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Possible demise of CRC / Wiggle

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Administration is not the same as liquidation. They will be trying to sell the business or find new backers as a going concern, rather than conceding defeat, shuttering it and just liquidating all the assets.

So it will be business as usual until they have exhausted all possibilities to keep things going.

The administration thing is more of a problem to other businesses who haven't been paid and might have been trying legal routes to get their money, or to get the company wound up, as it stops those efforts in their tracks for now.


 
Posted : 19/10/2023 6:53 pm
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@solarider it was from a good source who I’d rather not name. I’m not one to just make stuff up.


 
Posted : 19/10/2023 7:15 pm
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I hope it continues to be business as usual, I ordered a bike off them yesterday evening!


 
Posted : 19/10/2023 7:19 pm
davros and davros reacted
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Whoops, I had to send something back for warranty yesterday. Probably never going to see that again 🤦‍♂️😆


 
Posted : 19/10/2023 7:36 pm
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hatter

I imagine the cost savings of moving everything to one massive warehouse that was located slap bang in the middle of the UK so better logistically.

Yeah, was probably the right thing to do, and then after Brexit, it's a huge advantage lost.


 
Posted : 19/10/2023 7:36 pm
edd, kelvin, kelvin and 1 people reacted
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I ordered something yesterday and just got a dispatch note today. I will order something from them again, but will just make sure it is on a CC. Companies have gone bust on me before and CC has always paid up. Any non-wiggle branded stuff will have a manufacturer warranty valid whatever their circumstances.


 
Posted : 19/10/2023 7:49 pm
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That current 30 day vitus trial thing could work out great for some if they go bust shortly. Nowhere to send bike back to.


 
Posted : 19/10/2023 8:01 pm
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Surely you have to pay up front?


 
Posted : 19/10/2023 8:10 pm
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They're private equity funded aint they,

So hugely exposed with a loan? Thats what happens isn't it?


 
Posted : 19/10/2023 8:13 pm
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Surely you have to pay up front?

And even if you don't, don't expect the administrator to just shrug the debt off


 
Posted : 19/10/2023 8:18 pm
 mboy
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That current 30 day vitus trial thing could work out great for some if they go bust shortly. Nowhere to send bike back to.

It was the first deal of its type I’d heard of in almost 3 decades of purchasing stuff online or mail order… There are cynical people out there that might suggest they were never going to be able to honour the deal!

Fingers crossed for all involved. Can’t be easy times for anyone who is potentially losing their job, their livelihood etc. possibly if they do go to the wall…


 
Posted : 19/10/2023 8:45 pm
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Sad news. Hopefully the good bits will remain after the inevitable. Nukeproof were really on a roll recently.

Hate to think what they will do to sponsored/ supported athletes. Hard times


 
Posted : 19/10/2023 8:58 pm
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Well that happened quicker than expected.

nukeproof was on a roll, not surprisingly with the huge marketing spend and giving the stuff away at taiwan manufacturing cost🤣 whoda thought

while I’m glad to see VC funds get utterly shafted after their greed powered forecasts blew up in their faces. There are real people who have been harmed by this who I’m sad for. The staff, the supply chain around them but most grimly their suppliers who are going to get utterly screwed. I think this is going to kill off several distributors as a knock on effect.

we will only know when the administration report is published but I remember Evans taking down I think £70 million in debts to suppliers who won’t see a penny for it. That destroys other businesses….

I’ll say again, there won’t be a liquidation sale. It will get piled on pallets and shifted in bulk via auction. Will end up all over Europe.

grim times ahead but on the other hand good news for real businesses struggling against funny money VC funded greed zombies

Neil SuperstarComponents


 
Posted : 19/10/2023 9:14 pm
benpinnick, AD, fruitbat and 11 people reacted
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That current 30 day vitus trial thing could work out great for some if they go bust shortly. Nowhere to send bike back to.

It was the first deal of its type I’d heard of in almost 3 decades of purchasing stuff online or mail order… There are cynical people out there that might suggest they were never going to be able to honour the deal!

It's not a free bike, it's just a 30 day no-quibble refund.

And not unheard of, Cotic for one example have almost exactly the same offer.


 
Posted : 19/10/2023 9:35 pm
kelvin and kelvin reacted
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I remember Evans taking down I think £70 million in debts to suppliers who won’t see a penny for it.

OT but not what I remember, I was there at the time.


 
Posted : 19/10/2023 9:58 pm
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Bikester(same group) website states we can't process returns for the moment


 
Posted : 19/10/2023 10:10 pm
kelvin and kelvin reacted
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Bikester(same group) website states we can’t process returns for the moment

Unfortunately I have some handlebars currently on the way back to wiggle. Fortunately 'only' £50 and part of larger order I paid for on CC but still potential unnecessary faff. Sorry for all those that may lose more or their jobs.


 
Posted : 19/10/2023 10:21 pm
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Road cc reporting rumours of a Mike Ashley buyout (strip out let’s face it)


 
Posted : 19/10/2023 10:26 pm
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hmmm - just remembered I bought my Ragley trig on 12 months paypal interest free finance. I wonder if it will continue as is, a demand for the outstanding or a right off.

Road cc reporting rumours of a Mike Ashley buyout (strip out let’s face it)

Which would really suck for all I'd imagine.


 
Posted : 19/10/2023 10:30 pm
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hmmm – just remembered I bought my Ragley trig on 12 months paypal interest free finance. I wonder if it will continue as is, a demand for the outstanding or a right off.

CRC will have got the money the next day. Afraid you will have to pay it! It works like a credit card so it's very hands off for the shop.


 
Posted : 19/10/2023 10:32 pm
convert, kelvin, kelvin and 1 people reacted
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And not unheard of, Cotic for one example have almost exactly the same offer.

Privateer offer 60 days. I'd guess the number of people willing to fork on thousands of pounds to take the piss on the offer is very low.


 
Posted : 19/10/2023 10:42 pm
zerocool, kelvin, zerocool and 1 people reacted
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Just a quick Google suggests also Trek, Ribble, Tifossi, and Rutland cycles offer it on the whole range.


 
Posted : 19/10/2023 10:51 pm
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Jameso. Just checked the Evans administration files. It was £87 million. They payed out £8 million to preferred creditors ie their bank

they changed the company name to make it harder to find…..

F. W. E. REALISATIONS LIMITED

Company number <strong style="font-family: inherit; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit;">02784079

Specialised and trek were taken for around 3 million each. Look at the public documents online for the full list

the crc documentation is going to make interesting reading

Neil SuperstarComponents


 
Posted : 19/10/2023 10:57 pm
convert, Pauly, convert and 1 people reacted
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Do those documents say how much SD paid those creditors once they took on Evans? RE the 'not a penny' bit of your post.


 
Posted : 19/10/2023 11:04 pm
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Do those documents say how much SD paid those creditors once they took on Evans? RE the ‘not a penny’ bit of your post.

Are you saying it was a penny? 😉

SD will have paid the bare minimum in good will to keep the suppliers on board but I would be very surprised if that was close to zero.

The thing is, depending on how the business was structured it could very easily have cost the folks owning Evans very little indeed allowing them to walk away and do the same again with little more than a shrug.

Regardless though. The ripples from this will actually be pretty big waves and run a long way.


 
Posted : 19/10/2023 11:15 pm
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I've bought loads from CRC / Wiggle over the years. More recently I've not bought much but that's been a general trend from me to not buy lots of stuff I don't need. I've not really moved to other retailers.

In the last year I've bought a cheap trisuit and other bits of tri gear, bib shorts and tops etc. The dhb stuff is really good value IMO.

I for one will really miss these companies if they go under.


 
Posted : 20/10/2023 12:01 am
zerocool and zerocool reacted
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The thing is, depending on how the business was structured it could very easily have cost the folks owning Evans very little indeed allowing them to walk away and do the same again with little more than a shrug.

This is true. Business and tax law seems an ass to me.


 
Posted : 20/10/2023 7:00 am
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They payed £8million. That’s where the small amount of debts paid off came from. It’s all listed in the documents on companies house 

SD didn’t do anything wrong, they bid what they were willing to offer and the best offer wins. It’s not their debt but the failed companies. The suppliers who offered credit terms are who got shafted

now the bit which annoys me is these big companies demand credit terms not ask. So their suppliers are effectively bankrolling the retailers with their own money. Often it’s bully boy tactics. See several of the big bike makers retrospectively demanding longer credit terms ie Giant a few months back. 

I wonder how much tax is due which our government services won’t see…. 

we will find out in the end

Neil SuperstarComponents 


 
Posted : 20/10/2023 7:33 am
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Started to see murmurings of Nukeproof dropping their athletes & closing its own international distribution arms.


 
Posted : 20/10/2023 8:29 am
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That'd be a terrible shame for the riders... some of them have done exceptionally well lately and with more and more companies throwing it all in, it'll be a lot harder for them to get rides for 2024.


 
Posted : 20/10/2023 8:31 am
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Yeah, athletes getting dropped already


 
Posted : 20/10/2023 8:48 am
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they changed the company name to make it harder to find…

Any evidence for this allegation of misconduct?


 
Posted : 20/10/2023 9:01 am
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Nukeproof USA basically no longer exists. All staff and contractors let go, and right now they don’t even know if they’re going to get paid. Several freelancers/contractors who have already completed work also not getting paid. Individuals are losing their livelihoods. It’s all very sad. And it’s some pretty dark reading once you get into the whole Signa holdings/Benko/real estate wormhole.

Fingers crossed for better news for the UK folks.


 
Posted : 20/10/2023 9:11 am
hightensionline, ChrisL, ChrisL and 1 people reacted
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Any evidence for this allegation of misconduct?

No misconduct, but it's common to change the holding companies name to something different to disassociate yourselves from the indebted business. Common sense really.

Nukeproof USA basically no longer exists. All staff and contractors let go, and right now they don’t even know if they’re going to get paid. Several freelancers/contractors who have already completed work also not getting paid. Individuals are losing their livelihoods. It’s all very sad.

TBH its pretty normal for the US, their labour market is a lot more fluid than ours, other than the unionized trades. Those people will have jobs again soon enough (I hope!). Maybe not in the bike industry though, that has a way to go before hiring is a thing again.


 
Posted : 20/10/2023 9:22 am
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So when are you going to get rid of the CRC strap on the top of the forum Hannah? I guess it pretty clear, they won't be paying out....

Shoot me, but the sponsored riders are not at the top of my list of folk I feel sorry for. It's the big stsndard employees of the Signs companies or their suppliers and the owners of the smaller supplier companies possible owed business closing amounts.


 
Posted : 20/10/2023 9:31 am
jameso and jameso reacted
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HobNob

Started to see murmurings of Nukeproof dropping their athletes & closing its own international distribution arms.

Ronan Dunne now lists himself as "Factory rider for" on Instagram, Nukeproof no longer mentioned


 
Posted : 20/10/2023 9:31 am
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And it’s some pretty dark reading once you get into the whole Signa holdings/Benko/real estate wormhole.

Any chances of getting an article on it?


 
Posted : 20/10/2023 9:36 am
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I've just received a CRC email for their latest offers, some items with a black Friday heading on, so are they still trading or what.


 
Posted : 20/10/2023 9:47 am
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I know it was mentioned earlier, but this must sting a bit for the STW crew. Hope they paid in advance.


 
Posted : 20/10/2023 9:47 am
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@soundninjauk probably not! I’m on holiday today! And it’s not bike stuff - it’s German real estate, banking rules, company restructuring and sales. For me it would be like taking on a whole research and learning project, and the chances of me then turning that into something accurate and non lawsuit inducing enough to publish…

You could start with the FT: https://www.ft.com/stream/26102ab4-b139-45e4-b413-7b3bc7a4ee5f


 
Posted : 20/10/2023 9:49 am
hightensionline, jameso, jameso and 1 people reacted
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so are they still trading or what

Yes. They're in (self administered however that works?!) administration so they can try to trade out of the hole in theory


 
Posted : 20/10/2023 9:50 am
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Ronan Dunne now lists himself as “Factory rider for” on Instagram, Nukeproof no longer mentioned

Gutted for him. Best ever(?) result one month, next month team goes pop.

Yes. They’re in (self administered however that works?!) administration so they can try to trade out of the hole in theory

Administration will still be handled by the appointed adminstrators AFAIK, it's the going in thats self-done. You can be forced/compelled, or choose to go into administration.

We should be clear though, once a company enters administration all bets are off for buying stuff until the administrator says so. It's entirely legal for them to take your money and not supply the goods in the interim period, or rather its entirely legal to do so if you they did otherwise intend to ship the goods at the time of taking the order (otherwise thats just good old fraud). Only once the administrator decides its in the best interest of the creditors to the business to continue trading (and declares as such) can you get any level of guarantee your order will be serviced. If you order something and it turns out that the administrator decides the following day not to continue trading and your order hasn't yet shipped, into the unsecured debtors list you go.


 
Posted : 20/10/2023 9:54 am
kelvin and kelvin reacted
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No misconduct, but it’s common to change the holding companies name to something different to disassociate yourselves from the indebted business. Common sense really.

Agreed and it's also common to free up the name as a condition of the sale (in this case the business name was sold as disclosed in the SIP16 statement appended to the Proposals at Companies House) as you cannot have two companies with the same name at the same time registered at Companies House. 

That particular format is particularly common for insolvency transactions because it's non contentious, consistent across a large part of the industry and unlikely to be blocked at Companies House on a change of name registration. 

[Company number] Limited is another.  

Important to highlight that creditors (i.e. those who are owed money and have an economic interest in the outcome rather than "academic") will have been informed of this during the administration. There is no "hiding" going on.  There are specific rules for insolvency about disclosing former names in certain documents.  

Search for Evans Cycles on Companies House and it comes up with previous name and in administration in the first 10 company results.  


 
Posted : 20/10/2023 9:55 am
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I was not saying it was wrong to change name, just pointing out that it had happened and thus it was less easy for people who don’t know to find the publicly available information to inform themselves.

there’s alot of people saying things like “it’s a sound business” with literally nothing to back it up. I just base my opinions on the public facts. Don’t believe the marketing hype. As buffet says Only when the tide goes out do you learn who has been swimming naked

unfortunately accounts are always out of date by 12-24 months on reality.

Neil SuperstarComponents


 
Posted : 20/10/2023 10:07 am
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