PSA: Zwift price increase

"still cheaper than Trainer Road"

It's $20 - around £16pm.

I really like TrainerRoad, espcially their new red light/green light thing. But even at £16pm I'm thinking of binning that and doing it myself in Garmin or Golden Cheetah. I only ever did my own workouts in Zwift, I couldn't gaf what all the cartoon bikes are doing.

I used GC years ago, and once you get your head around it, it is a pretty powerful platform.

...Or maybe take up running again through winter...

I’m guessing the UCI moving to mywhoosh for the official virtual cycling competition will have hit them financially

molgrips

That’s all pretty meaningless though. What we really want is features that actually do stuff.

What are you on about? My response you quoted, was directly in relation to this statement from another poster:

"I wouldn’t mind if they were constantly developing new tracks, realistic scenery etc. but it hasn’t drastically changed since I started using it over 4 years ago."

To which, I pointed out that actually there has been quite a lot of development in that area. I didn't mention 'features that actually do stuff' as that wasn't the gist of the sentence I was replying to.
And given that the main reason I signed up to Zwift back in 2016 was to stave off boredom through something moderately engaging to look at, I would say new routes & scenery is relatively important to me.

I do however agree that there's lots of other stuff they could improve on. I'd like a proper training/workout environment within Zwift, for a start.

I only ever used Zwift once a week and very very ocasionally twice. For me even when it was 12.99 it was borderline value for money.

I wish they did a tiered pricing scheme depending how much you use it a month. £5 for 5 hours a month or something along those lines

I do however agree that there’s lots of other stuff they could improve on. I’d like a proper training/workout environment within Zwift, for a start.

I almost wish they'd buyout/integrate Xert - that combo would be very impressive - but only if allowed to hide your MPA as I don't need to be seeing that as I'm getting ripped apart. Unfortunately in it's current form Zwift isn't even able to copy a lot of the ramps (up or down) that Xert uses

They've not learned from their last £5pcm hike backlash back around '18, but back then, there weren't many options.

Increasing the price by 5.5% per year since '18 would have got less reaction than the ~38% hike in one hit announced yesterday.

Why didn't they raise prices during the turbo training boom use during the early months of the pandemic? Were they afraid of RGT offering free use?

I do however agree that there’s lots of other stuff they could improve on. I’d like a proper training/workout environment within Zwift, for a start.

Increasing the price by 5.5% per year since ’18 would have got less reaction than the ~38% hike in one hit announced yesterday.

I was until last night a member since 2017, I never raced or group ride it was more of an encouragement to ride more through winter on my turbo and occasionally through summer when the weather was shit. I was contemplating on pausing membership over summer to save some money. If they did a tier membership where I could only free ride and not use the other features for about £10 a month i'd happily go back. But with limited funds and everything else on the increase things have had to go. I've already dumped my Netflix and Amazon prime and Disney caught me out with the auto renewal else that would have gone over summer.

As mentioned in the post above if the price went gradually up I probably wouldn't have noticed as much. I'll look more into the other options come winter but in the  meantime i'm happy cycling outside and doing the odd Garmin workout while watching YouTube.

I cancelled yesterday, and filled in the survey asking why. When I got to the page asking me to tick the features I'd never used, I ticked all but two. I've never entered a race, never ridden with a group, only once ridden with a mate. I used it purely to replace my road riding when the weather was bad, so only solo free riding, where I found the scenery and variety of virtual terrain to be less dull than my garage wall, and found some slight motivation in collecting route badges.

For me, the ideal pricing model would be pay per use with a cap, something under £2 a ride with a cap around £15 a month.

I believe there is a "Day Pass" option under development. Someone found some code in one of the pages related to this.

And you still get a minimum of 25km per month when out of subscription.

If MyWhoosh is a rival to Zwift, and having read a couple of reviews it does look quite good, how is it free?!

If MyWhoosh is a rival to Zwift, and having read a couple of reviews it does look quite good, how is it free?!

Standard VC model when entering a market already well(ish) served. Take initial losses to build customer base and hopefully bankrupt the opposition and then start charging.

Well I'm sure their customer base is about grow significantly

MyWhoosh is free because it is part of  Abu Dhabi and the UAE's sportswashing programme.

https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buyers-guides/mywhoosh-your-complete-guide

'MyWhoosh says that instead of charging users, it will look to generate income through other revenue streams such as in-game advertising.'

Standard VC model when entering a market already well(ish) served. Take initial losses to build customer base and hopefully bankrupt the opposition and then start charging.

the more cynical might suggest it's actually part of a sports-washing campaign by certain nations (see also, World Cup 2022 & LIV golf) to improve their public image and distract from human rights abuses 🤔

where I found the scenery and variety of virtual terrain to be less dull than my garage wall

I don't understand using Zwift but not racing. If you've got a tablet/device infront of you, why not watch TV?

Actually seeing an environment that changes according to the effort you put in is much better than just watching something else that doesn't engage with your actions. However for what I use it for, and given the price increase, that is what I will start doing.

I don’t understand

"Is it not just obvious that different people like different things?"

Not a dig at anyone..

But I've found a suprising number of people don't get this.

I wish they did a tiered pricing scheme depending how much you use it a month.

I'm not sure I'd be a fan of a tiered pricing scheme if I used it a lot but the current pricing is definitely not something justifiable for me.

I've gone for months without using it and I let the subscription run because I know I can jump on when I do want to use it.

Even when I do use it, it's mostly just to log the miles on a flat route while I do Z2 or recovery, while watching a documentary or something.

I wouldn't be too bothered if I was on 5 days a week, racing and following training plans. I'd already paused mine until next month but I'll be cancelling it now.

But what is the implication here? You think others are wrong/stupid because they enjoy something in a different way to you?

No - when I say "I don't understand" it's not a value judgement, it just literally means I don't understand.  I mean of course, like what they like, but I don't see the attraction.  For me, watching the Zwift scenery is not enough to keep my interest.

I quite like riding round normally on zwift, especially on a pleasant route like sand and sequoias. It's just like riding a familiar route outside as long as you've got a smart turbo only with no cars and no rain.

I like racing too, but some races are pointless, I'm never going to even bother the top half on a hilly route.

I like racing too, but some races are pointless, I’m never going to even bother the top half on a hilly route.

The best way, IMO, is to do the same races regularly each week. Then you can monitor your progress.  You also start remembering the names of people who just beat you, then you can start racing them - it's way more fun.  Zwift also gives you the names of your nemesis.

prawny

I quite like riding round normally on zwift, especially on a pleasant route like sand and sequoias. It’s just like riding a familiar route outside as long as you’ve got a smart turbo only with no cars and no rain.

I like racing too, but some races are pointless, I’m never going to even bother the top half on a hilly route.

Yeah, I quite like a cruise round watching stuff go by when doing a Z2 slog in the winter or when the rain is pouring down.
Pacebots really help with this too, as you have to use a reasonable amount of concentration to stay within the group. I try to stay mentally alert by aiming to stay within +/-5m of the bot.

I used Zwift loads when training for the Dirty Reiver & even a 3 hour session was perfectly doable.
I tend to have music on as well, or get a load of podcasts ready & churn through them.

There's a few of us from here who do regular meet-up workouts with the elastic band activated. That is another good aspect of Zwift. You can all do your own thing - completely different workouts at different fitness & power levels - but you all stay together on screen & can help/encourage/wind each other up, as applicable.

I enjoy the racing aspect, but seem to do it in fits & starts. It's definitely good for sharpening your fitness up, or just realising how slug-like you currently are.

Anyway - in all likelihood I will keep my subscription going. Even through the summer I am normally on twice a week, so it still represents good value.

I like racing too, but some races are pointless, I’m never going to even bother the top half on a hilly route.

Anyway – in all likelihood I will keep my subscription going. Even through the summer I am normally on twice a week, so it still represents good value.

It's a pity you can't link those Smart Trainers up to any game. I'd love to cycle around the old west in Red Dead Redemption 2. You could have bits where you have to outsprint a pack of Wolves, or hunt down the Pinkertons in a gang of MAMILs.

Cancelled mine. Might restart in winter. Seems a silly time of year to do a price hike.

Ha, I keep returning to an idea of hosting in-person turbo nights at a local studio.

I know a few people have done this in cycling clubs pre-zwift. I think if you wanted it to be popular I'd look into getting accredited as a spin instructor, then rent a local gym's studio and advertising that you're doing specific structured classes.

How about a velodrome? That would be great.

I'm not sure how well it would work. It could be done, but a lot of the tactics in a velodrome rely on it being crowded and easy to get blocked in. They'd have to re-write the game engine to stop it just being a case of just accelerating to ride over the avatar in front.

Solo events like pursuits, time trials and flying laps would work.

Devils, and scratches would need some new modeling. I guess you could do it with "lanes", divide the track into 10 lanes and give a speed boost/drop each time you have to move up and down the banking.

Sprints would never work. They'd just have to be done as a flying lap.

The price hike now allows "northern" Zwifters to perhaps calm down over the summer before their usual return to the turbo over the winter, plus allows Zwift some time to bring in new features before the "northern" masses stop riding outdoors.

But it also allows Zwift competitors time to lure unhappy Zwifters away.

Zwift nerds - I did a race last night ('B' category, enforced) and averaged 4.0w/kg. That was higher than everyone who placed higher than me according to the summary at the end, but I was 49th! What's that about?

Average power doesn't really determine the race, sit in the bunch and then sprint for the finish.

Your choice of frame and wheels can affect things too.

That was higher than everyone who placed higher than me according to the summary at the end, but I was 49th! What’s that about?

Ah, well, I've got until Jun 5th to improve before my last £12.99 month runs out...

It’s a pity you can’t link those Smart Trainers up to any game. I’d love to cycle around the old west in Red Dead Redemption 2

You can if you know how:

I can't find the original video I saw which included typical GTA style hilarity.

I’m not a masochist so don’t enter single races that clearly don’t suit me (like very hilly ones!)

It's a big issue (and to be fair, one they've tried to work on) that you can be a much higher standard for hilly races than flat ones or vice versa. As a 'sprint athlete' (putting it generously) I select the crit races, which are the most fun IMO.  You get tactical races and skinny climbers do win some by being clever.

I’ve also tried this which has some built in Zwift workouts. You can add your own workouts (Google  “ZWO workout creator”)

https://flux-web.vercel.app/

👍

That'll do for what I need.

The price hike now allows “northern” Zwifters to perhaps calm down over the summer before their usual return to the turbo over the winter, plus allows Zwift some time to bring in new features before the “northern” masses stop riding outdoors.

Maybe, I can see myself re-subscribing next winter for a couple of months if the weather was as bad as this winter.

But £180/year is taking the piss for a videogame.

As a ‘sprint athlete’ (putting it generously) I select the crit races, which are the most fun IMO.

I'll check that out.. in October.

I've thought this over through the day.  I very rarely race and just need a platform to handle my training work outs.  Ordinarily I don't interact with zwift using the chat, I don't race, I don't complete the challenges.   I use zwift as there was more of less only one option.  Now there appear to be several which will fit my requirement, I guess this means I'm heading down the route of binning it.

I’ve been through exactly the same thought process today @ernie and decided to bin it. I was only scratching the surface of what it could do and never raced so it’s gone.

As far as I'm aware, they haven't changed the 25Km free trail for an account per calendar month.

You can usually finish the ride that takes you over 25Km, but last week my avatar stopped dead when I had just started a portal climb ride. Perhaps because I had less than 1km of trail left when I started the portal ride?

That's a big increase in price glad I gave up on it.

I'm only paying £7.99 for Bkool

Most customers are going to quietly sigh and carry on paying anyway!

I think this will be me. I've been on Zwift since 2016, and it's just part of my life. My next charge is $14.99. It started at $10 in 2016. I haven't seen the email yet about the new price. There's been so much more added since I started! During Covid, it was great. Weeksy got a social ride going, and DrP beat us up! Mostly, now, I ride with pace partners. And listen to some music. As someone else said further up, I like the distraction of the scenery. I used to turbo just watching TV, but it bored me.

I never really got on with Zwift, i found it to "Tron" like and love Wahoo SYSTM, mostly due to the variety of documentaries and different types of workout, from Sufferfest and its humour, to the "on location" rides, and the fact that it gives you the sports science on the screen and tells you why you are doing the particular efforts.

But, reading this thread, if STW members are representative of Zwift users, they might be in trouble, thats a lot of cancellations.

They are in financial trouble, they had planned to release a Zwift indoor training bike, like Wahoo's but shelved it

I wonder if the Zwift Play controller and Zwift Click virtual gearing hardware side projects haven't covered their development costs too.

I never really got on with Zwift, i found it to “Tron” like and love Wahoo SYSTM

I like Zwift, for me I find it has the variety I want of social/racing/structured workouts/scenery. I can't stomach the price increase though. Perhaps come winter when I'm on it most days I'll change my mind - but the price is now a massive deterrent from resubscribing for the odd month here or there when I've got too much on to ride outside.

I started on Rouvy and I enjoyed the scenery, but I got bored. No racing on Rouvy.

It's a big increase isn't it? Like a few on here it sounds like Zwift is generally poorer value for me in the summer because it goes from regular/few times a week to much more irregular, maybe not at all some months. With other things like Spotify going up too, and Discovery + being more expensive than GCN + was, some of my subscriptions are likely to get cancelled/paused and Zwift has moved closer to the top of that list. Haven't cancelled yet though!

For whatever reason, I just find it hard to do the indoor cycling thing. Doesn't matter if it is Zwift, Wahoo or Trainer Road, after a few weeks I just loose interest.

I tend to do the outdoor/lights rides in winter with a little bit of running.

I’ve binned my subscription for the summer, just to add to the list. Will give it another look come winter, which when I tend to use it more regularly.
Had a peek at the MyWoosh or whatever it’s called - looks okay, and if they want to give it away free, might give it a go - won’t change my perspective on their medieval attitudes toward human rights.

I think I'll have a go on Mywhoosh. I haven't been on zwift since a free month earlier this year and a decent while before that.

Need to make more use of the smart trainer.

The price increase seems very badly timed: like many here I was about to cancel Zwift for the summer IRL season - this is a good reminder to do that immediately.

It might have been a better strategy to wait until mid summer to do the increase, when we are all less interested, and by the winter when people re-subscribe it will be the new normal.

Cancel and try Mywhoosh here too.

I signed up for the Indie Velo beta months and months ago, but because I usually turbo using an Android mobile, I couldn't try it for a while and then forgot.

Must get around to trying it now I also have the option of a Surface Pro 4 for turbo use, apparently it has crazy physics including things like wind! 😮

Signed up for Mywhoosh today and did a quick ride.............seems very, very similar to Zwift.

I have done some racing on Zwift, but its seasonable,  so I could just renew my account when required.

Just set up a mywoosh account and will give it a try next time the weather stops outside play.

Good timing as my next Zwift payment is due out in 3 days!
Usually can it for summer anyway like a lot of other folk on here.

Be good to try and get some STW rides on there if possible...

JB

Be good to try and get some STW rides on there if possible…

I enjoy a bit of Zwifting but always cancel my sub for the summer, will certainly look at alternatives when the winter comes back. But having just added a gravel bike to the collection there's every possibility that I'll just ride that instead.

MyWoosh not running on my Apple TV, looks like I need the 4K version

Will trial it through my phone and maybe upgrade later, kind of defeats the point of saving a bit of money though 😂

Guess it might pay for itself in about 8 months or so?

Got an email from indieVelo this morning saying that the number of registered users doubled over the past week.

Could there be a funny sort of threshold for Zwift where if they reduce the number of users enough (and remaining users pay the increased fees) they can run fewer servers or something and sort of break even?

I'm not a Zwifter but it seems such a weird and clumsy way to increase price that I can't believe they didn't anticipate the mass exodus!

it seems such a weird and clumsy way to increase price that I can’t believe they didn’t anticipate the mass exodus!

It's possible that they just need the money.

I'd have thought that announcing a price increase next month and giving folk the opportunity to sign up for 12 months at the old rate would have seen a large injection of cash immediately though.

IIRC it's run on the Amazon server farm so they're not paying for servers, just for computing capacity.

From a business point of view, why didn't they put prices up a bit (~3% per year) during the boom period at the start of the pandemic, rather than this crazy hike when the boom ship has long sailed off into the sunset?

My better half randomly bought me a small Zwift voucher at Xmas, still not used it and she only realised afterwards it couldn't be used for subscription. The Zwift store prices are crazy, I've been half thinking about the Play controllers for a while, but there seemed to be a constant flow of issues posted on their forum. And with this subs hike, I'm currently very hesitant about buying them, as they so far would be useless on another turbo platform... Leaving alternatives that aren't too appealing! 😆

https://uk.zwift.com/collections/all/?sort_by=price-ascending

The Controllers are still a "beta" product too. Given the number of issues with them I'd expect some changes before they finalise them, but Zwift have already had their fingers burnt in hardware so I also wouldn't be too surprised to see them dropped, maybe taken on by Wahoo given how the two companies are now cooperating.

Could there be a funny sort of threshold for Zwift where if they reduce the number of users enough (and remaining users pay the increased fees) they can run fewer servers or something and sort of break even?

That's probably not how it works. I'd be surprised if they didn't scale on demand. The ideal for them is probably lots of subscribers but lower, or more evenly spread, levels of active riders.

I’ve been half thinking about the Play controllers for a while, but there seemed to be a constant flow of issues posted on their forum.

IIRC it’s run on the Amazon server farm so they’re not paying for servers, just for computing capacity.

My better half randomly bought me a small Zwift voucher at Xmas, still not used it and she only realised afterwards it couldn’t be used for subscription.

That just seems bonkers!

Could there be a funny sort of threshold for Zwift where if they reduce the number of users enough (and remaining users pay the increased fees) they can run fewer servers or something

I doubt it, Zwifts operation seems to put all the demands on the hosts CPU, I presume that means it runs on a much smaller server at their end.

And if it did, then they'd just move to a cloud server provider like AWS that scales on demand (and would cost a lot less than the subscription price per user).

And ...... if anything this will be removing the casual users that just use it for unstructured training once or twice a week and barely worry their server hamsters. Not the racers who turn up every day, 1000's at once.

 But having just added a gravel bike to the collection there’s every possibility that I’ll just ride that instead.

I say something like that every year 😂

This year I have a track bike so will be riding at the velodrome all winter, honest.  Variety is the spice of life though.  This winter was just too wet for any riding.  Even the roads in the Chilterns are f***** as the underground streams in the chalk have overflowed and washed road surfaces away.  Stonor Valley is traffic lighted, Dolesden lane has "failed road surface" signs, and the same stream resurfaces further down in Hambleden valley and has taken the road with it.  Nothing will be done until the summer as they can't work on them whilst the streams are still flowing.

Every spring since '18, when I begin cycling to the South Downs lanes again after the turbo winter, I get increasingly convinced that my next bike should be a gravel/adventure bike that could take up to ~50mm tyres (even though part of me would like a racy road bike to replace my very upright 388/610mm reach/stack Cube Attain GTC)...

Besides the relatively butter-smooth tarmac on Longwood Dean north-west of Upham, that has been resurfaced at least twice over the past eight years (does someone "important" live there?), so many other popular lanes west of South Harting are turning into pothole obstacle courses!

I get increasingly convinced that my next bike should be a gravel/adventure bike that could take up to ~50mm tyres

After my previous post, I remembered about One Lap installed on my mobile, that I've not launched for a good while but had a big update a few days ago. Started ok, maybe ~20 routes with free ride and workout options, pricing suggests it's $4.99pcm

AFAIK most (all?) of the processing (drafts, etc) is done client side!

Zwifts operation seems to put all the demands on the hosts CPU

Ah, that explains why my laptop has such a tantrum if I accidentally leave Zwift on in the background after a session.

I get the logic behind wanting people to go from month on month to pay for a year, gyms have the same issue, its better to have someone secured for the year rather then a PAYG. But, by god have they badly thought this through and coupled it to a price hike at the worst time.

MyWoosh not running on my Apple TV, looks like I need the 4K version

Can you not run on mobile and screenshare?

Could there be a funny sort of threshold for Zwift where if they reduce the number of users enough (and remaining users pay the increased fees) they can run fewer servers or something and sort of break even?

It is probably running on virtual servers on the Amazon cloud, these cost trivial amounts compared to the number of riders each one can support. Probably something like $100 a month for a server that can support several hundred riders at a time.

AFAIK most (all?) of the processing (drafts, etc) is done client side!

Yes, it has to be this way I think. The system is designed to handle significant latency - you see riders from all over the world in races - so you have to race what you see, but that's not necessarily the same as what other people see at any given instant.  If you have someone in Australia on your wheel, and you sprint to drop them, they will still get your draft a second or so after you think they've gone during which time the version of your avatar on their screen is still in front of them.  However, there's enough lag in the response of your trainer to your power input that this isn't really noticeable, so it's quite clever. The only time it falls down is during a close sprint for the line - sometimes you think you've got someone but you were racing your version of their avatar, and their last second sprint may not have registered on your display. But the messages about where each rider was on the course are probably timestamped so the central server has a fixed record of who was where on the course at any time, which means that the true version of the race is living on Zwift servers and no-one is actually seeing it real time.

The system is designed to handle significant latency – you see riders from all over the world in races – so you have to race what you see, but that’s not necessarily the same as what other people see at any given instant.  If you have someone in Australia on your wheel, and you sprint to drop them, they will still get your draft a second or so after you think they’ve gone during which time the version of your avatar on their screen is still in front of them.  However, there’s enough lag in the response of your trainer to your power input that this isn’t really noticeable, so it’s quite clever. The only time it falls down is during a close sprint for the line – sometimes you think you’ve got someone but you were racing your version of their avatar, and their last second sprint may not have registered on your display. But the messages about where each rider was on the course are probably timestamped so the central server has a fixed record of who was where on the course at any time, which means that the true version of the race is living on Zwift servers and no-one is actually seeing it real time.

This has blown my mind 😟

which means that the true version of the race is living on Zwift servers and no-one is actually seeing it real time.

So if you can minimise latency and/or find a Trainer with minimal latency (at least in terms of measuring those precious watts) do you get an "advantage"?
Is plugging an ethernet cable in essentially a Zwift PED?

Well there's lag between when you stamp on the pedals and when your own avatar moves, which on my cheap trainer is quite noticeable - maybe a second.   Then the message that your power has increased is then sent to Zwift, who then distribute it to all the others in your race.  That lag is likely to be less than half a second, most likely, even for long distances.

The trainer lag is the critical one when it comes to the absolute race timing so yes, if you have a better trainer that responds quicker you'll get a slight advantage. The murky bit is when you want to respond to other people's attacks.  When you are racing Bruce from Australia, by the time you see his avatar stand up and sprint, he's actually already gone half a second ago, and your trainer then needs half a second to respond.  In my experience this makes it almost impossible to properly follow a sprint for the line. So your best option is probably to just decide beforehand when you're going to go.  There's a 50/50 chance you'll be the one getting the first mover advantage.

I can follow breaks during races, but it takes a really big sprint since you have to close the inevitable gap that opens up and invariably end up knackered.  So I think if you are going to launch an attack mid-race the same applies, you should do it early and not wait to respond to others.

Is plugging an ethernet cable in essentially a Zwift PED?

Yes, but not a very strong one.  I looked at this for streaming video games. I had a ping of about 12ms, I upgraded to WiFi 6 which brought it down to 10, then I went with wired ethernet which lowered it down to 8ms.  I suspect the lag in the rest of the system is a lot more than that.

which means that the true version of the race is living on Zwift servers and no-one is actually seeing it real time.

I have literally never thought about how Zwift works, and now I feel smarts growing in my brain. Cheers Mol.

This is all conjecture mind, having raced a lot and knowing a bit about how it would have to work.  I've been beaten when I was sure my avatar was ahead of a rival at the sprint, and vice-versa, so I suspect this is how it works.

You only need to ride beside a mate while chatting in real time to discover that what you see on the screen isn't always what the Zwift server sees. We've noticed that, even just riding along, our relative placing  isn't consistent.