[Closed] Our forefathers, were they nails?

I always find that sort of talk a bit 'Four Yorkshiremen'.

The average riders probably don't have very interesting stories to tell, so like any tales from history, you only get to hear the legendary ones, and as with most old stories there's also generally a hearty dose of exaggeration, so you end up with a pretty skewed outlook.

Both my grandfathers were fairly serious cyclists but were unremarkable enough at it that there's no reason for me (or them, when they were alive) to harp on about how monstrously awesome they were.

If there any differences between then and now, it's probably that people didn't expect to live 30 years into a comfortable retirement before suffering any sort of joint issues like we do today, so had no self preserving qualms about hammering their cartilage into a useless gritty paste like we do today.

That said, working down't pit twelve days a week toughens you up a fair bit more than a career in IT.

Distances covered back then were often higher (riding miles out to races and back again, etc) but average speeds for non-racing were lower. Club runs would often be out all day, 8hrs or so, to cover those 100 miles. Whereas now a decent group going less than flat-out would be covering that in 5-6 depending on terrain.

[img] http://www.tumblr.com/photo/1280/14171438979/1/tumblr_llv0ea5KS51qc67l3 [/img]

Maybe peoples attention spans are lower now? Riding for 8 hours is boring.

In the 1930s my uncle rode for Charlotteville CC. I have the 12hour cup for 1937 in front of me now. 216 miles on a fixed.

Best part is that he had to retire from the 1936 with toothache. Next day he went to a dentist and has ALL HIS TEETH PULLED OUT so that it wouldn't happen again.

Uncle Jim was hard as...

people were tougher in every sense of the word.
most men worked in tough manual labour based jobs, people walked or cycled to work.
food was grown a lot of the time, in the garden. nearly every job from work to home chores was tougher and harder to do.

how many people do you know who's job involves proper hard graft.
no many nowadays.

Uncle Jim sounds brilliant

That's dedication that is.

Audi A4 Nein Danke
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Think I've still got a pair of wheel carriers lurking in the shed somewhere. Haven't used them for a few decades though !

Ton sums it up.

jackthedog and ton are more or less covering it here I think. On top of that there are probably all sorts of other factors, for instance there probably weren't as many other fun things to do competing for their time as there are now. People probably didn't spend as much time commuting to work, and maybe the missus did most of the stuff that husbands spend some of their time doing now. Maybe children's leisure pursuits weren't so much of a priority as now, so Dad could bugger off on his bike all day rather than taking them to footy or whatever. In this respect more car ownership probably has a big indirect impact too as it opens up lots of things that take a lot of time.

Long story short- lots things are different to back then even if people aren't. Most of the above is probably way off too!

how many people do you know who's job involves proper hard graft.

Dead right. We had a builder round for a few days recently. Trying to keep up with him absolutely exhausted me.

Ton is dead right, I reckon I work fairly hard (construction) but it's nothing compared to what it would have been like down the pit, or laying railways or whatever.

On the rare occasion I spend a couple of days manually digging footings, I spend a week feeling like I've been run over by a stampede.

Are we lazier?

is it because we choose to do less, but do it faster

do we work longer?

has modern technology freed us or enslaved us?

are we no better than track suited JJB enthusiasts and kid ourselves that if we look like we're doing something...we are?

was it better in the old days.......of course.... 😀

For the most part we live easy sedatory lifestyles these days. A little hardship is good for the mind, body, and soul.

Yes. Absolutely hard as nails. You can see that when you ride with some of the 60 and 70 yr old audaxers who think nothing of riding 200 milers.

I've just finished reading a book about a Sheffield guy from turn of last century who regularly rode his penny farthing out to Lincoln and did llandudno (sp?) to Sheffield in a day.

there is a nice mini article in this issue of sixer for those of us in S6

In the 1930's my grandfather used to cycle from Barnstaple to Exeter (40 miles ish) looking for work, my father-in-law used to cycle to work on the Monday (20 miles or so) carrying a ladder and his carpentry tools, sleep in a barn during the week and cycle home on Friday. All done on heavy steel framed single speed bikes.

Some of the first 6 day races where brutal. For example *in 1897 Charlie Miller rode 2093 miles in a six at Madison Square Garden. In the whole 6 days he only stopped for 10 hours. Amazing.
The 2011 tour de france was 2130 miles covered in 21 stages. Soft gets.

*nicked from Robert Penn - It's all about the bike. Good book with lots of other historical titbits.

when my grandparents (late 70's now) were teenagers used to ride 30 miles for a day out at the beach, mess about at the beach, then ride back.

most teenagers wouldn't dream of doing that, some cyclists think of 60 miles on the road as a big day out.

my grandparents were at all sporty or outdoorsy - this was normal.

Im shamed by the lack of younger people now riding bikes, every wednesday there is a seniors ride from the Eureka cafe, and the blokes all look about 75 and older, and some look really fit for their age.

Thing is the younger generation turn up in cars at a trail centre, ride a bit and drive home, why not ride to a ride.

thomthumb - Member
when my grandparents (late 70's now) were teenagers used to ride 30 miles for a day out at the beach, mess about at the beach, then ride back.

most teenagers wouldn't dream of doing that, some cyclists think of 60 miles on the road as a big day out.

my grandparents were at all sporty or outdoorsy - this was normal.

+1

That and the mud of flanders etc

when my grandparents (late 70's now) were teenagers used to ride 30 miles for a day out at the beach, mess about at the beach, then ride back.

most teenagers wouldn't dream of doing that

Thing is the younger generation turn up in cars at a trail centre, ride a bit and drive home, why not ride to a ride.

Few years back (about 20 years) i was tols of a block that rode form home 25 miles to the start of a 50mile TT. Rode the TT then rode 25 miles home.

On a more personal note, back in 1964 my mother set 3 club records for 50, 100 and 12 hour TT, it was only last year that her 50mile record fell.

Riders back in the 50's/60's where certainly a lot tougher, having ridden a big TT or road race would then join their club mates on the Sunday club tea run.

Riding for 8 hours is boring.

erm ... no it isn't !

stAn-Bad Brains MBC - Member

Riding for 8 hours is boring.

erm ... no it isn't !

Oh yes it is 😀

I don't think that our forefathers were nails, I think its more that we are soft as shite.

Purely talking about bikes, I think maybe road & mtb are a bit soft generally, but theres some proper hard as eff & equally talented BMXers.

I'm currently reading Maglia Rosa, the history of the giro. The men who were doing it in the early 1900's were incredible, makes todays pros look like wimps!
In the 20's Binda once finished fourth in the tour of lombardi. the day before he cycled 200 miles to get to the start line. On a fixie. At 16mph. Crazy.

also reading the Maglia Rosa. Astonishing.

Pro's don't count, they're mad to start with....

Dunno about the nails thing but...

Before marriage my mum lived 30 miles away from my dad. He cycled (a black raleigh steel single speed 2 ton thing) to see her, then they both cycled to the "local" dance - maybe 8 miles (sometimes she got a backie), then he cycled home.

Twice a week, he never ever saw himself as a cyclist. Just getting the job done.

Thats what his and hers generations did. Just glad to be able to get about and his mates all did something similiar. Whats different for us is that cycling is now a choice (against driving) - they didn't.

I think the old timers were mentaly very tough, no crying because you've just been arguning with someone, oh no.

Down the mines for god knows how many hours then off for countless rounds in a boxing match, a few hours kip then back down the mines.

We do not have the mental strength of our predecessors that is for sure!

Few years back (about 20 years) i was tols of a block that rode form home 25 miles to the start of a 50mile TT. Rode the TT then rode 25 miles home.

I'm not that old and I've done plenty of things similar, so do quite a few other people. It might not be the norm nowadays but it does happen.
Later generations have continued doing the hard bits in the middle (i.e. the races, hard rides etc) but without the extras at either end.
I'd more than agree that the older generations put in more work, but I bet if you gave them a chance of driving somewhere they'd have taken it! My grandad used to do an 8 mile round trip twice a day, basically up and down the other side of a great big hill in Derbyshire, on a 50lb singlespeed with rod brakes. As soon as could afford a motorbike he stopped doing it 🙂

Quick example from my road club. We have club records for 10, 25, 30, 50, 100, 12hr timetrials.
All have been set in the last 3 years (yours truely even has the hill-climb record 😀 ) except for the 12hr. This was set in 1964 and still stands. I am going for it this year, but I've not got within 20 miles of it so far... Surely my new Plasma must be faster than whatever Nev was riding back then!
I suspect it will stand a while yet.
.
Related point, anyone ever tried to pull a standard medeveil longbow? Anyone succeeded?
Anyone tried to weild a broadsword? I just about managed to lift one!

Yes, tougher and less lazy in the past

................tosses coin............

UK av Life Expectancy has risen by about 2yrs for every decade over last half century.

reading about Tommy Godwin from nother thread I'd say a resounding yes!
http://www.phased.co.uk/index.php/tommy-godwin-mile-eater.html

my wifes grandparents are both 90, a few weeks ago her grandad had a minor stroke. When he came home social services called round saying they had come to help him. She told them to get lost. Stubborn maybe but they have the we'll just get on with it attitude which is sadly lacking now.

All the old tour tales and epic stages were mental, albeit the riders were drugged and pissed out of their skulls on brandy, red wine etc. so riding for 20 hrs was doable. Still hard riders in our modern times look at Landis epic solo win in the tour de france a few years ago it was amazing and he was only a little bit "juiced up"

Also Riis who is a big bloke on the big ring flying up all the mountains in le tour as if they were flat and dropping all the mountain specialists !!

All the fastest stage times have been set in the last 20 years !

EPO.

Doesn't stand for evening primrose oil...

I think Crikey maybe has missed the point so far.

Folk did what they had to do. They had no / less choices. Now we have MORE choices. Sure some folk cheated then, some now, but in my parents generation cycling 100 miles return to see a loved one was "normal" - doing 100 miles in X time was normal, doing Y was for the elite.

I cant comment on the elite - its not in my family!

I'm suggesting that the exploits of Mr Riis are best considered in the light of his nickname.

...and I fully agree that the modern day mountain biker or even road biker does considerably less than even I did when I started. The classic Peak district day out now starts with a drive. We used to ride there from east Manchester then ride home.

This thread reminds me of what I used to do when I was younger and makes me amazed/horrified that I no longer do it. Used to work full time in London, gig 2-3 times a week, cycle and swim regularly (often riding 20+ miles to swim), grow my own veg and do my own DIY. Now I still work full time, but locally, just about manage a couple of short rides a week, a couple of nights for hobbies and play about twice a month. I can afford to pay someone to do the household maintenance and havn't grown any veg in decades. What has happened to me? Can't be all down to the internet and TV can it???

Not riding but... my mum and gran often tell stories of how far they used to have to walk to school, work etc. At Christmas we stayed in a hotel just under 2 miles from my sister's house. When we insisted on walking it they were horrified.

my wifes grandparents are both 90, a few weeks ago her grandad had a minor stroke. When he came home social services called round saying they had come to help him. She told them to get lost. Stubborn maybe but they have the we'll just get on with it attitude which is sadly lacking now.

Generalising of course but maybe this mindset is one reason why some oldies were tougher than their modern equivalent, that, coupled with fewer entertainment options and greater austerity produced a far more determined attitude.

my wifes grandparents are both 90, a few weeks ago her grandad had a minor stroke. When he came home social services called round saying they had come to help him. She told them to get lost. Stubborn maybe but they have the we'll just get on with it attitude which is sadly lacking now.

It's probbly got more to do with old folk's fear of having to pay for medical assistance; people of that age wooduv grown up in a Britain without an NHS, so would be loathe to use a service that would cost them money, more than it is to do with them being 'tough'. Old habits die hard. My mum used to deal with loads of OAPs who din't want to get a doctor round to see them cos they 'coodunt afford it'. 🙁 That, and older folk can be highly suspicious of modern technology (see the MPs/Twitter thread. Ahem...), and also the fact that they may be very fearful of being put in a home or something by social services.

I have a neighbour like this; he is dying of emphysema, can't cope by himself day to day, but refuses to allow social services to send someone round to help him out, as he thinks this will lead to him completely losing whatever independence he has left. Daft old bugger fails to see that his quality of life could be improved considerably, he woon't have to live in squalor, and he woon't have to suffer so much stress.

It's a shame, when technology/modern life overtakes people. The world they knew is disappearing, and the new one is too fast and frightening for them.

That, and older folk can be highly suspicious of modern technology

and modern society..

there's many of the more isolated old folks who have been conditioned by the fearmongering media to believe that any stranger attempting to enter their home is out to rob their pension and steal their identity..

My dad took a single speed road bike over black sail pass in the 50s, he regularly used to ride 100+ mile days on the same bike

people of that age wooduv grown up in a Britain without an NHS, so would be loathe to use a service that would cost them money, more than it is to do with them being 'tough

I believe woody to be right on this

It is very unlikely to be a fear of having to pay but very likely to do with your other remarks re fear of losing their independence and a misplaced sense of pride.

Definitely the latter, no question, but you'd be amazed just how many old folk seem to think medical attention is going to cost them money. Maybe not so much these days, but many of the OAPs my mum worked certainly thought so. Mind you, many of them were quite senile as well, so that woodun't have helped.

My point was that many older folk don't see stuffs as being 'free', like people do today. They don't have the same sense of entitlement, and don't take things for granted.

As for the being 'tougher' bit; well, people used to die a good bit younger on average, and not be as knowledgeable about placing the heart and body under too much strain, things we know more about today.

And this discussion is vey British/Euro centric. People where my dad's from stiill work just as hard as they did when he were a lad; nowt much has changed there really. It's only really in developed affluent nations that people's lives have got much easier.

As for the tales of amazing endeavour; whilst undoubtedly some are true, there are many that aren't, and like all good stories, have bin embellished over time. There were very little ways to verify claims back then, so I'd imagine a fair bit of overexagerration went on. Like the grandfather of one of me mates, who used to 'regularly ride x hundred miles' in the North West somewhere, when the truth was, according to his wife, he did it two or three times ever, and the actual distance he claimed is considerable further than what it actually is.

And as for stuff like the TdF etc; loads of them were on drugs. Testing din't exist, and even when it did, it was nowhere near as advanced as it is today.

Today's athletes are stronger, fitter and faster. Advances in diet, training etc mean that even taking equipment development into account, today's riders would still be quicker.

Read this a while back [url= http://www.amazon.com/Around-World-Bicycle-Classics-American/dp/0811726533 ]Around the world on a Bicycle[/url]

In 1884, Thomas Stevens left San Francisco on a Columbia high-wheeler with the outrageous goal of becoming the first man to ride a bicycle across the United States. When he reached Boston, he decided to continue around the world, and soon sailed to London for the ride across Europe, the Middle East, and Asia. The high-wheeler was heavy and cumbersome, his supplies were limited to socks, a spare shirt, and a slicker that doubled as tent and bedroll, and much of the country he traversed was wild. Yet he persevered, recording his colorful and often harrowing adventures during the three-year odyssey in a classic of 19th century adventure and travel writing.

Barking mad bloke, who seems to have survived on his innate self belief and Colonial arrogance. Good read though 🙂

Tales like that illustrate my point about over-exaggeration and the lack of verification perfectly.

He went on his own, so no-one to verify his claims. In order to do such a thing he would undoubtedly have bin quite wealthy, so we don't know if he stayed in hotels and stuff really, do we? Was he accompanied by support teams for parts of his journey?

I'm sure there's probbly a lot of truth in such stories. But the lack of verifiable evidence makes me take such tales with a pinch of salt. Call me Cynic-Al, but he wooduv also had a vested inertest in selling his book, so he's going to make it as awesome as possible, in't he?

i have a little (non cycling) anecdote about how hard they were 2 generations back. when i was 18/19 my mother had a smallholding and the hay had been cut but not turned and due to crap weather no one was able to come and turn in for us. her neighbour who was in his 70's came up and said "we have to turn that or you'll loose the whole crop" i explained about no tractors available and he chuckle and came back with 2 pitch forks. now i was fit then, i was working hard on building sites 6 days a week at the time doing groundwork or blockwork but was proper shown up by a pensioner. we started at opposite ends of each field and every time he met me 3/4 of the way across. i was down to shorts and no top and he was in a tweed jacket, barely breaking a sweat. the next day i went round to see if he was ok as i could barely walk and he was digging his garden over!
he was an amazing man - thank you Elvrin, for that and every other time you saved our bacon 😉

Ooh, not looking good for Citeh now...

Jonah's post shows there's a lot to be said for just knowing how to work hard and do stuff. Reminds me a bit of working in the orchards in Tasmania- as a fit 25 year old I'd look at the lardy 40- 50 year olds packing 10 bins a day with fags hanging out of their mouths and think "I can do at least what they can". I couldn't though.

My Mum was a school girl during the war and regularly had to walk to school in Aldershot from Fleet. Not a journey I would fancy today, but they just got on with it..what was the alternative? I know the effect of a boys school near her's being hit by a doodlebug has never left her. She and the mother of a friend of mine are both incredible stoics - trying to get them to realise they are sometimes ill and need to see a medical professional is always a struggle. My Dad, who served in the RAF during the war was just the same. He cycled miles as a boy in the 1930s (Heads of the Valley road from Cardiff most weekends) and was fit as anything right up to the last couple of years of his life- he barely let a triple by-pass slow hime down and stop him doing what he wanted.

It's mainly about what you are used to.

Look at the poor people in africa, women/children walking for miles and miles to get water and then carring back a 25 litre container full, not many on here could do that......

Oh wait a minute, you could all do that if you needed the water. You could all do that every day, after a few weeks it would not be so hard.

we have become softer because life has become easier, we all could do what our grandparents could do.