Possible demise of CRC / Wiggle

Wouldn't order from them right now that's for sure, lots of chat about announcements today/tomorrow...

Twitter/X rumours of a major UK bike brand filing for insolvency this morning.

For those of us who don't Twit/X, who is saying this?

Random people who heard a rumour or people who might have first or at least secondhand knowledge?

For those of us who don’t Twit/X, who is saying this?
Random people who heard a rumour or people who might have first or at least secondhand knowledge?

Probably musk, right before he offers to buy it

Twitter/X rumours of a major UK bike brand filing for insolvency this morning. With the £150million credit withdrawal earlier this week I’d not be surprised if it was Wiggle/CRC.

Wouldn't need to be able to see the future to have worked it out - they literally said this would likely happen in the PR.

After many years of mutually trusted collaboration and reliable financing between the Company and SIGNA Holding,

I've got a few Wiggle orders that I wanted to return: total value over the 4 orders is about £800.

Should I risk sending them back? I'd hate for them to go belly-up after I've posted the items and before I get my money back!

I'd hold onto them for the time being, you can always sell them on and get more money back than you would as a nobody in the queue to the administrators.

Definitely don't send anything this week, i'm in the trade and we certainly aren't sending anything at the moment.

Very strong rumors that there will be something announced today/tomorrow.

I’ve got a few Wiggle orders that I wanted to return: total value over the 4 orders is about £800.

Begs the question of how it why but, that aside...

If I were you no, not yet. I'd hang on until this time next week at least.

The withdrawal of the equity agreement will mean some major restructuring at the least. That could mean anything eg. Bikester goes but the rest the group is floated off the back of that though to the whole group isn't there by Monday.

If you don't return the stuff you can at least sell it. If you return it and they go pop you may never see it or the money again.

(FWIW suspect their stupidly generous returns policy and warranty liability won't have helped here)

And to think, I queried an issue yesterday, and the spare part to rectify said issue was sent out to me same day, CRC customer service can be very good. Would be sad to see them go, especially as I have a warranty interest…. 

Ordered forks and tyres yesterday, arrived this morning. That's the last order I'll make until things are a bit clearer!

Looks like my 'your order has been despatched' email which came through this morning could have been good timing then!

Hmm they've just got the E-Mythique in stock in a couple of the models, weren't yesterday....must resist

I’ll be sad if it goes. I’ve used them lots over the years, great shipping and returns policy for sizing and choosing kit over the years of three growing children.  Never had any issues with customer service.<br /><br />

Seems like another victim of a false and hyped market during the pandemic, and now reality bites. 

Im going to guess that any purchases made now, with CC or PayPal, would be protected anyway? 

Hmm they’ve just got the E-Mythique in stock in a couple of the models, weren’t yesterday….must resist

I wish I hadn't read this comment. Now I MUST RESIST TOO!

Im going to guess that any purchases made now, with CC or PayPal, would be protected anyway?

Assuming you tick the relevant boxes in terms of item costs etc yes.

Seems like another victim of a false and hyped market during the pandemic, and now reality bites.

IMHO (and it really is opinion only) whilst the pandemic won't have helped it's likely what tipped everything not the main cause. The main problem is people won't pay for stuff*.

There's a constant race to be cheapest, margins are squeezed to razor thin because if Google says you're 2p more expensive than the next shop you don't get the order. That needs huge turnover to keep it viable.

The pandemic meant supplies were very difficult to maintain which meant maintaining that turnover was very difficult. Post pandemic the supplies have started to recover, in some instances meaning huge glutts of stock but, if your business relies on having tens of thousands of items to sell at cost +1% that's not terrible so long as there's a market...

...But, everyone is suddenly tightening their belts, discretionary spend has tanked and the market for moderately expensive toys with it.
Now they're left with huge overstock and no market to sell it to with and a history of tiny margins on huge turnover meaning they have no buffer, need external liquidity which was fine when you could stick £150m in to pay suppliers knowing its coming back over the next x months. Now there's no visible prospect of repayment so that external liquidity is pulled and no buffer means the company can't service it's day to day bills without huge borrowing. Interest rates from the open market are higher than their margins will allow them to swallow and sales are tanking so even if they could afford to borrow, few people want to lend.

*that's a longer conversation and not really relevant to this thread.

@dangeourbrain

The main problem is people won’t pay for stuff*.

Mainly because Chiggle, in an effort to dominate the market and drive competitors out of business, were subsidising prices, and thus making them artificially low.

Mainly because Chiggle, in an effort to dominate the market and drive competitors out of business, were subsidising prices, and thus making them artificially low.

Nah, it's not just a "bike" problem and it's a lot older than chiggle but...

*that’s a longer conversation and not really relevant to this thread.

😉

CRC customer services have just been very helpful locating & sending the keys which were missing from my recent ebike purchase

Just ordered some pedals to go with it, hopefully they arrive as they're half the price of anywhere else

Wiggle/CRC entering self administration

Source? This comment might look very out of date very quickly but couldn’t see any news anywhere.

https://www.cyclingelectric.com/news/wiggle-crc-administration-signa-sports-united?fbclid=IwAR0Ef3KnYiCEyB56brAPdCP-MM_ZD5vCwISnNkt9QtGNsV-myw9KhbeUCQs

Mark Sutton is well connected, I'll be suprised if he's wrong.

Wow, it could really happen.

It's a well written article - I thought these points were interesting:

"A contributory factor to the loss of a competitive edge and thus profitability could be the moving of the business out of Northern Ireland where it would have enjoyed cut ties from the Brexit deal that effects a business based in England."

I hadn't immediately thought of the impact of CRC leaving NI.

And

"Needless to say, as the bike industry’s largest online platform, the ripple effects of any wind down of the business will touch just about every business in the supply chain, if not directly, then as a consequence of subsequent stock sells offs."

A shame

Why did they leave NI?

Did Royal Mail / other couriers offer them a discount to relocate to Birmingham?

I imagine the cost savings of moving everything to one massive warehouse that was located slap bang in the middle of the UK so better logistically.

If you’ve got returns, hang onto them as there’s a chance of them having some value whereas send the stuff back and you’ll be added to the growing list of unsecured creditors who may at some point in the future get something like a penny for every pound owed.
Lack of parent company guarantees probably means that many suppliers will now demand cash-up-front as the impending fire-sale will probably see a few losing their shirts.

Although they’ve announced self-liquidation I expect to see if they can find new backers, I doubt anyone in their right mind would want to pick up the tab for their debts when they can wait a while for the pending fire-sale of assets and stock.

If/when the bankruptcy sale starts, the market is going to be flooded with cheap stuff which makes life harder for other distributors and retailers as demand dries up and interest rates stay high.

Likewise, I won’t be placing any orders either as there’s a high probability they’ll take your money but the goods might not turn up.

Administration is not the same as liquidation. They will be trying to sell the business or find new backers as a going concern, rather than conceding defeat, shuttering it and just liquidating all the assets.

So it will be business as usual until they have exhausted all possibilities to keep things going.

The administration thing is more of a problem to other businesses who haven't been paid and might have been trying legal routes to get their money, or to get the company wound up, as it stops those efforts in their tracks for now.

@solarider it was from a good source who I’d rather not name. I’m not one to just make stuff up.

I hope it continues to be business as usual, I ordered a bike off them yesterday evening!

Whoops, I had to send something back for warranty yesterday. Probably never going to see that again 🤦‍♂️😆

hatter

I imagine the cost savings of moving everything to one massive warehouse that was located slap bang in the middle of the UK so better logistically.

Yeah, was probably the right thing to do, and then after Brexit, it's a huge advantage lost.

I ordered something yesterday and just got a dispatch note today. I will order something from them again, but will just make sure it is on a CC. Companies have gone bust on me before and CC has always paid up. Any non-wiggle branded stuff will have a manufacturer warranty valid whatever their circumstances.

That current 30 day vitus trial thing could work out great for some if they go bust shortly. Nowhere to send bike back to.

Surely you have to pay up front?

They're private equity funded aint they,

So hugely exposed with a loan? Thats what happens isn't it?

Latest:

https://Twitter.com/marksuttonbike/status/1715026923238146320?s=46&t=We7m9sBVLviPIp_wY7u5lQ

Surely you have to pay up front?

And even if you don't, don't expect the administrator to just shrug the debt off

That current 30 day vitus trial thing could work out great for some if they go bust shortly. Nowhere to send bike back to.

It was the first deal of its type I’d heard of in almost 3 decades of purchasing stuff online or mail order… There are cynical people out there that might suggest they were never going to be able to honour the deal!

Fingers crossed for all involved. Can’t be easy times for anyone who is potentially losing their job, their livelihood etc. possibly if they do go to the wall…

Sad news. Hopefully the good bits will remain after the inevitable. Nukeproof were really on a roll recently.

Hate to think what they will do to sponsored/ supported athletes. Hard times

Well that happened quicker than expected.

nukeproof was on a roll, not surprisingly with the huge marketing spend and giving the stuff away at taiwan manufacturing cost🤣 whoda thought

while I’m glad to see VC funds get utterly shafted after their greed powered forecasts blew up in their faces. There are real people who have been harmed by this who I’m sad for. The staff, the supply chain around them but most grimly their suppliers who are going to get utterly screwed. I think this is going to kill off several distributors as a knock on effect.

we will only know when the administration report is published but I remember Evans taking down I think £70 million in debts to suppliers who won’t see a penny for it. That destroys other businesses….

I’ll say again, there won’t be a liquidation sale. It will get piled on pallets and shifted in bulk via auction. Will end up all over Europe.

grim times ahead but on the other hand good news for real businesses struggling against funny money VC funded greed zombies

Neil SuperstarComponents

That current 30 day vitus trial thing could work out great for some if they go bust shortly. Nowhere to send bike back to.

It was the first deal of its type I’d heard of in almost 3 decades of purchasing stuff online or mail order… There are cynical people out there that might suggest they were never going to be able to honour the deal!

It's not a free bike, it's just a 30 day no-quibble refund.

And not unheard of, Cotic for one example have almost exactly the same offer.

I remember Evans taking down I think £70 million in debts to suppliers who won’t see a penny for it.

OT but not what I remember, I was there at the time.

Bikester(same group) website states we can't process returns for the moment

Bikester(same group) website states we can’t process returns for the moment

Unfortunately I have some handlebars currently on the way back to wiggle. Fortunately 'only' £50 and part of larger order I paid for on CC but still potential unnecessary faff. Sorry for all those that may lose more or their jobs.

Road cc reporting rumours of a Mike Ashley buyout (strip out let’s face it)

hmmm - just remembered I bought my Ragley trig on 12 months paypal interest free finance. I wonder if it will continue as is, a demand for the outstanding or a right off.

Road cc reporting rumours of a Mike Ashley buyout (strip out let’s face it)

Which would really suck for all I'd imagine.

hmmm – just remembered I bought my Ragley trig on 12 months paypal interest free finance. I wonder if it will continue as is, a demand for the outstanding or a right off.

CRC will have got the money the next day. Afraid you will have to pay it! It works like a credit card so it's very hands off for the shop.

And not unheard of, Cotic for one example have almost exactly the same offer.

Privateer offer 60 days. I'd guess the number of people willing to fork on thousands of pounds to take the piss on the offer is very low.

Just a quick Google suggests also Trek, Ribble, Tifossi, and Rutland cycles offer it on the whole range.

Jameso. Just checked the Evans administration files. It was £87 million. They payed out £8 million to preferred creditors ie their bank

they changed the company name to make it harder to find…..

F. W. E. REALISATIONS LIMITED

Company number <strong style="font-family: inherit; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit;">02784079

Specialised and trek were taken for around 3 million each. Look at the public documents online for the full list

the crc documentation is going to make interesting reading

Neil SuperstarComponents