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The 29er will be the death of proper mountain biking.
What have you been smoking?
pussywillow - Member
The five 29r is a cycle cross bike, simples! It's all marketing BS and all the jeys on here fall for it cos a few magazines have been paid to say how it rolls better!! I would much prefer a smaller wheeled bike for steep tight twisty stuff, but then again I think most people on here wont have a clue what steep n techy stuff is cos all theyll ride will be trail centres.The 29er will be the death of proper mountain biking
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I937.PHOTOBUCKET.COM 29er hardtail ? yes, i'm actually thinking of getting one as a mile muncher
29er short travel ? possibly useful but i'm not convinced at all
29er "AM" long travel ? nope, never in a million years, they simply do not work for that application, bikeradar and beardies can say what they like i've tried a few and they were all crap.
OK, let's try and break this down. b45her, I tend to agree with you and the conventional wisdom is also that 29ers work best on HT and short travel FS, but I'm not sure why.
Presumably we can agree that a larger wheel goes up and down less than a smaller one on bumpy ground. So, that explains why it would be good on a HT. If the extra comfort of the larger wheel means that you don't need the extra weight, cost, complexity and energy sapping inefficiency of a rear shock that's got to be a winner. As soon as you go to a full suss you've lost that advantage.
So, why should a larger wheel be better for a short travel FS but "crap" for a longer travel one? Presumably the argument for them on a full suss is to do with the fact that suspension is not perfectly efficient so it's better if the wheel moves less in the first place. But why does that argument fail when travel gets beyond some magic number?
The five 29r is a cycle cross bike, simples! It's all marketing BS and all the jeys on here fall for it cos a few magazines have been paid to say how it rolls better!! I would much prefer a smaller wheeled bike for steep tight twisty stuff, but then again I think most people on here wont have a clue what steep n techy stuff is cos all theyll ride will be trail centres.The 29er will be the death of proper mountain biking.
Pussywillow, you really aren't very bright are you 😉
29er "AM" long travel ? nope, never in a million years, [s]they simply do not work[/s] [i]early designs weren't great[/i] for that application, bikeradar and beardies can say what they like i've tried a few and they were all crap.
Evolution my dear boy, evolution 😉
Obviously touched a nerve wi all u 29 lovers! Why not just get yourselves a cyclocross bike and cut out all the bullshit. 8)
A cyclocross bike, yesterday… 😉
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Does my bum look big in this 🙂 Those chainstays look huge, but I'm sure it's just the angle.
So, the big questions. When can we expect the next instalment of the blog (your public awaits) and will you be trading the Gyro for a Five29 in the summer?
Love your CX bike GaryLake 😀
Roverpig, the 22mm lens exaggerates the perspective – it even looks like I've got a 26" wheel up front now that I think about it 🙂 But using that lens is 'a look' anyway 🙂
Wouldn't trade this in for a Five29, I'd have both 😛 No law against having two cross bikes is there?
Cyclocross bike plus 2.5" tyres...sorted! 😆
I'm sorry if I'v offended anybody, but I really don't like what industry is doing this time. I suppose it doesn't suit my style of riding and it does yours, I feel this will ruin my style of riding in a few years when 26ers will no longer be available,
I love my 26 five and can't imagine riding it with big clown wheels.
because as travel increases more and more compromises have to be designed into the frames to allow clearance for the wagon wheels.
it also comes down to their respective uses, big wheels for fire roads and and the occasional small bump yes by all means.
every long travel 29er i've tried was a barge, you don't so much ride them as wrestle them.
to recap lots of inertia in a straight line = good thing
lots of inertia and deviating from straight line = bad thing
why do you think big wheels are everywhere at XC events and almost non existent at gravity enduro's and downhill races?
every long travel 29er i've tried was a barge, you don't so much ride them as wrestle them.
Yeah but if you spend more than 5 minutes on one you do adapt. I've got a Five too by the way but I've pretty much donated it to my wife. I've been a 29er rider for 18 months now, I tend to override a 26er now, you just adapt and change. I've just gotten abit stronger in the upper body than before and now it feels normal.
I've ridden the Gyro in the above spec down the FOD DH trails and had a great time. The only limiting factor was the current Fox CTD tunes being a bit too blowy but that would afflict a 26er just the same.
I don't want to see the death of 26ers as I respect choice and what that means for the individual. But all your arguments against 29ers are largely codswallop 😛
What's to stop you putting a Works Components headset and the 140mm Fox 34 (that Chainline is selling in the classifieds) into the Gyro? Actually with careful selection of headset and offset bushings you should be able to get the head angle, seat angle and front travel to be the same as the Five29, but with a bit less rear travel and a lighter overall package. Plus no warranty of course 🙂
What's to stop you putting a Works Components headset and the 140mm Fox 34 (that Chainline is selling in the classifieds) into the Gyro? Actually with careful selection of headset and offset bushings you should be able to get the head angle, seat angle and front travel to be the same as the Five29, but with a bit less rear travel and a lighter overall package. Plus no warranty of course
The warranty 🙂
Every long travel 29er i've tried was a barge, you don't so much ride them as wrestle them.
hmmm... tough one to solve this 💡
ahh yes... don't buy one then 😉
Out of interest, what long-travel 29ers have you ridden?
It will be interesting to see what the Five29 does to sales of the Gyro and the regular Five.
Gary's comment about the Gyro resembling the ST4 is interesting. An ST4 is all the bike most people need, but everybody wants the Five. I can see the Gyro being the sensible choice and therefore, being quietly dropped from the line in a few years. On the other hand, whether it is codswallop or not, it does seem to be accepted wisdom that 26" wheels are more fun and a Five is really a play bike. So, I'm not sure whether the addition of a Five29 will have much effect on demand for the regular Five.
It's interesting to note the differing approaches of Orange and Giant, for example, to larger wheels. Orange bring out a Five29 alongside the regular Five. Giant develop a Trance 29er and pretty much drop the 26" version. Not sure what that tells us about the attitude of the two companies, but I found the contrast interesting.
Here's my long travel 29er.....I've posted pics already on STW but I don't mind showing it off again as I love it to bits. It just eats up steep technical descents for breakfast and in my opinion (biased obviously 😆 ) it's one of the most capable bikes I've ever ridden. The demo version of my bike even managed a couple of runs down the Fort William DH course with relative ease.
Also, last months Dirt magazine gave a glowing review of the 140mm Meta AM 29er.
Now that there's a muich greater choice of 'All Mountain' 29ers I think we'll start to see more of them at Enduro events around the country. I'd love to take mine to one
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It's interesting to note the differing approaches of Orange and Giant, for example, to larger wheels. Orange bring out a Five29 alongside the regular Five. Giant develop a Trance 29er and pretty much drop the 26" version. Not sure what that tells us about the attitude of the two companies, but I found the contrast interesting.
Maybe Giant is aiming more for the American market?
The decision of some comapanies to drop 26er and jump on the 650B bandwagon instead I find more curious/disturbing (delete as appropriate) 😯
26" and 29" seem to be co-existing just fine in my opinion, a third standard is one too many.
Now that there's a muich greater choice of 'All Mountain' 29ers I think we'll start to see more of them at Enduro events around the country.
+1 I agree
To miss-quote an earlier point - Every DH bike I've tried was a barge, you don't so much ride them as wrestle them.
...but I've not got limbs like pipe-cleaners and I got used to it after a half dozen runs on one bike, after that I was taking different lines, adapting and going way faster - loads of fun ) Still way off throwing it about like some do, top DH guys are pretty strong.
Seperately, sort of - Sometimes the best bikes are the ones that you don't gel with instantly, they force to you to adapt to the differences compared to what you're used to, differences that you then find advantages in. Or not, maybe.
But more of the same is either 'happy with what I have thanks' and that's fine if you don't go on about others who find a benefit in a change, or it's just dull and generic, no progress. Too much of either is rarely good. I like my set-in-my-ways bike but I also would quit my job the day I CBA to try to find advantages or disadvantages in something new, from experience I know a single test ride usually isn't enough. Makes finding a new bike a pita tho and that's why I think most of us would go for the first one that feels right rather than take a risk - back to the drawbacks of excess choice (ie the windsurfing analogy. There's a good article by Andy Waterman on Privateer blog about that in the bike industry)
And PW, relax. No one's going to take away your 26" wheels )
b45her - Memberto recap lots of inertia in a straight line = good thing
lots of inertia and deviating from straight line = bad thing
why do you think big wheels are everywhere at XC events and almost non existent at gravity enduro's and downhill races?
Neither of those reasons specifically. For downhill it's simple, there isn't the hardware- if you could get a 29er Boxxer and a 29er 721 and a 29er dualply minion to fit to your 29er Glory then you'd see people using it. As it is, people are working on it with Manitou forks (gah!) and whatever else is available, and unsurprisingly it's less good than the tried and tested 26ers. Keep watching. 650B is already creeping in with KHS and Intense.
For enduro- people use what they have, relatively few people have long travel 29ers. Box did pretty good on his clown-Intense 😉
pussywillow - MemberI love my 26 five and can't imagine riding it with big clown wheels.
Clearly! Instead of trying to imagine it, try trying it?
I've made my "too much choice" argument many times before, but here's another angle. How many people - honestly - need even more capable bikes that roll even better than before?
I demo'd a Bandit yesterday which by modern standards is [i]relatively[/i] short travel and is "only" a 26er. I was over Derwent Valley way which is probably indicative of the kind of riding a lot of us do. Sure, many of us - me included - ride steeper stuff, more technical stuff and faster stuff, but I reckon the trails in the Derwent Valley are what [i]many[/i] of us do [i]most[/i] of the time. Frankly if I had a bike that was more capable and rolled over terrain better than the Bandit, it would be really quite boring and I'd soon run out of riding to keep me interested.
How many of us saw Rat Boy Bryce ride the new Blur TR and got a little bit excited about that bike, knowing full well that the bike is NOT going to magically make us ride as well as him?
stilltortoise - MemberI've made my "too much choice" argument many times before, but here's another angle. How many people - honestly - need even more capable bikes that roll even better than before?
With a front wheel that rolled over roots slightly better than I have, I wouldn't be limping just now 
It really depends what you're riding I guess. Riding around innerleithen offmap stuff, more bike would make me faster not more bored. Riding around Glentress, it just depends on the bike (not all bikes get more boring as they get more capable, that's where it becomes black magic)
But I agree, mostly a more capable bike would just let me have faster crashes
But I agree, mostly a more capable bike would just let me have faster crashes
This is the bit that frankly scares me 😆 I was way within the comfort zone of the Bandit, but any faster and I'd want a taped off course and paramedics on stand by 😀
I've got a lot of sympathy with these arguments 🙂
I have a Large Trance (125mm travel and 69,5 HA) and a Medium Five with various tweaks so it's now running at 150mm with a HA around 66 degrees. You'd imagine that they were pretty different bikes. But can I decide which one I prefer? Can I buggery! Why would I need any more options?
Actually the argument goes a bit like this. I can't decide between these two, so let's sell them both any buy something different 😳
I'm also put off by the "more capable equals faster crashes" argument. I was kind of hoping that a larger wheel would not get trapped as often so I could spend more time on the bike and less on my arse. But, if I end up going faster that could just mean more time in Casualty.
Some pics of the new Five29 are now up on the MBR site for those that are interested.
[url=
MBR.CO.UK - Five29[/url]
They also quote a weight of 32lb 12oz for a Medium. Not sure if that was with the pedals or not, but I guess it is without a dropper. Add pedals and a dropper and I guess a Large would be the wrong side of 35lb. Mind you, I guess this is a bike that is clearly focussed on the ride down.
holy crap, i thought they were made of aluminium not pig iron.
i used to have an sx trail with coil shocks and deemax's that weighed about that.
my current strive is lighter with peddles and a dropper, still its a 29er so doesn't need peddling up hills as they can ignore the laws of physics and gravity simply by the power advertising.
Does seem a bit chunky... And looking at it, nothing looks outrageously heavy in the build either.
My Black came in at just over 32lb with peddals and a dropper, so this'll be the wrong side of 34lb. Perhaps Orange are just being more honest than the others with regards to weight? Lot of mass in the rims they use. Also, why have the rear swingarm configured for internal hose routing but then faff them up externally? Looks a right mess.
That quoted weight must include pedals, even for a bike aimed more at going down that up, 34lbs+ seems very lardy.
Absolutely gopping.
As above looks awful. Weight wise, my Trance X29 2 is 34lbs with a dropper fitted. Pretty basic spec though. 29er full sussers are pretty chunky though.
Paceman - Member
That quoted weight must include pedals, even for a bike aimed more at going down that up, 34lbs+ seems very lardy.
POSTED 3 MINUTES AGO #
I don't think you know much about mountain biking do you?
Well so far it is already 33lb effectively isn't it, and bike manufacturer's always quote weights without pedals don't they? It is a bit lardy, but then most bikes seem to weigh more than quoted. There's probably a hunk of weight in the OE tyres - swop them for some proper things that actually grip and you'd shave over a lb in all the right places. Then once you go to a 1x10 set-up.....
It just seems that Orange are being more honest than most. Quite a few manu's hide bike weights. My mate's allegedly lightweight Specialized weighs more than my Orange. It's not really worth getting hung up on though is it? What does it ride like, and is it fun?
again regardless of how it rides, what size and what colour it will sell well adorn audi's be matched with a baby 5 and get raved about. Potential master stroke from orange what to get for the man who has everything loves 29r's but can't bear to part with his 5.....
You really do have a chip on your shoulder don't you. Do you secretly want an Audi? Grow up...
"more capable equals faster crashes" argument
This although sounding daft is something I found to be a proper issue. The first time out on my Camber I had two monumental crashes - the sort where you watch the bike cartwheel off down the trail as you sail merrily through the air. The second of the two I hit the ground so hard my shoes flew off*..
On the subject of fun, I've found that I don't really have the same enjoyment riding mine as I did my five. I'm riding in North Wales this weekend so this will make my mind up one way or another
*must tie laces
[b][u]Tom_B:[/u][/b]As above looks awful. Weight wise, my Trance X29 2 is 34lbs with a dropper fitted. Pretty basic spec though. 29er full sussers are pretty chunky though.
Seriously? You think that looks worse than the Trance X29er? I guess there is no accounting for taste 🙂
flange, I'll be interested to hear what you decide.
I've got a Cube AMS 29'er (120mm) that only cost £1200 new from Germany - cracking machine -- however. I'm selling my orange 5 to get the Orange 5 29'er and am slowly moving the bike-fleet to 29'er bikes.
Someone above said the Orange 5 is like the "911 of mtb's".
The Cube is like an American Ford Mustang. 300bhp, but only costs £16k new.
Whilst the Cube has a similar spec and weight to the orange (for £1800 less!), it has a slightly mental suspension design and struggles a bit with our weather conditions (it has 8 bearings/bushings rather than 2).
rapiddescent? Have you managed to get a test ride on the Five29 or are you buying on faith? I can see the advantage of simplicity, but is there anything else that particularly attracted you to the Five29?
Will be having a test ride at a test day in a couple of weeks time;
DALESBIKECENTRE.CO.UK Also having a go on a Rumblefish.
The Orange whether 29 or 26 is being considered due to nearing pensionable age and the single pivot frame will be easier to maintain.
Sounds like a fun day out. I'll be interested to hear how you get on.
I'm a few years away from drawing my pension, but there is still a part of me that thinks I could just buy a Five and it may be the last MTB I ever need. It is capable of going anywhere that I have the nerve to go and with a bit of care (and possibly some support from the factory) could quite possibly last as long as I want to ride. Scary thought.
[i]I'm a few years away from drawing my pension, but there is still a part of me that thinks I could just buy a Five and it may be the last MTB I ever need. It is capable of going anywhere that I have the nerve to go and with a bit of care (and possibly some support from the factory) could quite possibly last as long as I want to ride. Scary thought.[/i]
That was me a couple of years ago, so I got one. Best bike Iv'e had by far & I don't intend to change it!
Why do people worry so much about weight? Mate of mine rode his Patriot up the Col Du Cou & didn't complain a few years ago. The bloody thing weighed in at about 40lbs too.
muddyground - MemberThere's probably a hunk of weight in the OE tyres - swop them for some proper things that actually grip and you'd shave over a lb in all the right places.
Mmm, not convinced- the heaviest rubber queen's just shy of a kilo but you'd not want to put anything too light on one of these anyway. You only lose about 100g an end going to the folding Protection model 2.2 RQ.
I want to see a frame weight but Orange tend to keep those to themselves. Weight isn't everything but it's something 😉 This thing's not much lighter than my 224's going to be!
For me in the 20/22" frame i'd be looking at the 29er would look better.
As for riding, for me the bigger wheels would be better as i'm out all day. There isn't enough steep stuff for me to worry about having too long a bike as it would only be a small percentage of the ride.
If I rode the alps regularly and uplifts I'd go 26".
The beauty of a choice 🙂
Neither of those reasons specifically. For downhill it's simple, there isn't the hardware- if you could get a 29er Boxxer and a 29er 721 and a 29er dualply minion to fit to your 29er Glory then you'd see people using it. As it is, people are working on it with Manitou forks (gah!) and whatever else is available, and unsurprisingly it's less good than the tried and tested 26ers. Keep watching. 650B is already creeping in with KHS and Intense.
No, if downhill teams thought it would give them an advantage they'd have pestered Fox/Marz/RS by now to produce them a fork and tyre manufactures to produce 29er prototype dual plys.
So far though, none of the top DH teams have bothered.
I wonder why. Is it because....29ers are shit for downhill? Because when you look at top DH riders, they don't just point the bike and let it roll over bumps....they're hopping, skipping and manualing their way down the runs?
bwaarp - MemberSo far though, none of the top DH teams have bothered.
Intense pushed for DH 29ers for years and got nowhere (back when Intense were a big deal in racing). And the fact that Intense, KHS and Scott are all competing with 650B but being forced to use bodges proves that manufacturers pushing for the kit doesn't make it appear. Fox might have a 650B 40 in time for the world cup, might not, they're trailing behind where some teams want to go.