[Closed] Racism in Mountain Biking

Eighteen pages, three bans

We're off to a flying start with first reply.

"All lives matter" by post 9

I can hear two dejected sighs, one from the Lancashire valleys, one from the Northumberland wastelands...

Once more unto the breach, dear mods, you few, you happy few (well, not Drac, obvs), you band of brothers.

I rarely see anyone outside of white blokes our in the trails, is that racist, no, just an observation

Normally of the opinion that most of this is dross, that the main reason is that black people tend to live in cities, and that it's an expensive sport requiring loads of cash and an audi to get to the trails.

Then I read an account of a black climber who was living like a climbing bum in a van...and...yep....I could really see that for sure. White guy and his girlfriend sleeping (illegally) in their van, not causing any trouble.... no issue. Black dude sleeping in a rural place - locals call da police.

Oh yeah, that MUST be the reason.

Usual tosh, from the usual quarter.

I don't know if that is directed at me or the podcast subject or the podcast host.

If it's not a subject you are open to considering then you are welcome to ignore. I place it here to allow others who maybe interested and open to hearing people's opinions the opportunity to hear about this podcast.

I can hear two dejected sighs, one from the Lancashire valleys, one from the Northumberland wastelands

Sorry has this been done?

Normally of the opinion that most of this is dross, that the main reason is that black people tend to live in cities, and that it’s an expensive sport requiring loads of cash and an audi to get to the trails.

This point of view is considered and discussed.

Sorry has this been done?

Just the general theme. Nothing wrong with your topic but the pattern is well established.

It was a thread less to discuss the subject blindly but more to publicise and discuss the podcast.

Around here in Bolton, there is quite a large Indian and ****stan community, and before lockdown I have rarely seen families or Individuals out on the moors enjoying the scenery. During lockdown I have noticed more and more which is great to see in my opinion. Lots on bikes, lots walking.

I mentioned it on the Commencal WC bikes thread as they'd put BLM logos on their bikes which seemed disingenuous as surely it's incumbent on them to do something about it, not just protest. It does seem bizarre that teams seem unable to field a non-caucasian rider (and in the case of a lot of them it's all men too).

DH is (was?) massive in Japan, why no riders?

I don't know the reason, but I can't remember the last time I saw a black MTBer at the trails. Elliot Jackson is the only Black MTB Pro I know of.

I hope things will change, 10 years ago you almost never saw Women at Trail Centres, now whilst far from 50%, there are loads of female riders.

Around here in Bolton, there is quite a large Indian and ****stan community, and before lockdown I have rarely seen families or Individuals out on the moors enjoying the scenery. During lockdown I have noticed more and more which is great to see in my opinion. Lots on bikes, lots walking.

I'd noticed similar here round Derby and Nottingham. Maybe not "proper" mountain biking - to be fair, I don't do much of that myself any more - but noticeably more BAME people out in the countryside, walking, family friendly off road riding, and road riding. Great to see, and needs to be supported.

Saw a couple of women of South Asian origin - undoubtedly the wrong phrase - riding on a local track when I was out with a mate, and we both commented that we'd never have seen that even 2-3 years ago. Whether those communities are feeling more confident in themselves to go out and ride, or some of the barriers have been removed, I couldn't say. I know groups like Cycling UK are actively promoting diversity and showing more role models

Thanks for the link, I'll listen to it later.

I see at least one person has already made up their mind of course, why have a discussion when you can get angry at the title.

Around here in Bolton, there is quite a large Indian and ****stan community, and before lockdown I have rarely seen families or Individuals out on the moors enjoying the scenery. During lockdown I have noticed more and more which is great to see in my opinion.

I've definitely noticed this around Sheffield. Prior to lockdown I can't recall ever seeing Asian families about the peak, but it's fairly common at the moment. It may be that people's usual activities have been curtailed by Covid, but it's good to see.

I'm very aware that MTB is an obviously 'white' sport. Will listen to the podcast later. Thanks for the link.

Oh yeah, that MUST be the reason.

Usual tosh, from the usual quarter.

I have a simple question for you, why is this "tosh."

There's a huge prejudice against cycling in South Asian communities, which I think prevents a lot from taking up cycling. But racism exists in bike clubs same as everywhere; I used to ride with a club in Blackburn and I can remember two Asian lads who joined, came out for a few rides but were not made welcome by a couple of members so stopped coming.

When I was involved with Brecon National Park they had an initiative to actively reach out to the asian community in south wales, to encourage them into the Park. Folks that answered the call were often surprised to find the open spaces almost on their doorstep.
I recently rode the Sandstone Way and as we were just past St Cuthbert's Cave an asian family were making their way on foot up to it. I doubt one would have seen that twenty years ago.
Integration's a two way process.

Been seeing a few more non-white faces out on the trails in recent times, which is cool.

Will listen to the podcast, not only because I find Eliot Jackson's voice very relaxing, but because I'm genuinely interested to hear what he has to say on the issue.

I understand why some people bridle at talk of "racism" in MTB, when it's perhaps more a lack of inclusion as opposed to active exclusion - but this type of discussion isn't always going to be easy or comfortable.

I see your point, but for me its like if these people have these views I would rather they express them so they can be told they are racist and its not acceptable. Not being racist isn't enough these days we have to be anti racist.

I used to work in an office where I ,unusually , was the token white man. A lot of the black guys who worked there were into various sports but not cycling. I don't know if it was because they didn't see anybody like themselves in the sport or they simply weren't interested. One of the women who worked there who was of ****stani origin found all the campaigns to get BAME people in to the countryside hilarious. She said her parents came from a village and didn't see the country as a place for leisure. They associated the country , cycling and walking with poverty. I would think younger BAME people wouldn't have that cultural baggage so hopefully more can be done to encourage participation.

what is the TL;DL version?

what is the TL;DL version?

They said it was all your fault.

I’m very aware that MTB is an obviously ‘white’ sport.

Is it ?.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Mountain_Bike_Championships

Or MTB India.
https://www.townscript.com/e/mtbh20

Appears to be flourishing.

I do wonder though, if in either of these two championships, some bloke is saying " You know, i'm beginning to this this is a racist sport, I've only ever seen 2 white guys competing "

Some farmer shouted obscenities at me last month. I guess all farmers hate MTb.....OH NO, wait a sec.....

She said her parents came from a village and didn’t see the country as a place for leisure. They associated the country , cycling and walking with poverty.

I mean she was right though - young white adults (18-29) are lagging behind BAME employees in terms of pay partly because their white parents fled the cities.

It was a thread less to discuss the subject blindly but more to publicise and discuss the podcast.

Wait, you thought people would give it a listen before commenting????? 🤣

They said it was all your fault.

makes sense

I would think younger BAME people wouldn’t have that cultural baggage so hopefully more can be done to encourage participation

Everyone has their own reasons but read a good point by a black women about walking (and same point made on podcast) that many people didn't go into the country side as kids because their parents were so busy having just arrived in the UK. It's a bigger thing to do if you're not in the habit on top of not seeing people like yourself out there.

As I said not everyone who isn't white story is the same just as the story of every white person isn't the same but it's a good point.

They said it was all your fault.

No "they" didn't.

Is it ?.

Yes. Non whites are very very unrepresented in MTB.

Try the podcast, listen to some of the points made. You may not agree with all of it but there are solid counter arguments to all of the standard argument that "it's not a white sport" or 'there is nothing stopping "them' etc.

Go with an open mind and listen

Not sure of the question, as i don't think there is racism in mountain biking, there may be people with racist views, same as every walk of life with every ism being seen.

Through 20 odd years of doing this i don't see mountain biking in the way i've been involved as being racist, it's not exactly a closed environment that requires some kind of entrance criteria or acceptance, you buy a bike from any shop, get some skills, join a group via many forums (facebook, clubs, work, friends, etc, etc) and go out into the publicly accessible areas, you can ride alone, with a mate, or with a group.

The question as to why certain groups in society are under represented in this activity is a question for those groups, and it's a wider grouping than just a colour.

Not sure of the question

it wasn’t a question, it was the title of a podcast? Was my take home. Thanks OP, will give it a listen later.

Wait, you thought people would give it a listen before commenting?????

No but I did hope for a better level of decussion rather than having people get in flap before even openly considering the subject.

Living in South East asia for several years, I saw MTBs as more of a rich mans toy,(although becoming more popular in places), and dont forget, its damn hot mostly, so riding up mountains is a different story
And as FOG says, outdoors is seen as a poor mans place, with a lot of emphasis on paler skin seen as a status simple, which keeps people out of the sun. So I guess there are cultural taboos in place which dismiss the idea of mountain biking
That said, I have seen a lot more asians outdoors in parks here than before covid

We need more TheBricks on here.

Thanks for the link. The topic has come up around an event I'm involved with and it's as interesting as it is complicated, still at the listen/learn stage.

The question as to why certain groups in society are under represented in this activity is a question for those groups,

I think it's a question for us all? You're right that you and I as white middle aged blokes (I am anyway, I'm making an assumption about you there sorry) aren't able to answer it but you might look at brand marketing or events etc in a different way having heard some of the opinions and then we might see how we can help change happen where it's needed.

and it’s a wider grouping than just a colour

“Let’s talk about white people as well”

I’ll have a listen to the podcast…

So this is another non-story then?

Living in South East asia for several years, I saw MTBs as more of a rich mans toy,(although becoming more popular in places), and dont forget, its damn hot mostly, so riding up mountains is a different story

I saw more expensive roadbikes in a small area in Makati Manila than I've ever seen in London. The middle and upper classes in East Asia are a lot more outdoorsy than most people assume.

Maybe you idiots should go and actually ask some BAME riders if you thought there were issues, tactfully of course, there are plenty of BAME riders round Sheffield so it's not like they don't exist.

Maybe you idiots

Make a point not an insult it degrades any point you are trying to make.

Try a listen. The podcast is primarily aimed at North America / Europe.

I like some of the points made in the podcast, I aimed that at some others.

kelvin
Full Member
and it’s a wider grouping than just a colour

“Let’s talk about white people as well”

I’ll have a listen to the podcast…

Posted 27 minutes ago

I actually meant that as within the black demographic you have sub-groups, to just ask at the higher level may miss out on certain answers, i.e. groups who have been born and raised in the UK, groups who are first generation UK, groups who live in cities, etc, etc. It just seems if you want to work out why, you need to know the many inputs, otherwise all you'll get is a generic answer to a generic question.

Is a lack of representation automatically racism ? I don't quite get that bit.

There may be reasons for it, but is racism always the cause.?

Dyna-ti

Is it ?.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Mountain_Bike_Championships
/a>

Or MTB India.
https://www.townscript.com/e/mtbh20
/a>

I love that you posted a link to african mtb championships wiki. Just look at the race of all the people who have won the majority of them are white well done for proving your own point wrong. Im just gonna assume you haven't even listened to the podcast.