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shut your hole
Crossed wires - I was referring to that 27.5 Kinesis hardtail. 67 deg static HA on a 29er full-sus is much slacker! 🙂
Regarding longness (sic) and lowness, I went pretty far with my new hardtail (tweaked Zero AM) and was concerned that it would make my full-sus (Spitfire) feel too short and high.
In actual use though, despite the sagged BB height of the hardtail being quite a bit lower (definitely in the ridiculously low region - I'm running 165mm cranks), the BB heights when riding and pumping the bikes or loading into turns are actually pretty similar. The full-sus just sits a bit higher when pedalling, which makes it a better climber when ground clearance matters.
And the reach thing - the hardtail is about 40mm longer in reach (again sagged, not static) but as the full-sus has 50mm wider bars (800s) they feel a similar size but a different shape (I prefer the wider bars but trees are an issue on my home trails). And the full-sus doesn't feel at all lacking in length. The wheelbases are very similar anyway because the full-sus has a slacker head angle at sag, longer forks, and longer chainstays when sagged, so it's not lacking any stability.
Anyway, that's a roundabout way of saying that although conceptually I like these bikes like the Pole and Geometron that are really pushing the boundaries of geometry, I'm on the fence as to whether it's a good thing for me as a rider. I'm good at going fast over rough stuff, it's actually when it's tight and twisty that I'm not so good on a bike (despite that being most of the riding I do!)
bigjim - So in conclusion, the article is rubbish, the bike is rubbish, and no bikes are long or slack enough for the stw experts?
Yes, no, not at all. I genuinely do like the bike but the small is too short and the medium is too long for me.
The reach on a SC Hightower is 10mm longer, on a Transition Smuggler its 17mm longer and the Kona Process 29mm longer all for similar seat tube sizes. Surely we cant be saying +/- 15mm is long.
I should have added some more 😛 faces, I was being quite tongue in cheek 😛
or was I
Saw the article and thought it'd make a lovely replacement for the Codeine. Don't know why everyone seems to think that longer is without question better, I find the short-ish reach of the Codeine allows me to muscle it around tight stuff easily enough and keeps it nice and poppy whilst still monster-trucking with the best if them.
Then I saw the price and decided I best just get fitter.
Lol at chestrockwell being unable to read. I'll summarise it for the stupid amongst us...
Always worth checking auto correct before calling people stupid. 😉
There will always be a point when any extreme goes past the point of being useful. Bikes can only get so much longer, lower and slacker before big compromises will have to be accepted. The fact people are having to use shorter and shorter crank arms points to this IMO.
Most of the current breed of 120/160mm 650b or 29er seem to be decent all rounders. Going too LLS will reduce the bike to niche and a tool for a specific area. Fine if you can afford many bikes, not so much if you can't or don't want to.