[Closed] Race face narrow wide dropping chain

Narrow wide is only good for mincing. 4 times dropped is 4 times too many for a product that is supposed to keep the chain on.
I've purchased a MRP AMG after 3 rides.

I'm running one with slx chain and xt clutch rear mech with a standard cassette (no extra big sprocket jobby) and it's been fine, no dropped chain after a few big rides round super rocky lakes bridle ways, I'm impressed.

I did BPW with the same ring and chain, no drops at all. Zee mech and no giant cog though, maybe that helps.

It'll be the extra chain length for the 42T sprocket that's causing that I reckon. There must be quite a bit of chain flap once you're using the low/middle of the cassette

Even Sram originally said the XX!/Narrow-wide can only be run sans-chain device in "some conditions".

Just realised that you don't even have a top guide?

It's your One up that is to blame. To accommodate you require a chain length that is just too long to stay on board in the higher gears in rough terrain.

Maybe the 40T is better?

I ended up with a chain device as well as I couldn't stand the chain slap, which makes having a narrow/wide pointless!

Another solution if your chainslap isn't too bad is a top guide or a bash ring, both of which should prevent chain loss.

Had a standard triple on before with a long cage clutch mech and didn't drop the chain once last time at BPW so I'm guessing it's jumping off the top. I even took a link out at lunchtime which meant it wouldn't shift onto the 42 but still lost it down one of the blacks. Got a Turner Sultan which has long chainstays, possibly doesn't help. I could put the long cage mech back on to see if that helps but it's a bit twisted. Who makes the best top guides?

Hi mate, it was a great day enjoyed it a lot great place and service. Take it your chain cassette aren't worn or getting worn. Dave also dropped his chain a fair bit on his orange but he was also getting host shifting as well yesterday worth a check! tolerances are probably more important with this set up I'd think.

I'm running a Hope N/W 32T with an XT med clutch mech and 11/36T, dropped the chain twice at BPW last Wednesday. Both on Insufficient Funds hammering through the rock gardens. On my 5 so have to run a decent length of chain to cope with the chain growth on full compression.

I'll be butchering my old chain device to run just the top guide for uplift days from now on. Yet to drop the chain on normal riding.

Setup almost identical to yours with the only dif being the rear mech (SLX). Dropped the chain once but that was because I'd not switched on the clutch.

Have you tried tightening the clutch?

Edit: sorry just noticed you have one of those daft cogs on the rear which scraps my initial comment.

You sure the clutch is working: they can break internally.

All parts nearly new, clutch working OK, might try tightening it up but it's only 4 or 5 rides old so wouldn't expect it to have slackened off significantly. Already shortened the chain and still dropped it so can't see going to a 40t would make much difference, anyway my legs like the 42. Besides the sram x11 is supposed to work with a dinner plate cassette, obv not quite the same thing but still. Looks like a top guide is the way to go, any recommendations? Bloody industry hype, pah.

I have these on 4 bikes, never dropped a chain. That's thousands of miles and a lot of racing.

Chain length? Is the clutch turned on? Was it whilst back-pedalling?

Dropped another chain today at FOD on the Vererders.
40t hope Jobbie.
They should come with a recommendation NOT to use with anything bigger than a 11/32 cassette.
Fingers crossed my MRP will be delivered tomorrow.

I ran a KMC chain and it made quite a bit of noise, as if my gears weren't indexed right, went back to XT and it's been silent, only dropped the chain once so far. I'm running;

X0 short cage clutch
RF 32NW
XT chain
XT 11/36 cassette
No guide

Love it.

XX1 chainring on an X01 setup, forgotten how many times I lost the chain on that, also on a 34T/11-36T on my HT, lots of lost chains.

Run a guide on both now (just top) and no more problems.

It's a lot better than no fat/thin ring, but it's by no means perfect.

They should come with a recommendation NOT to use with anything bigger than a 11/32 cassette.

Not sure why the chainring manufacturer should care about you modifying your cassette

Which guides do you run Hob Nob?

Dropped the chain on the first time out on my N/W with a 11-34 and zee mech on upper cliff, Cannock. Funnily it never dropped at Stile cop but i'm going to get a top guide for security.

Brilliant for natural/xc riding but just OK for rutted trail centres and rougher riding is what i'd say

I run an mrp carbon amg on my alpine 160, only lasted a few weeks without any guide, dropped the chain 3 or 4 times, once landing a road gap and the other few times just on chattery rooty stuff, I'd rather not risk losing a chain, especially when racing so went for a top guide, no more dropped chains. Still happy to lose the bottom roller of a full on guide.

I took my Sultan for a spin today for the first time since it's rebuild. I'm running the exact same gear except I'm using SRAM chains (114 links).

I didn't get any drop today, buy I'm an xc jeyboy.

I can't see N/W being drop free, but I'm waiting to see how much of a problem it's going to be before deciding on putting a chain device on.

Dave if you interested I've got an MRP g2 iscg 05 and a hope band clamp top guide, guide if you want a deal 😀

Could well be Carl, will text you

Dave, good to see you had a good day despite chain retention issues. Afan was good, bit of whites then blade trail for the first time which was fun. A good mixture of singletrack, sorrel berms & rocky descents 🙂

MRP AMG for me as I wanted something to protect the ring, without having to run a bash.

It was a bit of a pain in the ass to get it to fit my enduro, as the chain stay caught it when it's in the 'ideal' position, I just had to rotate it a bit further forward.

No more dropped chains though now 🙂

I've only lost my chain twice on my RF N/W ring and they were both at BPW, both in the same spot. Can't remember which run it was but there was a large g-out and the chain hopped off. Didn't drop n any of the rocky stuff, just there. Other than that it's been fine although it is starting to wear now.

I think at some point I'll end up with a top guide if it starts to drop on a regular basis.

My RF N/W only lasted 6/7months and has now start to drop the chain,
RF 34t Narrow/wide
KMC chain
SLX Clutch mech
SLX 11-36 cassette

Swaped for a Vectoix N/W I see if that will last longer. First observation is the teeth are bigger on the Vectiox but still runs very smooth.

Also might put the RF one on backwards on the other bike to see if I can a couple more mouths out of it.

also had problems with my RF narrow wide dropping, with sram clutch mech

fitted a top guide and still managed to drop it on my qualify run at Ae this weekend

EWS racers on xxi seem to run full guides too
[img] [/img]

Am I doing something wrong?

Narrow-wide with a 2002 XTR rear mech. I've not dropped the chain once and around 'here its all rocky- no smooth trails.

I think its in the chain length- mines bang-on just on the edge of being short. Its not though and the mech doesn't pull forward at all.

possibly related to suspension design?

Ive tried a few different chain lengths and have it possibly a wee bit short now and still lost it

only happens on really rocky stuff , downhill tracks at Ae etc!

Mines a straight forward single pivot if it 'helps'?

Self confessed mincer? 😉

I run a top guide 70g and a non clutch mech

Not had one come off when riding my hardtail or my full-sus - but both bikes have bash rings fitted and I think that helps a lot as you tend to lose chains outwards, not inwards.

Both bikes running Zee short cage clutch mechs, Works NW rings, 11-36 XT cassettes and KMC chains as short as possible.

mine comes off inwards and ends up on the bb shell

When mine dropped, it was to the outside.

It's been fine since. I still prefer the lack of noise and drag not funning a guide (my E13 chain device was always noisy and didn't play well with my Atlas cranks when I changed the back plate to ISCG 05).

possibly related to suspension design?

Please don't tell me this 🙁 I've just bought an xt clutch rear mech, new 10 speed cassette, shifter and about to buy a raceface narrow wide chain ring to go 1x10 with no chain guide

"I didn't get any drop today, buy I'm an xc jeyboy."

No you're not!

I was talking to one of the guys in the LBS the other day about going to narrow wide and he suggested that they have no issues with their 135mm spaced rear race bikes but the same set up on the 142mm rear bikes is more problematic. Suggested it might be due to the increased offset of the chain line.

I run a 32T Raceface NW on a Cotic BFe with XTR clutch mech. Had a hope bash for the last couple of months, not a single chain drop riding everything from Swinley to Cwmcarn type terrain.

Changed crank and took bashring off, dropped chain twice on a single loop of swinley, resulting in anger and pain. Chain came off the the pedal side as opposed to BB side. (Yes, the clutch was switched on...)

Definitly something to do with either chain line or support from bash ring, or combination of.

All good info this. Which top guide are you running kimbers? I'm about to order an Mrp 1.X

I binned my narrow/wide for this reason now back to 2x10 which is more reliable.... And I can now pedal up hills properly!

ive got an MRP 1x S2 direct mount technically its for a 32t minimum but I am running a 30t ring, to be fair it only happened once all weekend of racing and my rear mech bolt (and cones on mu hub) had worked loose so it may have been that

no guide, no bash and no drops here.

Orange 5/RF 34t/SLX 11-36 cassette/short cage clutched zee running as short a chain as possible.

yet to drop the chain and even rode half my ride yesterday with a clutch off as i forgot to switch it on after getting the bike out of the car.

I was talking to one of the guys in the LBS the other day about going to narrow wide and he suggested that they have no issues with their 135mm spaced rear race bikes but the same set up on the 142mm rear bikes is more problematic. Suggested it might be due to the increased offset of the chain line.

This would be an interesting theory - except for the fact that 135mm and 142mm rear axles have the exact same cassette position! The extra 7mm is there to locate the axle in the dropout more easily.

I was talking to one of the guys in the LBS the other day about going to narrow wide and he suggested that they have no issues with their 135mm spaced rear race bikes but the same set up on the 142mm rear bikes is more problematic. Suggested it might be due to the increased offset of the chain line.

Pretty sure this is rubbish. The chain line on a 142 hub is the same as a 135. The extra 3.5 mm each side just allows the rear wheel to sit into pockets on the fame so that the thru-axle is easy to slot in.

I didn't lose my chain at fort william, or enduro racing at innerleithen, on my Ragley... Mate has no chain device on his wolfridge, he doesn't hang about and never had a problem. Wonder what the user error is? 😉

Works n/w ring KMC x10l chain and a sram x9 short cage clutch mech here.

Dropped 3 times, once in mud, twice at Llandgela (lol!).

Running an MRP AMG guide now, no rubbing, no more fuss, no more drops.

I've only lost mine once with the clutch 'on' (3-4 times when forgetting to switch it on) and that was pootling along a fire road? From memory, its been fine otherwise.

Pah! Lost mine twice yesterday going over a few rocky bits on my hardtail, can't say i'm impressed at 40 quid a ring, saying that, the shimano cog i had on before it was popping off when i looked at it sideways so 2 drops instead of 10+ in the same loop. In conclusion, they're all right, but don't believe the hype, you will end up dropping your chain at some point.

trickydisco - Member
Please don't tell me this I've just bought an xt clutch rear mech, new 10 speed cassette, shifter and about to buy a raceface narrow wide chain ring to go 1x10 with no chain guide

You'll be fine, you'll find the vast majority have no trouble at all. I for think one think n/w and clutch combo to be superb.

The benefit of a silent drive-train coupled with the minimalist appearance and ultra-low maintenance is priceless.

I only had one drop using 2x front shifter with a clutch mech but it was in a race! Trying this 1x with a big bash guard and hoping it cures all ills

To counter all those suggesting that as they've never dropped a chain off a narrow wide and therefore those that have are ham fisted bodgers who have obviously borked the installation may I be the first to suggest that you all stop fannying around and let go of the bloody brakes? 😉

speak from my position of no experience at all...

mine comes off inwards and ends up on the bb shell
When mine dropped, it was to the outside.

I suspect the way the Marin backend moves has something to do with it.

run a 32T Raceface NW on a Cotic BFe...not a single chain drop

Wonder how the single n clutch thing will go down in history, success, failure or is it just problems from mix n match setups? Any news on results from running SRAM XX1 throughout? Or do they not suffer from chain drop being parked outside the trail centre cafe all day 😉

Would suggest that folks having issues with dropping adjust the clutch on their Shimano mechs. Bit more friction on the clutch will help it out. Just done mine, as it was a little flappy - I think they'll loosen a bit over time.

And as an added bonus, you get to marvel at how the clever folks at Shimano have built a little adjusting wrench into the design, and actually made it part of the structure of the clutch mechanism.

Of course, if you're on SRAM, you just need to wait until it breaks.

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Tech-Tuesday-Inside-Shimanos-Shadow-Plus-Mech-and-How-To-Adjust-.html

davosaurusrex - Member

To counter all those suggesting that as they've never dropped a chain off a narrow wide and therefore those that have are ham fisted bodgers who have obviously borked the installation may I be the first to suggest that you all stop fannying around and let go of the bloody brakes?

8 minutes down the world cup track isn't fast, but it's not so bad on a hardtail with xc tyres on and a crash in the middle 😉

"I didn't get any drop today, buy I'm an xc jeyboy."
No you're not!

Well, a pie eating jeyboy then.

I jusr fitted a Works Components 34t to my Slx double. The chainline is awful in the low gears (10?speed cassette) and falls down 3 sprockets whe back-pedaled. Was thinking longer chainring bolts with a spacer to move the ring slightly towards the center? I don't want to ride it as it is and am waiting to hear from WC as to solutions. The chain also slightly catches the second smallest sprocket and skips a little (at the top of the cassette) when back pedaling. Any suggestions?

32 n/w with x9 rear mech. Dropped once on a rock garden, then i removed one more link and it's been great. I did the 4 link overlap without the chain in the rear mech to get my chain length. Then took off another after riding for a day or so. That's on a meta am

I jusr fitted a Works Components 34t to my Slx double. The chainline is awful in the low gears (10?speed cassette) and falls down 3 sprockets whe back-pedaled. Was thinking longer chainring bolts with a spacer to move the ring slightly towards the center? I don't want to ride it as it is and am waiting to hear from WC as to solutions. The chain also slightly catches the second smallest sprocket and skips a little (at the top of the cassette) when back pedaling. Any suggestions?

Sounds like your hanger alignment is out too.

I jusr fitted a Works Components 34t to my Slx double. The chainline is awful in the low gears (10?speed cassette) and falls down 3 sprockets whe back-pedaled. Was thinking longer chainring bolts with a spacer to move the ring slightly towards the center? I don't want to ride it as it is and am waiting to hear from WC as to solutions. The chain also slightly catches the second smallest sprocket and skips a little (at the top of the cassette) when back pedaling. Any suggestions?

Stop back pedalling... this is where most dropped chains will come from.

I did the 4 link overlap without the chain in the rear mech to get my chain length.

So what's the guidance regarding chain length with 1x10 and narrow wide?

Anyone got a picture they can show me 🙂

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one!

I've been chasing chain-drop problems around my 1x10 setup for the last couple of months - I now hope (pray) that it is at an end. I am running a Zee mech, so with a top guide on as well, I think I am close to the gold standard for chain security(!)

My initial problem was caused by a bent mech hanger. Straightened it out, but didn't take into account the accelerated wear on the jockey wheels. What I think was happening was that a tiny amount of back-pedal would cause the lower jockey wheel to seize and thus move the mech cage - the resulting chain slack was then causing the chain to be able to bounce off the front ring.

I have popped a top guide on now and had not more chain drop problems, although it was getting a bit close again on my last ride (I could hear a problem). Turns out the two innermost bearings on my hope freehub had disintegrated to the point where the cassette had a noticeable wobble. Replaced the bearings and everything seems fine (although I have yet to ride it in anger).

On balance I think the narrow-wide still has my vote, but it is not the panacea that people make it out to be. The basics of decent drivetrain set-up still need some attention.

trickydisco - Member

So what's the guidance regarding chain length with 1x10 and narrow wide?

Same as with anything else, do it properly- air out of shock, compress through travel. Anything else is a bodge.

Of course, if you're on SRAM, you just need to wait until it breaks.

So what's the guidance regarding chain length with 1x10 and narrow wide?

short as it'll go in lowest gear at full shock compression.

short as it'll go in lowest gear at full shock compression.

Cheers.. don't need to worry about that as I ride a slackline HT 🙂

Mine started dropping the chain. I tightened the clutch a it did not fall off today. I ride dh drops and jumps but not too many rocks

I have 1x10 setup on my five with race face narrow wide and zee mech and haven't dropped a chain since (circa 250 miles) in Lakes with variety of terrain inc drops, rocks, steps etc.

Recently added a hope T-Rex 40t expander to my setup and introduced another couple of links but still no issues on two most recent rides on same sort of terrain. No need for a chain device IMO

No need for a chain device IMO

I think I might agree on balance, but I've chased my chain drop issues around so much that I kind of put the device on mine in a bit of a daze. A bit of extra security can't hurt, though.

Interestingly I have never had too much trouble with chain dropping on anything involving bigger rocks or jumps or what people might consider to be 'aggressive' riding or terrain.

The worst thing for me has always been higher speed stuff involving stuttery bumps, roots in particular. I find that sort of trail rattles the chain at just the right frequency to make it drop more than any other stuff.

Anyway, I'm hoping it is solved for me now. I can't afford a Rohloff or an Alfine!

Fixed mine 🙂
[IMG] [/IMG]
Narrow wide for sale £28

Sounds like your hanger alignment is out too.

You would need 2.5mm spacers for correct chainline on a double chainset.

short as it'll go in lowest gear at full shock compression.

I've just swapped over one of the spacers on the bottom bracket. It's now two on the left and one on the right. The chain line looks and sounds much better in bottom and top doesn't seem affected. Thanks for the tip. Will see how it runs on Friday.
I'm running Raceface NW, Shimano XT cassette with 17 removed and Wolftooth 42 added.

just as a matter of interest do any suspension designs get reduce effective chainstay length as the shock compresses?

They vary quite a lot - shortest is often around the sag point, not zero compression. Likewise longest isn't always at full travel by any means!