[Closed] News: First Look: Pivot Mach 5.5 Carbon

£3,300 frame only 😯

Aye, the high/low-end gulf widens.

£3,300 frame only

12x148mm Boost rear spacing for maximum stiffness and control.

slightly higher prices

@stevied
S Works Enduro frame Only is 3000, this is 3300 which probably accounts for the volume discount Spec get. Bronson Frame 2900 a few years into production. It's about the price of a top end Carbon frame these days

£3300:
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£3400:
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If YT can do a complete bike for (almost) the same price, surely, they* are taking the p*ss with the frame only price?

*Spec/Santa Cruz etc too

Brave move for a company to bring out such an expensive/overpriced(?) frameset when the trend for direct to consumer bikes is gaining ground! Doubt it'll be a big seller!

[i]Doubt it'll be a big seller[/i]

I suspect the price reflects the cost of the moulds versus the predicted numbers that'll be sold.

I think it looks pretty good and a lot of attention to the details that give you a warm feeling when you look at a frame (the cable ports etc).

Would I pay that for a frame or £6k for a complete bike? Probably not but I like that people will and stuff like this gets made.

Got a proper comparison? YT don't do frame only, whats the price difference on the comparable build bike?

Brave move for a company to bring out such an expensive/overpriced(?) frameset when the trend for direct to consumer bikes is gaining ground!

completely different market. I ride with a guy with a carbon Pivot with XTR Di2. He rides Enigma titanium road bikes sprinkled with Chris King, and drives an AMG Merc. Doubt he's even heard of YT.

I'm just glad they've finally figured out reach. Their XL mach 6 is shorter than an avrage medium

Lovely looking bike with sensible geometry 🙂 - good length top tube for us short-legged / long-bodied types.

Like the 160mm front / 140mm rear travel combo too.

Does look pretty expensive but full builds seem to be roughly similar to Santa Cruz (give or take a bit).

YTs look like amazing value but they never seem to hold stock - I guess that helps keep the price down.

Can't be a Pivot.

It doesn't say the word PIVOT on it 59 times.

Best looking bike that Pivot have done for years. It'll sell in pretty much exactly the numbers that Pivot expect, I bet. The frame-only price does make a Jeffry or Capra look extremely good VFM. YT bikes will get more expensive post-Brexit. US brands might get a little cheaper if we can nut-out a trade deal with the The Trumpinator. Don't hold your breath though.

rhayter - Member

YT bikes will get more expensive post-Brexit. US brands might get a little cheaper if we can nut-out a trade deal with the The Trumpinator.

Am sure there will be a trade deal, but given the massively reduced negotiating position that the UK will have and the competency of those doing the negotiating, I wouldn't be holding your breath for a better deal

I suspect the price reflects the cost of the moulds versus the predicted numbers that'll be sold.

Not really. Things are not priced on a cost plus basis. That just limits the profit people make. They simply price on the basis or what they think they can get away with. These things are cheaper to produce than metal bikes, but carbon is sexier so that adds a good few hundred percent markup on the price - who wouldn't be prepared to pay a juicy premium for CARBON FIBRE, the material of tomorrow over the metal, the material of yesteryear. They also have to price in a good chunk to cover warranty pay-outs. At least CF MTB frames have something about them, with suspension. CF road bike frames are even more of a rip off.

Moulds for carbon bikes are cheap not like moulds for metal products that actually operate under presses and have to be made from hard metal to withstand thousands of pressings. CF mounds can be made from wood or anything, 3D printed, whatever works. Cheap as chips.

Make no bones about it - they're making a tidy profit on these bad-boys.

So carbon bikes are cheaper to make than metal ones?
OK.

slightly

£3300 frame only is less slightly and more "what the actual ****?"

I cannot believe for a second that the average rider notices any other real difference in this and a 2.5K complete bike.

I cannot believe for a second that the average rider notices any other real difference in this and a 2.5K complete bike.

Looks lovely, really lovely. Wonder if they will do a alu one in a few years that i may be able to afford.

So carbon bikes are cheaper to make than metal ones?
OK.

I suspect so. Carbon products in industry are generally cheaper than metal ones. Part of the reason why there is such a push to productions carbon fibre components despite them being a PITA out in service. On the products my company is producing we've gone from metal to carbon products and due to customer demand back to metal despite the metal ones being more expensive - they last longer in service so in the long run they are cheaper. Only in components where there is a clear benefit to the performance of the product due weight reduction do we stick to carbon fibre. Of course i'm talking about industrial products rather than premium recreational ones. Either way there is not much in it. Certainly not by the factors of the difference between a decent metal frame vs. a boutique carbon one.

Anyway its irrelevant because the cost to product something bears no resemblance to its price. And even if it did it would be a small proportion next to all the other costs to bring a product to market like distribution, legal costs, marketing etc.

ooooh nice. if it rides like my mach6 pivot it'll be awesum

Moulds for carbon bikes are cheap

Clearly you've got a price list to back that up, so go on then.

And explain why some companies buy 'open mould' frames, why other companies retain moulds and use them for lower spec frames (using cheaper CF) and why Giant and Norco make "carbon' bikes with alloy rear triangles when carbon and moulds are so cheap.

Nice, but at £3300 they can FRO.

Clearly you've got a price list to back that up, so go on then.

And explain why some companies buy 'open mould' frames, why other companies retain moulds and use them for lower spec frames (using cheaper CF) and why Giant and Norco make "carbon' bikes with alloy rear triangles when carbon and moulds are so cheap.

Well that would depend on what the specification was that was handed to the production engineers from the marketing department and the bean counters - what the cost per unit limit is, what the required production rate is, what materials they have to work with are etc - all decisions any production engineer has to wrestle with and the spec will dictate the materials used and production methods used. Other constraints like what and where their expertise lies, what the capabilities of their suppliers is. Like any engineered product you build to a spec. The spec is a compromise between cost, quality and other parameters. If you want to build the lightest AND strongest frame out there then it is going to be more expensive, if you are prepared to compromise on strength or weight then you compromise and reduce costs. Every company will have their own set of specifications based upon their target audience. Its no different to any other product or any other bike made from any other material.

The challenge with Carbon lay up is control over the wall thickness of the frame especially around frame intersections and junctions. If you cut open a carbon frame you'd find the inner surface will vary alot in terms of wall thickness, and your frame is only going to be as strong as its weakest point so your manufacturing processes and the control you have over the wall thickness is going to dictate the weight of your frame - if you want alot of control over the consistency of the wall thickness then you have to choose the appropriate product method, which will most likely be more expensive.

My point is that bike companies put on a significant premium on CF frames because they can get away with it - market pricing. Metal frames have come down in price since they went out to Taiwan for production to take advantage of cheaper production costs, CF bikes are getting to the same point but the price point is holding because why would you drop the price of something unless you had to? Same in Golf, same with sports cars etc. Bikes are no different. That is why companies like YT Industries can sell complete bikes for as much as a boutique brand frame - they command less of a premium for the frame, get big discounts for bulk buying the components and knock out great bikes for less. The boutique brand frame might or might not be any better - who knows? i'm not sure how you'd even test it. But it's classic marketing.

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That makes my insides go funny.....

Carbon costs more to produce right now than Alu but not much more. Depending on number of Proto runs and your manufacturer, you'd be looking at maybe 5-10 times the cost in prototyping, 1.5 in production (on average)

"Carbon products in industry are generally cheaper than metal ones."

Are they chuff

It's a bloody lovely looking frame and almost exactly what I am looking for once I decide to get a new frame. But... £3300? That made my cheeks almost touch on then inside I took in such a deep breath.

So, how much 'should' it be? How much 'should' each link in the chain make?

Less. Much less. Prob around £2500, certainly no more.

£2500?!? You could buy a decent spec canyon for that!!11one!!

My wife has a Pivot Mach 6 and loves it. They make nice bikes.

Must be tricky coming up with blurb to write about new bikes but...

[i]And looking at the specs, the Mach 5.5 would appear to have all the right ingredients to be the [b]perfect UK trail centre machine[/b].[/i]

Since when has 160/140 travel been perfect for any trail centre? Bag 'o' shite!

Indeed.

Does anyone actually pay full price for frames like this? I think they just start it at a lunatic price so they can discount it more.

Pivot dealer here. Margins are not mega by any stretch of the imagination. While I've never sold one at RRP they are not discounted that much.

But as a Mach6 V2 owner, my wife's a Mach 4 owner and our mechanic races Enduro on a Mach 6 v1 they genuinely are brilliant bikes.

So, looks like everyone else cried off actually riding it due to the rain:

<smirk>

anyone know what those lairy shoes are that he's wearing? (and whether they come in black ?)

I demo'd one of these today and came away very impressed.

It was (relatively) light, lively and 'poppy'. The geometry felt spot on for me and It climbed really well. Never bothered with the various suspension modes, just left it open and it just worked.

It is very expensive but it felt way better than the SC 5010c I demo'd the other week. I know how well regarded they are but I just didn't get on with it. I only mention the 5010 because I guess cost wise they're not that far apart. The 5,5 rode the way I imagined the SC was going to based on how people describe them.

It's really difficult for me to justify spending so much on a bike however - and obviously this is entirely subjective - it was right up there as one of the best bikes I've demo'd recently