Any info on what they might have actually found yet?
None that I’m aware of. My gut feeling is it will be something fairly new if indeed anything. Doping controls are far better than they used to be & doping at the Tour? I think you’d have to be very naive or very confident….
mrlebowski
None that I’m aware of. My gut feeling is it will be something fairly new if indeed anything. Doping controls are far better than they used to be & doping at the Tour? I think you’d have to be very naive or very confident
Doping control have improved, but you think doping hasn't? Who's being naive?
I’m bracing for another doping scandal 🙁
If they are juiced what does it say about everyone else !!
Doping control have improved, but you think doping hasn’t? Who’s being naive?
The inference that doping had improved is here:
I think you’d have to be very naive or very confident….
Or was I too subtle?
Indeed.
Blowing other riders away too would quickly raise suspicion. These days it’s more subtle. For me with Pog it’s that the other 2 are so clearly on the limit – he just effortlessly kicks & rides away from them..
Oh & here.
I still think the dopers are ahead, however controls have improved. That’s quite clear. ABP has helped but is flawed:
https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/biological-passport-have-dopers-found-ways-to-beat-it/
I'm a bit bored with this 'ineos's tactics are shit' argument. It's also just dumb and wrong. If you only have one leader that is in any distance of GC contention, you cannot effectively gut another GC leader unless your own GC leader is heads above fitter, or the terrain and weather allows your team effort to do (crosswinds).
You have to force him to chase attacks whilst your leader rests. The only reason pog would chase an attack is if the attacker could threaten his gc. All of ineos's GC riders save caparaz crashed and lost so much time that they aren't convincing. If G goes up the road, pogacar doesn't give a crap. They didn't crash because of shit tactics, and they can't get back on.
All ineos (or any other team) can do without multiple people in the top ten is to press hard on the front to shell competitors for the podium who have better it's than carapaz or give up and try and take stage wins (exactly what they did to Uran). They want a podium over this. Their strategy is correct.
To dope these days you need the local anti doping authorities to be complicit, either by being able to buy them off or from "National Pride". Russia, Jamaica, Ethiopia spring to mind but are the Slovenia's doing similar ?
All ineos (or any other team) can do without multiple people in the top ten is to press hard on the front to shell competitors for the podium who have better it’s than carapaz or give up and try and take stage wins (exactly what they did to Uran). They want a podium over this. Their strategy is correct.
I agree. Carapaz has been battling to get on the podium.
Having watched a Slovenian, Mohoric, just power away from the field for a second time, timetrialling in the smallest cog, Pogacar just dances up the hills, and Roglic hid away from open competition in the run up to TdF, the very cynical would how one nation is all very strong in the run up to an Olympics as opposed to perhaps a single team?
Slovenia (population just>2m and slightly bigger than Northern Ireland) have done very well.
primoz after too many white lines
To dope these days you need the local anti doping authorities to be complicit, either by being able to buy them off or from “National Pride”. Russia, Jamaica, Ethiopia spring to mind but are the Slovenia’s doing similar ?
Icarus on Netflix gives an insight as to how that can happen IIRC - wasn’t a Russian anti-doping lab complicit?
Icarus on Netflix gives an insight as to how that can happen IIRC – wasn’t a Russian anti-doping lab complicit?
It's been well-known in the past that a lot of testers, faced with the prospect of testing a superstar athlete, will be so starstruck that they'll be a bit lax with procedures or allow the athlete some privacy to pee (the tester is supposed to watch the actual peeing into the bottle - the athlete has to be naked from chest to knee to ensure that there aren't any hidden syringes of urine).
Doesn't help that there are very few testers (even fewer female ones) so while there is supposed to be some degree of anonymity, in general it's the same tester turning up at the door each time so familiarity blunts the procedures as well. Instead of reading out the prepared script (and there is a script that has to be read out, word for word each time), the tester will simply be like "hey [athlete], sorry to bother you again" and the athlete will be like "oh hi John/Jane, how's things?"
I did anti-doping notification at the London Olympics (find the athlete, read them the prepared statement, stay with them until they came with you to the testing room). We were quite routinely monitored as well, there were people checking we were reading the statement properly and recording everything that happened. Things like getting a selfie or an autograph were absolutely forbidden - one person who'd signed up for anti-doping got binned off early in training because she was so excited at meeting all her heroes.
Most athletes were fine - they know the penalty for not complying - but some pushed it to the limit claiming not to speak English, waiting until the last possible moment, going through an elaborate warm-down routine and so on.
He's on the juice for sure!Having said that my wife insists I'm such a cynic that I don't believe I've taken a shit unless I weigh myself before and after.
To dope these days you need the local anti doping authorities to be complicit,
Not at all. Yo just need to be one step ahead of them and / or be clever
Went to a very interesting regulatory meeting a couple of years ago (I work in horse sport) where a presentation was given about biological passports (in people) and how they could be open to manipulation (metabolic creep with micro-dosing) and they are limited in what they measure being mainly based upon historic abuses (raising red cell mass etc). Testing has to be validated and defensible legally so will always lag behind, especially as understanding of endurance metabolism and routes to enhance it evolve.
So are there any clean sports or are all athletes at it?
Did anyone see that thing about Pogacar WRT Metabolomics? That was quite interesting. They inferred that his cells were genetically predisposed to efficiently produce energy during endurance events. Efficient conversions and rapid recovery even during use. His wheel hugging might be giving him more of a boost than it would to others…
inferred that his cells were genetically predisposed to efficiently produce energy
Could be smoke & mirrors- a conventional explanation to hide the truth, like Indurain had larger than average lungs.
I did see that "sciencey" bit and was left feeling a little bit like they were trying too hard. Maybe using a blind-with-science approach? I might be being totally unfair, but in my job I get quite a few people peddling stuff using big fancy words with little substance, so always have a skeptical view.
Humans are evolving, just look at the size of teenagers now a days, they’re bigger and stronger than the same lads 30 years ago
In truth, that's not evolution, it's epigenetic - diet, exercise and perhaps earlier identification of talent. Be under no illusions, if something is LEGAL, then every team will be trying to max out on it, ketones for example. But equally, you don't get to be in the pro peloton without decent genes. I'd be more wary regarding domestic cycling, Colombia is a good example.
As for testing, let's just say that some of these guys are tested multiple times a day in competition, and frequently out. the real debate should be what is detectable and under what circumstances and why. You may recall that a certain Mr Froome owes me a GT for this information 😉
As for youth and endurance, recovery time goes up with age, but so does just plain dogged determination. What if you develop that determination at 19?
Strangely Froome to me is less of a red flag
come the **** on now
In truth, that’s not evolution, it’s epigenetic – diet, exercise and perhaps earlier identification of talent.
The dutch are now the tallest nation on earth. Given their genetic similarity ( on average) to the germans and the british the suspicion is that its to do with high dairy intake and hormones in that milk. Not proven tho
the general increase in height may be partly genetics / evolution ( taller people have an advantage in the "finding a mate and breeding" lottery) but its also clearly in large part due to better diet.
I am the same height as my father but he clearly did not grow to his full potential in height ( his hands and feet are bigger, shoulders wider). But he grew up in a time and place when good food was scarce - i am sure if he grew up under the same conditions I did he would be a good few inches taller
https://www.cyclingnews.com/amp/news/mechanical-doping-claims-resurface-at-tour-de-france/
All very much rumours and supposition and guesswork...
Christ what a non story !!
The dutch are now the tallest nation on earth
I just read up on this, and the were one of the smallest in the 1880's...fascinating stuff. Apparently in Holland, the most fertile couples are tall men and tall women, but in the USA the most fertile are average sized men and less and averaged sized women...which again is fascinating, I had no idea folk were measuring heights and fertility
obviously less gravity in the Netherlands
All very much rumours and supposition and guesswork…
Interesting that the nearest to a rational explanation was different styles of chain lubes e.g. newer ceramic waxes etc.
Also, what would kinetic regen tech look like in a (non-obvious) rear wheel? Methinks some people have been playing too much Zwift... 🙄
*If* you had a motor fitted, it would make sense to be able to use it in reverse (thermodynamically speaking) to recharge the battery, then you could have a full battery at the bottom of each climb with a small battery.
could the noise be from a tiny bit of disc / pad touching?
Interesting that it's 4 teams. You can imagine a load of angry calls to dubious equipment supplier "you promised this would give my team an advantage, but you sold the tech to 3 others as well"
All very much rumours and supposition and guesswork…
And DT hubs. Had the same with people looking at my back wheel with giant pslr wheels. All sorts of experimental kit is used by teams.
Brake disc induction motor with a remote from the DS in the car is my bet. Just needs a battery and eddy currents. A battery you say? Hmmm how many bikes in the peloton are rocking batteries? Anyone NEED bigger batteries because they errrr change gear a lot. Wired for brake disk temp sensors? 😉
With wireless gear changes, what's stopping a signal being sent to a rival's gearset? Just about to hit a climb- you're somehow in the highest gear? About to sprint and you're spinning like mad in the granny ring?
With wireless gear changes, what’s stopping a signal being sent to a rival’s gearset? Just about to hit a climb- you’re somehow in the highest gear? About to sprint and you’re spinning like mad in the granny ring?
That got brought up and then rapidly debunked more or less the moment SRAM announced their first wireless system!
So.....
We have cyclocross riders winning:
Grand tour sprint stages
Grand tour mountain stages
Grand tour time trial stages
One day road classic races
And now Olympic mountain bike races
I need to do whatever they're all doing.... I wonder if they sell it in Boots 🤔
I need to do whatever they’re all doing
Train 5* more and 20* better?
I'd like to see Pogacar himself properly tested. Who's to say that he's not some sort of revolutionary, bio-engineered android? My theory is that Roglic was the initial prototype first tested in ski jumping then moved across to cycling. Pog is the mark 2 version, though still needs development in terms of charisma. It'll be interesting to see how he ages.
Funny how they x-ray the bikes at the end of stages, but not the riders. Anyone else find this suspicious. Or am I just being paranormal?
Train 5* more and 20* better?
Yep that's what the drugs allow you to do.
This is the legacy of drug cheating. Or indeed any kind of cheating.
There can never be a David vs Goliath dream story involving ****stan and a lesser nation at the cricket World Cup again without it coming under question.
There can never be a truly exceptional performance without questions being raised.
This is the toxic legacy of all previous cheating and it can never be undone.
This is the toxic legacy of all previous cheating and it can never be undone.
Apparently the Texan know it all has been casting some pretty toxic aspirations. But…
It is also arguable that the very public way in which disgraced former pro- cyclist Lance Armstrong brought disgrace onto the pro cycling ranks generally has also created an environment in which doping is very, very difficult - for cyclists.
Today cycling probably faces far bigger issues with regards to weight and health.
Especially in the "micro-dosing" era, one injection or one course of drugs isn't going to make bugger all difference, it allows the user to train a little bit harder and longer, and recover faster than the non doping athlete, but it is the cumulative effect of doing that over a longer period of time that really makes an impact.
However the important part of that is the PED users actually work harder, work longer and more frequently than those who don't use because the drugs allow them to go beyond the natural human limits.
Everyone involved in cycling knows this full well, and the pretense of naivety is completely transparent. So when athletes like Pogacar come out with the classic misdirection statements like "I don't take shortcuts" or "I don't take the easy option" and it goes completely unchallenged or explained by the wider cycling bubble and media, then it is quite clear that the omerta is still strong.
IMO while the drug agencies are probably doing what they can to catch the cheats, the cycling authorities are only playing lip service to catching the cheats, and the peloton only cares about being caught and couldn't give a flying **** about cheating.
It's in the Star so must be true ☺️
However.....
So if cheating or bending of the rules concerning TUE' is common in cycling, what about other sports where there is a lot more money sloshing about?
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/arsenal-footballers-banned-drugs-onana-24232146
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/eleven-star-footballers-allowed-play-18788338
Strangely I can't find much info on TUE within top flight football, wonder why? 🙄
I think there can be no doubt that rich team sport are absolutely steamrollering the rules.
...and the peloton only cares about being caught and couldn’t give a flying **** about cheating.
All of them?
