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I think the one massive advantage that an LBS has over t'internet.... You can touch stuff
LBS's over the years have had countless sales for me when I've gone in and looked at a pair of shorts I was umming and aahing over at say CRC then strolled into a shop to waste 1/2 hour to find those same shorts and either another brand or the next up in the price scale and bought them there and then.
That and the sale rail !!
If my nearest bike shop did shock/forks/dropper servicing I'd definitely use them.
I think the one massive advantage that an LBS has over t'internet.... You can touch stuff
But even this is dying off. You can buy a handful of stuff you are thinking about buying from CRC, give it a once over at home, then send back the bits you don't want. Browsing in your living room if you like... and more often browsing from a far wider range than available in store at the LBS. Now that Paypal funds don't move anywhere for a few weeks, you aren't even out of pocket to buy a bunch of surplus parts which end up getting returned to just keep the one you want.
This isn't something I'm in the habit of doing and agree that it is nice to see something for the first time in a display case at the LBS... but it is getting harder and harder for a LBS to justify their place for many people I guess
Interesting discussion this.
I guess I'm one of those that is seeing off the lbs. The only time I set foot in one nowadays is if I need something today and can't wait for online delivery. Eg I found a broken spoke on my back wheel on Sunday so nipped down to James's to purchase a replacement. Don't think the 66p I spent will make any difference to their year end position though.
However living in sheffield we seem to have more bike shops than we need with new ones appearing all the time. Somebody must be spending money in there. In recent years we've had EBC and Evans open and most recently a giant store. Obviously none of these is independent but others like the bike tree seem to be doing ok.
There was also someone renting out bike stands and tools by the hour I think (or talk of it) which seems like a novel idea.
I saw some guys wearing "support your LBS" t shirts at the steel city DH last weekend. On the back it said "cos the internet can't fix your bike". So in other words the only people that need LBSs are those that can't or don't want to fix their own bike.... This maybe a small and shrinking customer base? I'm not in that demographic. Last time a bike shop mechanic touched one of my bikes was 2007. And that was to fit a hope BB I'd bought at a price that was cheaper than online. Offered free facing and fitting so I thought why not. Wouldn't have paid for the service though.
I wonder if things will go the way of bookshops? It's my son's 13 birthday tomorrow. On the list of required presents was a certain book. As I was in town on sat I went into waterstones. They hadn't got it in but it was in the warehouse. They could get it in for Wednesday (ie tomorrow, his birthday, a day too late really). As I sat on the bus on the way home I ordered it from amazon to be delivered today. Amazon price was 20%+ cheaper. Even paying for guaranteed delivery it was cheaper than paying RRP on the high street as I'd have needed a second journey into town to get it. Waterstones has quite a busy coffee shop in the back though. And I did browse and "almost" purchased a book that caught my eye which I would never have searched out. On another day I might have spent some money.
Shops need to get people through the door I suppose.
I think the one massive advantage that an LBS has over t'internet.... You can touch stuff
Why would you need to though. Unless its aesthetics (road) why do you need to visually hold, heft etc.
Of course if Amazon actually paid UK taxes, offered their staff more than minimum wage and longer than zero hours contracts, it might be a level playing field and the high street stores may well have been able to meet your needs.
I hate everything that Amazon stands for....
If my nearest bike shop did shock/forks/dropper servicing I'd definitely use them.
Without wishing to appear too rude Hora, it's probably why they don't offer it to you. 😉
I hate everything that Amazon stands for....
But they are annoyingly good at what they do.
But they are annoyingly good at what they do.
Yes, a virtual Argos.
ha 😀
I absolved myself of that particular guilt by getting a coffee from an independent rather than Starbucks next door 😀
My LBS story....
.....had a bad case of stuck pedal with allen key only fitting, tried a few times, realised I didn't have the tools to do it and didn't want to damage anything by excess bodgery. Pootled up to LBS with mind to buy long arm allen key. Mechanic said give it here, I'll get it off for you - 1/2 hr later and 1 broken workshop tool we realised it was going nowhere.
Mechanic said he'd try dismantling pedal, axle in vice, give it some beans - still nothing.
So, warning me worst case is new crank, said he'd try some extreme angle grindery, pop back next day and see if it's done.
Before leaving shop, we checked chainset price from Madison, eeeek nearly £200 RRP, then over to a leading online retailer, almost 1/2 that.
Was given option to order myself and be charged a small fitting fee or go via Madison (with loyal customer discount price) with free fitting.
Next day, phone call saying pedal's out, crank fine come collect your bike and if you bring the new pedals we'll fit them - no charge!
And while bike was there brakes and gears had been fettled 🙂
Was told chain was almost at limit of wear, so new one bought and fitted there and then, total bill - nothing, except for price of chain.
Lunch was indeed bought for the mechanic.
So big up to Switchback Cycles, one small shop working hard for their customers 🙂
Why would you need to though. Unless its aesthetics (road) why do you need to visually hold, heft etc.
Granted for parts you don't need to. For clothing, shoes, helmets etc you do.
For clothing, shoes, helmets etc you do.
...and this is where free returns via Collect+ runs in and sucker punches the LBS in the back of the head.
You can order for free. Can get it cheaper. Try it on in the comfort of your own home, and then send back what you don't want for free via the local shop.
Not sure how LBS can combat that.
... and as I said above, Paypal's "pay after delivery" means you aren't out of pocket either while ordering lots of stuff to try on in the comfort of your own home
You can order for free. Can get it cheaper. Try it on in the comfort of your own home, and then send back what you don't want for free via the local shop.Not sure how LBS can combat that.
you only have to wait two weeks for it to show... 😀
you only have to wait two weeks for it to show...
Wiggle - 2-3 days
CRC - 2-3 days
Merlin - 1-2 days
Amazon - Next day, including Sat/Sun
Tredz - 3-4 months 8)
Argos.
Ah now there's the thing.
The reason I was in town at all was to go to Argos to get the main pressie. Cheaper at Argos than anywhere online.
Maybe a "click and collect" service would work for some of the bigger shops that have online presence as well as being LBS. Beat halfords at their own game. They'd need to get better at getting stuff to shops from the warehouse though.
Wiggle - 2-3 days
PITA if you want to go riding tomorrow. 😉
Tredz - 3-4 months
😆
Maybe a "click and collect" service would work for some of the bigger shops that have online presence as well as being LBS.
Madison did a similar earlier version called Ultimate Pursuits several years ago. Unfortunately it was charging full retail though.
Dannyh,
Julies cycles is the reason why I can fix everything on my bike, they made me feel like a complete dick every time I visited, be it by bring ignored, sneered at or just condescended.
It wouldn't bother me if lbs's disappeared.
Why would you need to though. Unless its aesthetics (road) why do you need to visually hold, heft etc
Trying things on? Like kneepads for example?
As I have stated on here in the past I would LOVE to have a decent Bikeshop to patronise close to but the local ones to me are the aforementioned Julies Cycles in Leicester (15 min drive and useless) and Pedal Power in Loughborough (circa 20min drive and mediocre.)
So I tend to give my trade to Merlin/Wiggle/Superstar/On-One for "normal stuff", Charlie the Bikemonger for niche stuff and ebay for small random things.
With regard to returning things Collect+ makes this very very simple indeed, so things like shoes you can order 3 pairs and return 2. My Collect+ place is in my village.
You can order for free. Can get it cheaper. Try it on in the comfort of your own home, and then send back what you don't want for free via the local shop.Not sure how LBS can combat that.
tell you how hot you are looking?
hora - Member
You can order for free. Can get it cheaper. Try it on in the comfort of your own home, and then send back what you don't want for free via the local shop.
Not sure how LBS can combat that.you only have to wait two weeks for it to show...
Or longer if you have bought from Dave Hinde...eh Hora? 😉
[recollects a very old thread on Chocolatefoot]
tell you how hot you are looking?
Hmm. Could work. Maybe have some touching.
PITA if you want to go riding tomorrow.
Look at it as punishment for bad planning 😀
Loved Dave Hinde. Its very hard to find someone who will be blatantly rude to you. Dave H fills this niche to perfection.
We should have a national windup Hinde day.
I remember I rang up his store and popped him on speaker phone before a ride and asked where my forks were. It was 😆 and mildly annoying to boot as his price was by far the cheapest so I had to wait..
I bet nowadays people just call up their credit card company and claim fraud/ask for a charge-back for goods still not received.
Bizarrely the wheel I also ordered from DH turned out to be very well built.
...and this is where free returns via Collect+ runs in and sucker punches the LBS in the back of the head.You can order for free. Can get it cheaper. Try it on in the comfort of your own home, and then send back what you don't want for free via the local shop.
Not sure how LBS can combat that.
Of course once CRC is the only show in town, watch prices inevitably escalate...
Of course once CRC is the only show in town, watch prices inevitably escalate...
They never will be. They had that possibility then ****ed it up with wrong stock figures and erratic delivery.
hora - Member
They never will be. They had that possibility then **** it up with wrong stock figures and erratic delivery.
Yes, this sort of buyer has a long memory and buys on loyalty only 🙄
B&Q have killed nearly all DIY shops in my city, it'll never be quite the same for bikes, but please tell me you have heard of amazon's long term goals?
Always good to hear some local (to me) riders and their experiences of the abomination that is Julie's Cycles.
Pedal Power (I would say) are better than mediocre. They are a nice bunch and have got me out of a couple of situations involving planned days out that nearly didn't happen due to my (and other bike retailers) incompetence. I have to balance that up, though, with their tendency to under-estimate turnaround times and their 'wheel man'.
I think they are a bit too eager to please with maintenance jobs and don't always give a realistic timescale.
Their 'wheel man' was poor - he can certainly make a wheel straight again, but then so can I - what he couldn't do was make a wheel straight [u]and[/u] evenly tensioned so it went out of true in no time afterwards (and no big hits).
On balance I like them, but I find doing stuff myself satisfying and I like learning about how bits of my bike work in the process.
Julie's Cycles, on the other hand, are a collective nasty piece of work. I will NEVER use them again.
Loved Dave Hinde. Its very hard to find someone who will be blatantly rude to you...I remember I rang up his store and popped him on speaker phone before a ride and asked where my forks were. It was and mildly annoying to boot as his price was by far the cheapest so I had to wait..
Are there no irony klaxons going off?
Having lived in a number of cities, I can name a few bike shops who I feel no guilt ignoring for CRC speedyness having been sneered at and argued with (and nearly gad a fight in one, started by staff over a thread posted on here about them being condescending to my OH, you know who you are) Exeter however is saturated with bike shops, and they are all great. Only thing they lose out on is stock volume. There are only so many saddles one shop can keep in at any one time!
An LBS near me charges 1.5 X the normal hourly rate for labour when they fit something purchased elsewhere...........Is that common practice?
No, but maybe something for you to think about?
An LBS near me charges 1.5 X the normal hourly rate for labour when they fit something purchased elsewhere...........Is that common practice?
I've heard of it, but never seen it in practice.
An LBS near me charges 1.5 X the normal hourly rate for labour when they fit something purchased elsewhere...........Is that common practice
Hopefully it is true and they go under because folks have the common sense to go elsewhere....some shops buy from CRC also
Does anyone get this - my local shops stock clothes. Ok, sometimes not the brands I really want but Altura Endura generally good for me BUT they never have anything ok my size. They will always have a small and a XL but never medium or large. And they want to to pay for it upfront to order it in - and I'm never sure if I can get a refund if they don't fit right. That drives me to go to Evans or similar. Why do they order in the extreme sizes? Pretty obvious that most buy the average sizes cos they are never in stock!!
Popular sizes in 'being popular' shocker...
Plus most lbs will only get one delivery a week.
Hopefully it is true and they go under because folks have the common sense to go elsewhere....some shops buy from CRC also
Actually, I don't see the problem with this. If the LBS fits something you've bought elsewhere, then it'll be the LBS that gets pestered if theres a problem; charging extra for the hassle factor doesn't strike me as bad business.
In any case, the LBSs I've dealt with tend not to charge for fitting stuff I've bought from them; when this is taken into account, CRC isn't necessarily cheaper (assuming CRC can actually get what I want; I gather a lot of distributors won't sell to them...)
I shall be ordering around £400 worth of parts for my bike I'm collecting tomorrow, pretty much all of which will be from CRC. Typically I'd fit whatever I could, then get things like pressing bearings, truing wheels or facing done by the LBS (fred williams Wolverhampton-brilliant guys, good availability and good prices) and purchase bikes from Leisure Lakes, local and do 0% finance on a comprehensive range of bikes.
Leisure Lakes I feel have played a massive trump card with their demo day's, the discount through VIP membership coupled with the 5% extra for demo's should retain custom. Where else could you get a no obligation test ride on such a good variety of bikes, get 10% in store credit back and 0% finance ? Top marks for them for doing it, a fine showcase of how the LBS (well sort of) can hit the internet-only firms where it hurts.
I went in Julie's Cycles once. It was a long time ago
I went in Julie's Cycles once. It was a long time ago
It reminds me of the hifi shop sketch on Not The Nine O'Clock News.
"Ere, how many watts do you need, mate?"
That probably won't work, but just type "not the nine o'clock news gramophone" into YouTube.
You can then experience the Julie's Cycles customer service model for yourself.
If I go into my lbs, I rarely leave without buying something, even it's is a bottle of lube or some sealant. They offer good advice, no bullsh**t and have time to deal with browsers, I appreciate this and reward them with my custom. 5 min advice etc =£5 sale, seems fair to me. I still buy some stuff online but only if the stuff that is ridiculously cheap like pedals. They have a club scheme (with strava top trumps!) £5 per year gets you 12% off parts and clothing! that evens things up with crc/wiggle on nearly everything, particularly brands that don't allow significant discounting (endura etc).
As for returns making buying soft goods just as easy that is boll**x in my experience. I bought some shoes from wiggle in the sale, they didn't fit, the box they came in got wet in the post so I had to get a new box and repackage, tried to order the next size up, out of stock, waited for refund. Tried again with some other shoes from crc, same thing. Went to lbc tried some on, they fitted so I bought them, took 5 min and cost me about £10 more than online. Easily worth it for the amount of time wasting I had spent faffing with returns.
The moral is if your lbs is crap just use it for trying stuff on, if it's good spend some money with them, it's worth the small amount extra.
I agree with the OP, that is blatant pi55 taking.
My LBS story.........had a bad case of stuck pedal with allen key only fitting, tried a few times, realised I didn't have the tools to do it and didn't want to damage anything by excess bodgery. Pootled up to LBS with mind to buy long arm allen key. Mechanic said give it here, I'll get it off for you - 1/2 hr later and 1 broken workshop tool we realised it was going nowhere.
Mechanic said he'd try dismantling pedal, axle in vice, give it some beans - still nothing.
So, warning me worst case is new crank, said he'd try some extreme angle grindery, pop back next day and see if it's done.
Before leaving shop, we checked chainset price from Madison, eeeek nearly £200 RRP, then over to a leading online retailer, almost 1/2 that.Was given option to order myself and be charged a small fitting fee or go via Madison (with loyal customer discount price) with free fitting.
Next day, phone call saying pedal's out, crank fine come collect your bike and if you bring the new pedals we'll fit them - no charge!
And while bike was there brakes and gears had been fettled
Was told chain was almost at limit of wear, so new one bought and fitted there and then, total bill - nothing, except for price of chain.Lunch was indeed bought for the mechanic.
So big up to Switchback Cycles, one small shop working hard for their customers
With this type of business sense, I doubt they will be there much longer....
An LBS near me charges 1.5 X the normal hourly rate for labour when they fit something purchased elsewhere...........Is that common practice?
It could be seen as the only charging 2/3 of the normal labour rate for stuff bought from them .
The moral is if your lbs is crap just use it for trying stuff on,
Rather like buying a crate of beer at Tescos and sitting in your local pub expecting to drink it because it's cheaper than the beer they sell there .