall helps, but only when you know it's coming. Enjoying it is the main thing, no matter your skill set.

Oh, If I could offer one piece of advice, keep your chin up and look well ahead! It's a really basic thing but it has helped me so much over the last 6 months.

After breaking myself last year, then trying to get back to my normal full speed probably too soon, and crashing really quite a lot, this year i'm doing it differently:

1) Get my skills nailed first. Thanks to Tony and some coaching, I definitely now know what i SHOULD be doing in any given riding situation, even if i can't do it yet.

2) Aim to be CONSISTENT not FAST: Forget about going fast, ride at a consistent pace that allows you time to ensure you are applying your skills in the correct way at the correct time. Until you absolutely can instinctively "do the right thing" every time going fast is bad news

3) Work on your fitness, especially core strength, both on and off the bike if possible. Those showy "Moves" take muscle, and as you get tired, you loose some co-ordination. If you are going fast at that point, it can end in tears

4) Ride. A lot, in as many different places with as many different people as possible! Important this bit. Those Pros you see hucking over cliffs or 60foot booters or whatever, they didn't just start doing that on day 1. Lots of practice is needed, working up a little bit at a time. And by riding new trails to you, you learn to start LOOKING correctly (easy to forget on your local and well known trails), and this encourages a natural, relaxed and neutral position on the bike, ready for what ever the trail might throw at you next 😉

If you do this, suddenly, without realising it, you WILL be going FAST too! Watch the Pro's again, they look smooth and effortless on the bike, because they are instinctively doing the right thing at the right time. When that happens, FAST just becomes fast, and you can then allow you mind to move forwards up the trail, working with is coming next, and not what is happening now.

As of today, i am definitely riding better than i have ever done, and more importantly i know exactly where my limits, weaknesses and skills lie, which is important for staying on the bike and not crashing.

My jumping still sucks, but at least i know that and can try to improve 😉

And i guess, i should add, all that^^ sounds a bit clinical, and although it is worth going into things like this with a clear mind and a clear intention, most of the time i'm just enjoying riding my bike. Having some objectives on a ride doesn't stop you having fun!

I don't believe it is possible to ride without crashing. Crashing less just needs you to knock it back a notch or two.

How often did you crash before you broke your arm? If it was regularly then clearly it makes sense to be looking at changing your riding for the moment.

If not, you could make things worse if you consciously try to change your riding. Just something to think about.

Don't try so hard.

I went through a similar thing and have commented on here once or twice already. I narrowed my problem down to trying to blast through everything and hoping the bike gets me through it, thinking that was what "riding on the edge" meant.

I now focus at riding more composed, being smoother, riding further back from "the edge" and - to be frank - I'm no slower a rider for it. I just turned it all back down from 11 and then slowly turned it back up again.

I think I'm a better rider because of the experience.

Ride for as long as you can concentrate. A lot of crashes happen because of lack of concentration.

Riding without crashing !!!! That'll never catch on no fun 😉

A couple of months ago I stacked it and broke my arm. I've still got a fair bit of physio to look forward to in order to restore the full range of movement, but I've got enough back now for basic trail riding.

Me too! Here's what I'm doing.

First ride last weekend - was flat, non-techy riding, just blooming great to be back out on two wheels quite frankly. Just about to go out for a 'pootle round the block'. Literally a bit of lanes, gentle bridleway, and tracks. So riding, but nothing that involves too much impact or potential for unplanned dismounts cause I can feel the limits pretty quickly. I expect to build up gradually.

Once I've got a bit of strength and stamina back (so turbo for the legs, some yoga, gym etc for core and the other bits, when I'm allowed to lift weights) I'll be off on a skills course. This isn't cause I've forgotten what to do - I've been riding 20 years and have done lots of skills stuff in the past - it's just that I can really see the value in going back to basics while you are building the confidence back up. All the pros 'rehab' themselves back into riding - no reason we should be any different.

Plus what they said ^^^ sometime you really do need to slow down to go faster. Going slow and concentrating on 'form' and actually the raw pleasure of being back out on a bike will be plenty.

Healing vibes 🙂

Awesome thread
Great three points you raised. Suspect in identifying three things yourself you've done the job already 🙂
On the question you asked - I think you have a great opportunity to practice practice for now, knowing you don't want to be going full speed. Just look at the things you think you should be consolidating maybe an do them at 80%, embedding all those skills again. Just a thought re a different goal for a few months.

[b]jonathan:[/b] OK people - read the post at the top

Thanks Jonathan, I appreciate what you are trying to do although I'm sure the advice on skills was given with the best intentions. It seems intuitively obvious that, if you improve your skills, you can use that improvement to reduce your chances of crashing. The problem is that, in practice, most of us don't do that. As we get more skilled we just ride more technical trails (or ride the same trails faster). So, we tend to keep the risk of crashing about the same but the consequences get worse.

So, what I'm really interested in here is how you get yourself into a mindset where you can enjoy riding tamer trails more slowly. Besides my three point plan I suspect that it is also important to put a time limit on the process. That way you can tell yourself that you are not wimping out. It's not a matter of not having the nerve, it is a planned period of rehabilitation, designed to put you in a better position to attack those tougher trails in the end. After all, they are not going anywhere.

A few people asked how often I crash. The truth is, not that often but it depends on which bike I'm riding and brings me to a question that I've been deliberately avoiding, namely, what bike to use for the rehab phase?

When I broke my arm I was riding (or to be more accurate, had just exited) my Five. I built this bike up last September and I think I'm right in saying that this was my first crash on the Five. That was part of the problem. It is so forgiving that I was starting to think that it didn't matter what I did, it would always get me through.

On the other hand, my FF29 is a bit like a thoroughbred racehorse. When you've got it under control it is fantastically fast, but most of the time it just wants to throw you into the bushes. In fact I've recently picked up a secondhand Cotic Solaris frame and am in the process of transferring everything over from the FF29, to see whether the Solaris is a bit less flighty.

In theory I think a hardtail 29er should be the better rehab bike. The bigger wheels don't get tripped up so easily. I tend to ride the hardtail more slowly over technical stuff. The extra feedback should help in developi9ng those core skills that I undoubtedly lack and I don't feel such an idiot bimbling along a forest track or walking a technical section as I do on the Five. However, so far, experience has tended to contradict that theory with the Five resulting in far fewer crashes than the FF29 and I rather suspect that the bike is irrelevant to this discussion. It's more just about getting in the right frame of mind.

At 51 I try and crash as infrequently as possible ! Ride with control and composure (as Chiefguru says), those are actually skills I started to develop after a session with Tony (Jedi). We can all go fast, doing so under control is the key. I would suggest you focus on being in control and build the speed as your confidence and skills improve. Being nervous means you'll crash more. Tony pointed out how my weight (body position) and visual skills changed when out of my comfort zone leading to less control leading to ... a crash ! Look at tree, ride into tree. Been there done that. It's a balance as being confident and composed enough to ride certain features with the right amount of speed helps a lot

Book a session with Tony, he will be perfect for you and where you are.

Forget Strava, if you want to track your ride use Endomondo. I would only use Strava to track a climb, if you want to test yourself downhill enter a race.

i never try to ride fast. i like the trail and me to be together and then it flows. we all make mistakes and none of us are machines. just heal and get out and ride then the smile will return

1) you will always crash at some point.

2) you may or may not hurt yourself.

3) there is not much (other than learning to crash - which is a painful process in itself) you can do about the outcome of crashes.

adrenalin is addictive. you can ride within yourself but every now and again its fun to do something stupid.

As we get more skilled we just ride more technical trails (or ride the same trails faster). So, we tend to keep the risk of crashing about the same but the consequences get worse.

Not sure I agree. Developing riding skills is not just about riding more technical trails or riding faster. The key thing is riding with less reliance on luck and hope to get you through. Any fool can point a £3k bike down a pretty technical trail and hold on until they get to the other side. Skilled riders can do it with utmost confidence they are in total control and can respond to any unexpected events that might cause non-skilled riders to crash.

Case in point is how many "ordinary" riders hoon down the Fort William DH track week in week out. I suspect a lot of them get down more by chance and fancy technology than by skill.

Don't over-think it. Lots of us have been where you are now. Give it time and your mindset will shift and you will once more enjoy the pleasure of just riding. Don't give up. Just ride.

Trust me, your story sounds so, so similar to mine

OP - i found going back to the basics, riding a rigid ss bike on local/fun trails really helped me brush up my bike handling skills. not necessarily trying to go faster, but trying to improve line choice, momentum and ejoying the ride. maybe you ride a rigid ss bike anyway, maybe not. but even doing this definitely helped me on my full susser for bigger/more tech stuff. if you have a hardtail/hack/commuter already this would do. no need to buy anything new

Thanks again folks. I suspect this thread is drawing to a natural conclusion, but I just wanted to point out that it's not a problem with having fun. In fact it's rather the opposite.

ART's post reminds me very much of where I was a few weeks back. For the first few rides it hurt just to hold onto the bars. There was no chance of pumping the bars, shifting my weight back or doing anything more than riding along slowly. But the sheer joy of riding again after a couple of months off meant that was enough. The problem is that now, unless I really try and muscle the bike about, I don't actually feel much pain riding and it is getting harder and harder to resist just going for it. However, I know that if I keep pushing it then at some point in the next month or two I'm going to crash and, if the doctors are to be believed, that will probably result in being back off the bike for another couple of months (not to mention the inconvenience for the rest of the family). It was bad enough not being able to ride in February and March. Not being able to ride in June and July doesn't bear thinking about.

I know that if I keep pushing it then at some point in the next month or two I'm going to crash

Therein lies the problem (and a familiar one at that). You're [i]assuming[/i] that if you keep pushing you're going to crash. With that attitude you probably will crash. Keep it steady until your attitude changes.

Not being able to ride in June and July doesn't bear thinking about

You're in control of your own destiny.

Never skip on tyres, make sure you have the best( for the area you ride)
I tend to use super tacky tyres on the front, may slow me down on the climbs but the extra grip is worth it.

From time to time we all crash.
From my experience if I ride slower my concentration goes and I tend to get more crashes.

Hello again.

I get what you are saying and I meant to add in my earlier post that I am doing all my riding (what there is of it) at the moment on my hardtail. For probably all the wrong reasons I am much more gung ho when riding with 5+ inches of bounce. So the hardtail makes me think more about how I am riding and stops me from over reaching when my body just isn't ready for it. As you say, I'm already skipping past the 'this is great just to be riding' to 'I really wanna pump that and move the bike around more' stage, but my arm complains and so I'm just railing it back in.

It isn't inevitable that you are going to crash. So much of how we ride and whether we ride out the tricky stuff when it all goes Pete Tong is entirely in the mind. I know that at the moment that I'm being more cautious (suddenly those trees gaps look tiny on the bad arm side and I'm flinching) so actually it helps to just be riding a bit more slowly and well within my limits, because it's that little nervous doubt in your mind that is the key contributor (in terms of what you then do physically - e.g grab a handful of brake) to crashing. When I'm more confident in the strength of my arm I'll forget about the vulnerability and be looking straight through the gap rather than imagining the consequences of not making it.

It's totally natural for me to feel like this and I'm really chilled about taking my time, cause like you I don't want to repeat 3 months off the bike. This is the worst injury I've ever had from biking so I consider myself pretty lucky really, but it has been a learning curve and I have constant battles with myself about wanting to be further along (in terms of riding) than I am.

Only you know how physically strong you are feeling, so be guided by that and the enjoyment of riding not some notion that you must be going faster and taking risks cause otherwise it's not really worth it.

Nice to see Tony pop up earlier with encouraging words ... he's the person I want to see later in the year to keep me rolling 🙂