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Three little pigs
Reference to Suck! and a boo-hoo story one if them posted implying that OO/Brant purposefully ripped them off.
41 posts, 39 showing, I wonder what juicy goss has been deleted?
To be fair the forum does that all the time, it just gets confused and breaks stuff once a thread gets to 40 posts, so I very much doubt anything's been deleted.
I had this frame built 6 years ago by Waltly titanium in China
Goes off to browse the Walty store on Alibaba
Goes off to browse the Walty store on Alibaba
?
Main types of IP are patents, copyright, trade mark, registered design and unregistered design. Conceivably there could be some narrow design right covering an exact copy...so there MIGHT be an IP angle.
All the sonder owners must be crying 😅
So, is this good or bad publicity for On One?
Certainly seems a bit iffy for the professional reputation of the designer in question.
I’m not. Should I be?
I’m not crying either...quite happy with my signal ti. Great bike.
I think Lidl and Aldi are frequently in court for various IP reasons such as copyright, trademark or "passing off"...
http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/search/max-results=7?q=aldi
*hangs around "middle of Lidl" looking for cheap ti frames*
41 posts, 39 showing, I wonder what juicy goss has been deleted?
Nothing juicy just people being edgy, well offensive.
Weird. Brant is normally all over the PX/OO ‘publicity’ threads.
Don't go looking at Ribble's new MTB's. Same factories probably. Big deal.
So I ordered my "Mutsu" should be coming Saturday.
Maybe I am going to hell but I am planning on buying my bags from alpkit and some gear so that might make up for it...
Aren’t those Hebden Bridge Trouser Company trousers just copies of stuff you can buy on Cotton Traders?
Aren’t those Hebden Bridge Trouser Company trousers just copies of stuff you can buy on Cotton Traders?
*something about trousers having been around for a long time and you can't copyright a waist size*
(also, I may have got this wrong but I seem to remember one reason they don;t make in trouser town any more is that their original manufacturer started making and selling the original HebTroCo products so it may be that you can buy HebTroCo copies on Cotton Traders, not the other way round).
I think Lidl and Aldi are frequently in court for various IP reasons such as copyright, trademark or “passing off”…
That is because they use the same colours and fonts but just use a word close to the product they are copying.
I am not sure they would get into the same trouble for using a cardboard box or tin that is generally used and has nothing about it that differentiates if from previously used tins and boxes. Whereas if you copied Sonders logo it may be a different matter?
If I was doing it again I’d go direct to Waltly, save a wedge of cash for starters
I actual tried that with XCAD, they couldn't beat planet-x when I tried to spec a pompino with a few tweeks. There's scope to cut corners and undercut them with plain guage tubes etc but I suspect their proffit margin is of the same magnitude as the bulk order discounts.
I came across this comment under a slightly different context.
But what goes around, comes around. If you offload the manufacture of your top secret designs to nascent capitalist countries in search of cheap labour, what can you expect but to have your designs appropriated? Unfortunately, this process also extends to the smaller companies. All it takes is for some industrious individual in a far away country to order an item from them, and then hey presto, the design can be copied and not much can be done about it (unless you have the money to throw at international trade lawyers, and to my knowledge most smaller companies don’t).
Can I ask those who have got a Ti hard tail, are they worth it over steel/alu/carbon? I've always fancied trying one out. Either a 120-130mm 27.5 or 29er with a fairly slack head angle.
The only justification I need is that it's lighter than steel and looks really classy, anything else is a bonus! 🙂
So, is this good or bad publicity for On One?
Certainly seems a bit iffy for the professional reputation of the designer in question.
Storm in a tea cup. Someone made a bike frame and someone else made one which looks similar, exactly the same thing has been happening since the bicycle was invented. All the steel racing frames in the 30s-80s looked absolutely identical bar a minor tweak to the frame lugs.
The only justification I need is that it’s lighter than steel and looks really classy
There you have it.
Can I ask those who have got a Ti hard tail, are they worth it over steel/alu/carbon?
I had a Brant designed Shed Fire Ti Hardtail (just sold it). The main benefit is it looks lovely and you get to feel smug. Honestly, I'm not sure any rider could tell the difference between Steel, Al and Carbon in a blind test. Although carbon bikes do tend to be very light, which you do notice as soon as you stamp on the pedals.
Obviously Ti doesn't rust and some of the cheap Steel frames have very poor quality paint eg my original 456 was rusting within about a week of being built up and used outside.
Can I ask those who have got a Ti hard tail, are they worth it over steel/alu/carbon? I’ve always fancied trying one out. Either a 120-130mm 27.5 or 29er with a fairly slack head angle.
The only justification I need is that it’s lighter than steel and looks really classy, anything else is a bonus! 🙂
Millions of threads on here, all more or less the same - 'bike for life', 'they all crack', 'Mark Lynskey killed my kittens' etc. This is the most recent I think:
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/titanium-hardtail-talk-me-out-of-it/
with different materials it's all down to how they have been designed on a one to one basis. No two will be the same so you cannot just generalize.
Honestly, I’m not sure any rider could tell the difference between Steel, Al and Carbon in a blind test.
I actually did this once and couldn't tell any difference at all. I crashed all of them.
Honestly, I’m not sure any rider could tell the difference between Steel, Al and Carbon in a blind test
Now that's a test I'd like to see. 3 identical frames, all painted Matt black, 1 ALU, 1 steel, 1 titanium. See out of a spectrum of 5 riders who could notice any difference
with different materials it’s all down to how they have been designed on a one to one basis.[b] No two will be the same [/b]so you cannot just generalize.
Quite an irony given the subject matter of the thread 😆
Storm in a tea cup. Someone made a bike frame and someone else made one which looks similar, exactly the same thing has been happening since the bicycle was invented. All the steel racing frames in the 30s-80s looked absolutely identical bar a minor tweak to the frame lugs.
This is kind-of valid, but hugely reductive - and you've ignored the point about freelance ethics & industry reputation.
and you’ve ignored the point about freelance ethics & industry reputation.
No, I just don't think there's an issue here at all to worry about. Obviously you're free to disagree. I doubt either company will suffer any loss from this. The frame design is not at all revolutionary nor has anything particularly orginal about it. So just another two frames in a world of look-alike frames, which ride like all the other frames. Commerical success will be down to branding, pricing, the package, service, logos etc. Alpkit / Sonder has it's fans as do On-One / PX. I like both and buy from both and coulnd't give a monkey's that two of their frames are similar / identical.
looks similar
Contender for understatement of the year?
No, I just don’t think there’s an issue here at all to worry about
Put yourself in the position of another bike company looking for a freelance designer.
Do you hire the one who did a design for another customer, then basically re-used it for a competitor - or one who didn't do that?
Do you hire the one who did a design for another customer, then basically re-used it for a competitor – or one who didn’t do that?
Who knows how it happened. Once you've made one, anyone else can just copy it. A HT frame is an incredibly simple design to clone, all the parts are freely available in every frame factory.
Do you hire the one who did a design for another customer, then basically re-used it for a competitor
I think the point was made earlier that the current sonder line-up aren't 'brant' designs?
all it takes is for on one to pop some cheap stuff up for sale and all will be forgiven 🙁
Who knows how it happened.
One person probably does, but hasn't showed up yet.
I think the point was made earlier that the current sonder line-up aren’t ‘brant’ designs?
OK maybe I got the wrong end of the stick. If that's the case and the "copied" bikes were someone else's design then it's less dodgy, granted.
I could make a killing from Ti pitchforks.
No one copy my idea, please.
footflaps
someone else made one which looks similar,
It doesn't look similar....it looks identical.
Now that’s a test I’d like to see. 3 identical frames, all painted Matt black, 1 ALU, 1 steel, 1 titanium. See out of a spectrum of 5 riders who could notice any difference
IIRC a good few years ago the mag did exactly that - two Charge Dusters both painted black, ridden back to back by anyone who fancied a go at telling the difference. One Ti the other steel but they didn't tell the testers that.
The general conclusion was a bit vague but seemed be essentially err... no they couldn't tell!
That said I'm sure I *could* tell my Tinbred from a steel one properly blinded. It's just... zingier.
It doesn’t look similar….it looks identical.
Bar the head tube and the writing.
and the angles
I wouldn't hang my hat on the angles being half a degree different when measuring them side by side