Yep, I can't say colostrum helped, but if I did something silly again in the future... I would be buying some more colostrum!
Yep, I can't say that colostrum had any effect, but I was amazed by the combination of it and good rehab, so much so, I would buy it again if I ever managed to do something so silly in the future!
Years back I had a back injury that the doctor told me meant I'd not likely row again which was pretty tough news as I was pretty serious about the sport to say the least. Two weeks later I was back in the boat (though admittedly I was careful and with hindsight it would have been sensible to leave it a bit longer). I didn't use colostrum. Prognosis from doctors are typically just an average - some people defy the odds and recover faster.
Once again, my point is that the product might work but that's all we know - there just doesn't seem to be proof that it does and the AIS results seem pretty damning for me - milkman, how do you respond to them? If they tried the product I'm pretty confident that if they thought it worked they'd still be using it.
A reminder of what they said:
• Colostrum is a protein-rich substance secreted in breast milk in the first few days after a mother has given birth. Colostrum is rich in immunoglobulins and insulin-like growth factors (IGFs).
• The gut of a baby has "leaky" junctions that allow it to absorb proteins, like immunoglobulins to develop its own immune system. By contrast, most experts believe that adults do not have “leaky” junctions and hence are unable to absorb these proteins.
• Commercial colostrum supplements are typically produced from bovine (cow) sources. These supplements are intended for chronic use and are claimed to improve exercise performance and recovery, and possibly to have beneficial effects on body composition (increasing lean muscle tissue).
• To date, a small number of studies have been conducted and published in peer-reviewed literature. Although these studies are well-controlled and have involved long-term supplementation with several commercially available colostrum supplements, [b]they have been unable to show consistent or universal improvement of athletic performance. However, one study has shown that a short-lived benefit may occur immediately after periods of intensified training due to a reduction in residual fatigue[/b] (Shing et al. 2006).
• There is little evidence of an enhanced outcome of training on changes in body mass or body composition.
• The possibility of a reduced risk of illness with colostrum supplementation still requires careful long-term research.
• A mechanism by which colostrum supplementation may benefit athletes remains speculative. While a few studies indicate that colostrum supplementation increases concentrations of serum IGF-1 and salivary immunoglobulins, other studies have failed to demonstrate these findings (Mero et al. 2002).
• In summary, further research is required to demonstrate that colostrum supplementation benefits performance and to identify the athlete group most likely to benefit from supplementation.Situations for use in Sport
• Due to the lack of current evidence for use in sport, colostrum should be used with discretion.
• It may be beneficial to improve performance within a few days of completing a high intensity training block but this benefit is diminished after 1 week of rest.
Anyway, I have a PhD to write... so I will let you all argue about Colostrum some more.
But to conclude, I like it!
I am in support of Milkman here,Purely Ancedotal evidence, but a year ago I managed a full laceration of the vastus medialis muscle (google/wikipedia it) from a 203mm disk brake rotor which needed an air ambulance and surgery to stitch the muscle back together.
I have the luxury of working with some excellent scientists (at Aberystwyth University - no hiding here!) and I consumed colostrum everyday for around a month whilst my physio worked her magic.
Within TWO months I was back on my road bike with (almost) full function of my leg... from COMPLETELY chopping a muscle in half!
I can't say for sure that the colostrum helped, it may have been the physio, maybe I am a just quick healer... but whatever it was, I was opperational somewhat sooner than the 'at least six months' that the surgon suggested!
Jon
There you go LabMonkey 🙂
Cheers Foxyrider!
It's a lot like those people that say they had an accident when wearing a helmet and the helmet saved their lives... Unless you have one without, how do you prove that?
🙂
gives you cancer though
Insulin like growthfactor I is on the ingredients list...
[i]Oncology. 2002;63(4):317-32.
The role of the IGF system in cancer: from basic to clinical studies and clinical applications.
Moschos SJ, Mantzoros CS.
Division of Endocrinology, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Harvard Medical School, Boston, Mass 02215, USA.
Abstract
Insulin-like growth factors (IGFs) are important mediators of growth, development, and survival, are synthesized by almost any tissue in the body, and their action is modulated by a complex network of molecules, including binding proteins, proteases and receptors, which all comprise the IGF system. Evidence from in vitro and animal studies suggests that overexpression of IGFs by cancer cells and/or the nearby stroma as well as the type IGF-I receptor by the cancer cells may play a significant role in establishing a transformed phenotype in an increasing number of malignancies. More specifically, IGFs may promote cell cycle progression and inhibition of apoptosis either by directly associating with other growth factors or indirectly by interacting with other molecular systems which have an established role in carcinogenesis and cancer promotion, such as the steroid hormones and integrins. In addition, a growing number of epidemiologic studies suggest that increased serum levels of IGFs and/or altered levels of their binding proteins are associated with increased risk for developing several malignancies. These data indicate that IGF dysregulation should now be considered as an important independent factor for cancer risk, and a potential target for novel antineoplastic therapies and/or preventative strategies in high-risk groups.[/i]
It's a lot like those people that say they had an accident when wearing a helmet and the helmet saved their lives... Unless you have one without, how do you prove that?
True but it at least seems a sensible option to stop you gouging big chunks of flesh out ya skull 😉
It's a lot like those people that say they had an accident when wearing a helmet and the helmet saved their lives... Unless you have one without, how do you prove that?
Very true!
But as a research scientist, albeit in a slightly different field (cardio-respiratory physilogy, or oxygen uptake kinetics to be more precise) I woud be convinced enough by the theoretical background to take a chance on Colostrum... 'maybe' the evidence is not strong enough to date to say fo sure whether it works...
But I would take the chance on it, rather than not, if I have another severe accident. I would not however buy it long term as the cost is too high as a preventative suppliment.
My two cents, and look, I am avoiding my work again!
Cheers, Jon
Well that is your personal choice but someone is making money out of it - that is the irritating part of it from my point of view.
I could suggest buying a special blend of oils from me that may help prevent premature hair loss. I have made it up from supermarket oils to my secret recipe - its called an unsubstanitated claim - would you not be a little miffed if you had spent £100's on my product to find out it didn't work and I had bought a villa in the Maldives with the proceeds 🙂
The above is hypothelitcal and is no way related to Neovite colostrum 🙂
I have no problem selling something that has a well proven track record, however odd it sounds. BTW to be fair is there any other company out there selling colostrum for this purpose?
Wanna see my new bike build ? It's 79% stiffer than my previous frameWell that is your personal choice but someone is making money out of it - that is [s]the irritating part of it from my point of view[/s] capitalism.
Point taken SP 😉
Wow - this argument hasn't broken out into swearing and slagging people off personally yet?
I could suggest buying a special blend of oils from me that may help prevent premature hair loss. I have made it up from supermarket oils to my secret recipe
Hmmmm...
its called an unsubstanitated claim
Yes, but I 'understand' how growth factors etc work, and I 'believe' that colostrum cotains such growth factors... and therefore the 'unsubstanitated' evidence is strong enough in MY OPINION to take the chance!
Is it not similar to say a tyre manufacturer suggesting that a certain tyre works better then another (of their own brand) in certain conditions... then people go out and buy said 'better' tyre on the back of their advertising?
BTW I also know how growth factors work - doesn't mean They work in-situ from an animal like a cow in humans?
* Neither natural nor synthetic bovine growth hormone has been found to affect human growth hormone receptors.
* IGF-1 concentrations are slightly higher (to variable degrees, depending on the study) in milk from cows treated with rBGH than in untreated milk. This variability is presumed to be much less than the normal variation of IGF-1 in cow’s milk attributable to parity and stage of lactation, but more investigation is needed.
* IGF-1 in milk is not denatured (inactivated) by pasteurization. The extent to which intact, pharmacologically active IGF-1 is absorbed through the human gastrointestinal tract remains uncertain.
* One study estimated that the additional amount of IGF-1 that might be absorbed by humans, assuming no degradation and complete absorption, represents 0.8% of normal gastrointestinal secretion and 0.09% of the daily production of IGF-1 in adults.
* Before approving the use of rBGH in 1993, the FDA calculated a worst case scenario that assumed that an infant drinks 1.5 liters (1 liter is approximately 1 quart) of milk daily with complete absorption of intact IGF-1 protein, and the maximum increase in IGF-1. Under these conditions, the rBGH treated milk would contribute far less than 1% of the infant's normal daily production of IGF-1.
Have you any papers that prove the bovine growth factors you quote have a significant effect on the cell receptors in humans? Did you know that human IGF-1 is structually different from bovine IGF-1? Do you have training in the medical field?
Some of the components in the clostrum are clearly incredibly useful in post natal infants, however the thought of introducing things like gonadotrophin and assorted growth hormones has got to be a borderline situation with regards to doping. I'm just waiting until testing becomes even more sensitive and we will see what happens as it will be near impossible for something like this to not contain minute levels of banned substances. I await some more contador style revelations with interest.
Oh and Kimbers do some work you idle git.
Lab Monkey - my issue is with people making claims that is not borne out by the research and claiming it is.
It seems like a lot of new research - you chuck something at a problem and see if you gets results. Not a problem if its pure research but if there is money involved i.e. funding of the research to find the best way of selling that product then unless its honest and double blind and of a significant size to be statistically significant then I am always sceptical !!!
! Does anyone else feel less of a man coz they haven't gone out and trained till they simultaneously puked and filled their shorts?execise induced diarhoea and vomiting
kimbers
IGF-1 is a normal secretion in saliva. It acts to trigger gut repair when its receptors are exposed as in the case with ulceration. EGF has similar properties. These molecules are too large to cross the gut barrier to the bloodstream.
Give me a call and I'll put you in touch with research gastroenterologist Prof Raymond Playford who has studied the clinical use of growth factors to heal gut damage or at least you should check his publications on PubMed.
here's a video interview:
No need to worry about long term exposure either. For millenia Kenya's Masai have drunk fresh ox blood, raw milk and fresh colostrum from cattle and goats, all very rich in growth factors, without dying out from cancers. In fact they are famously successful as pastoralists and live to great ages with a reputation as top endurance runners and warriors. Not many are scientists though, I guess you can't have it all.
! Does anyone else feel less of a man coz they haven't gone out and trained till they simultaneously puked and filled their shorts?
I've found that I black out before that happens...
Blimey - he says nothing - he is just excited in investigating it - apart from saying it protects the gut from exercised induced "leakyness" !!! Come one you gotta do better than that?
BTW are all of the the growth factors not denatured by drying and pasturisation Milkman?
Not a problem if its pure research but if there is money involved i.e. funding of the research to find the best way of selling that product then unless its honest and double blind and of a significant size to be statistically significant then I am always sceptical !!!
Careful here - At Aberystwyth University we are all about the science!
Do you have training in the medical field?
I am not an expert in this field, I have read a few papers and spoken to some more informed collegues about this subject.
My area of research involves human bioenergetics and exercise tolerance - but don't get me started on that or we will be here all day!
Wow - this argument hasn't broken out into swearing and slagging people off personally yet?
I am a polite chap, so i won't be drwan into such behaviour!
As Milkman is has returned I will let him fight his own corner as he is moreinformed on this subject!
I am a polite chap, so i won't be drwan into such behaviour!
I wasn't taking about you LM 😉 Can I ask who funded the research?
i'm a little confused.
is this product just powdered milk - from a cow that has just given birth so not what you get in Sainsbury’s, but still powdered milk?
heatstroke is the result of gut leakiness when poisons (enterotoxins) enter the bloodstream. enterotoxins can lead to organ failure and heart attack and can trigger autoimmune disorders. its about time you guys stopped playing around and took this seriously. give me a call, it's the best offer you'll get today.
Maybe a few more success stories will help you arch-sceptics.
No - because you don't know if they'd have succeeded without the colostrum, clearly.
Science FAIL 🙂
I wasn't taking about you LM Can I ask who funded the research?
For that particular study I believe that Neovite provided the Colostrum and the study itself was funded by the University - But I may be wrong as I was not part of that research group.
But then, who funds the project SHOULD NOT matter - if it doesn't work then it doesn't work - end of story!
I do agree that claims should not be made on products without scientific evidence to back up such claims.
As molgrips says, that's the problem - there seems to be little/no proof that it actually works and having top athletes use it proves nothing no matter how many you can get to endorse it, particularly as I would expect them to be paid in some way to do so (correct me if I'm wrong on that), particularly when something like the AIS comments as it has. What's your response to the AIS's summary?
Milkman - Memberheatstroke is the result of gut leakiness when poisons (enterotoxins) enter the bloodstream. enterotoxins can lead to organ failure and heart attack and can trigger autoimmune disorders. its about time you guys stopped playing around and took this seriously. give me a call, it's the best offer you'll get today.
Now that is just bullshine of the highest order.
heatstroke is the result of gut leakiness when poisons (enterotoxins) enter the bloodstream. enterotoxins can lead to organ failure and heart attack and can trigger autoimmune disorders. its about time you guys stopped playing around and took this seriously. give me a call, it's the best offer you'll get today.
Oh dear, Heat stroke is not the result in gut leaking it is due to hyperthermia and the resulting disturbances in physiology due to the function of enzymes and similar biochemical pathways due to the narrow tollerance our bodies have to altered internal temperature?
I think you mean "Some of the gastrointestinal symptoms of acute exertional heat stroke, such as vomiting, diarrhea, and gastrointestinal bleeding, may be caused by barrier dysfunction and subsequent endotoxemia. Ultraendurance athletes have been found to have significantly increased plasma endotoxin levels. Endotoxin stimulates many inflammatory cytokines, which in turn may cause multiorgan dysfunction. Furthermore, monkeys treated with oral antibiotics prior to induction of heat stroke do not become endotoxemic."
Looks like you have been scanning Wikipedia but failing on the interpretation Milkman?
I have never heard such a load of cr@p in my life - even worse than sugary probiotic drinks!!
Haven't read any of Foxy's posts after reading this as the above statement is ill-informed crap so the rest probably is too. My ex works for one of these 'probiotic' company's. The evidence of efficacy is huge in reduction of c.diff, G.I. upsets etc. which is why sales are rocketing in hospitals.
Woody - were not talking about pro-biotics here - which do have efficacy in the right field i.e. establishment of normal gastrointestinal flora in diseased patients surely? Colostrum is not a pro-biotic Woody and in my opinion healthy people DO NOT NEED TO USE PROBIOTIC DRINKS! Perhaps if you read this thread you might actually know what we are arguing about?
The evidence of efficacy is huge in reduction of c.diff, G.I. upsets etc. which is why sales are rocketing in hospitals.
Probiotics for treatment of Clostridium difficile-associated colitis in adults yes, normal healthy people no?
Oh I give up.............................................
[center][img] 
[/img][/center]
Not exactly up to date, the AIS statement was published in 2008 so doesn't include the Aberystyth study. Australian user, swimmer Leisel Jones is on the record as endorsing colostrum produced there as part of her nutrition, but I guess that won't count either.
I provide free product to universities for their studies but do not pay for the trials, these costs are borne by the universities.
I would not pay any money for endorsements as this will render their opinions worthless.
0800 24 25 123, still no callers. go on
On the matter of gut permeability leading to heat stroke, we've done the human clinical trials to show cause and effect, we've done the lab work to show the effect of incubating gut cells at 39 celsius and we established the beneficial effect of colostrum both in the incubated gut cells and in the human study. you're going to have to wait publication or you're going to have to call, it's up to you.
Most research papers are concluded with the words:
"more research in required"
I think with bovibe colostrum, this is also the case!
Perhaps if you read this thread you might actually know what we are arguing about?
Perhaps if you had read my post you would know why I haven't.
gut permeability leads to heatstroke? Really? Nothing to do with heat then?
Piffle
[i]swimmer Leisel Jones is on the record as endorsing colostrum[/i]
but that's the problem - random endorsements by people who my or may not have had success without a product is not 'proof'.
How many people have taken this product and then failed to gain an Olympic medal?
Heat leads to gut permeability. Permeability can lead to toxic shock from enterotoxins. Exercise at high aerobic levels leads to a rise in core temperature even at moderate ambient temperatures. We recorded an average 2 degree rise in core temperature after running for 20 minutes at 80 %VO2 max. Try it yourself. You will need to use the thermometer by the dark route.
You can check for more on PubMed science database. There are animal studies showing permeability effects at 41 degrees body temperature, but I'm not sure I'd want to push human subjects that far. Similar results in Alaskan huskies.
so far nobody has rung. this must be embarassing for you guys. It's STF who are are coming across badly now, are you just anonymous nay-sayers.
I'll bite 😉
The onus is on you to prove what you're claiming - not on anyone else to disprove it.
I won't call the number because frankly I don't really feel the need to do so and probably wouldn't really gain much from it, not being an expert in the field. If you had proper 'proof' that it worked you'd be quoting it wouldn't you?
That however doesn't stop me making the cases with regards to why it's not proven which I don't think it is (and I'll make the case again that I'm not saying that it definitly doesn't work to some extent) and I'm genuinely interested to know why the AIS came to the conclusions I posted if you're saying that other research disagrees (or is it just that it might disagree?). Also one of the points made by the AIS was that effects that were observed didn't last which as I read the Aberystwyth University study doesn't seem to go any way towards disproving since it was run as a one-off.
Finally, the classic 'well X says it works and they're a pro athlete' line which you keep using is the kind of thing that usually makes people sceptical since it proves nothing.
double post
watch San bushmen of the Kalahari desert track an antelope until it collapses from heat stroke. It cannot dissipate the heat it is generating and it's wearing a fur coat. Point made?
It's that kind of 'proof' that makes people believe that you're selling snake oil I'd suggest...
video schmideo you are dicing with death!
[url= http://www.****/health/article-328863/Milk-linked-ovarian-cancer.html ]http://www.****/health/article-328863/Milk-linked-ovarian-cancer.html[/url]
Milkman - it may be the case that a mammal will die if over heated I can't see how eating dried up cows milk is going to stop that though?
your argument seems to be;
a) mammals that overheat and die have 'perforated' guts
and
b) my product blocks up the perforations
therefore
c) you won't die of overheating if you've consumed my product.
and as per clubber - you're the one makign the claims, me having a chat with a Prof somewhere isn't the same as you producing proper evidence of 'double blind' clinical tests that prove your point.
My Nan put loads of salt on her food and swore it worked well for her. She lived 'til she was 87 but it doesn't mean I would if I did the same...
Well, I've actually read through all this and my opinion re Colostrum usage hasn't changed a bit.
I read the artical on the front page with scepticism and nothing here has given any form of logical proof that anything in colostrum is of any use after the first few hours of life, above and beyond it being another form of high energy "drink".
Milkman - I'm quite shocked that, as a spokespersons for your company, you are so aggressive and dismissive regarding other arguments. Simply supplying more and more anecdotal evidence and goading people into calling you does nothing to support your claims, or enhance the image of your company. Are you really suprised no-one has phoned you?
watch San bushmen of the Kalahari desert track an antelope until it collapses from heat stroke. It cannot dissipate the heat it is generating and it's wearing a fur coat. Point made?
Classic example I'm afraid - "evidence" that does nothing to support your claims. You've successfully proven that animals can collapse of exhaustion!
Not just the Masai, but throughout the world, people have lived by keeping cattle and goats for the last 10,000 years so it's not that this is something so new like soya beans, let's say. And if you resort to the Daily Mail for your references it's a sure sign your on weak ground.
pick up the phone, I can send you the abstract on colostrum, heat stress and permeability that was presented to the British Society of Gastroenterology at their spring conference this year.
Milkman - what's not clear is why taking your product is somehow better than anything else that we as mountain bikers should choose to take? Will I ride further, faster or just not get a permeable gut?
Why is a diet that nomadic tribes have lived on for 10,000 years because, frankly, they're nomadic and therefore couldn't plant crops is of relevance to someone eating a 'western' diet is beyond me other than to allow you to say 'look drink only cows milk and blood and you'll be fine'?
Not just the Masai, but throughout the world, people have lived by keeping cattle and goats for the last 10,000 years so it's not that this is something so new like soya beans, let's say. And if you resort to the Daily Mail for your references it's a sure sign your on weak ground.
Ok, here's where I stop reading this thread. You've clearly been backed into a bit of a corner and are now spouting random facts that make no sense in relation to your product's claims. So various nomadic tribes live in hot conditions and live off cattle/goats. Where does that say that powdered colostrum helps their lifestyle or health? They keep cattle that produce colostrum for the first 24-48hrs of lactation.........so?
I won't be buying into your product so......I'm out!
fbk
if you read the scorn and abuse at the beginning of this thread based on no knowledge or experience whatever I'm sure you would want to respond in like vein.
With regard to AIS, I can only speak with confidence on the study results that we get with the product that we supply and the feedback from independent researchers with whom we work directly.
My offer to discuss the current studies or any other matter offline is entirely genuine and you should not feel intimidated by an invitation to call. Those of you who have published their own research know that it cannot be put in the public domain prior to publication.
Well, I've actually read through all this and my opinion re Colostrum usage hasn't changed a bit.
I read the artical on the front page with scepticism and nothing here has given any form of logical proof that anything in colostrum is of any use after the first few hours of life, above and beyond it being another form of high energy "drink".Milkman - I'm quite shocked that, as a spokespersons for your company, you are so aggressive and dismissive regarding other arguments. Simply supplying more and more anecdotal evidence and goading people into calling you does nothing to support your claims, or enhance the image of your company. Are you really suprised no-one has phoned you?
Ill go along with that - I was tempted to give you a call but I dont think Im quite smart enough to be able to deal with your scientific marketing spiel. So Ill just run with my gut feeling (pun intended) & I smell a rat..Your style & approach are off, your dismissal of evidence that is contrary, some of your "proof" (most if Im honest) is anecdotal at best & the peach of it was this
offering it up like it was some kind of indisputable proof of its efficacy..Perhaps when the product has been reviewed positively & you have stronger proof then come back? Till then..One study on exercise induced gut permeability and its prevention has been accepted for peer review by the American Journal of Physiology
ps Im as open-minded as anyone but something about this feels wrong..
bk
if you read the scorn and abuse at the beginning of this thread based on no knowledge or experience whatever I'm sure you would want to respond in like vein.
Ah - this is where you are wrong. a few of us have some knowledge and the ability to read research coupled with a dislike of snake oil
When you claim things as proven by research that the most superficial of readings of that research shows very much to have not been proven you open yourself up to scorn. Couple this with utter nonsense such as the stuff over heatstroke and the using athletes endorsements as "proof" then you weaken your case.
You might have something, you might not, but nothing you have shown us is any sort of proof at all. Some positive indications in the research of slight effects. Some negative.
Damn - I wasn't going to comment any more!
if you read the scorn and abuse at the beginning of this thread based on no knowledge or experience whatever I'm sure you would want to respond in like vein.
Unfortunately that's where your main problem lies - I know at least one of the initial posters, I know their profession, and I know they're in a very good position to make scientific/clinical judgements on such things. I also agree with some of the points made and you have done nothing to support your arguements against them.
Oh, and I also have some knowledge of these matters, all be it fairly limited, coming from a (veterinary) medical background and I make my judgements accordingly.
I see your snake oil objections don't stop you taking Maximuscle's money to advertise their Provite colostrum on this site.
Nowt to do with the posters and is that a google ad?
No it's a paid for advert
It's gone a bit quiet. I suspect if Maximuscle, your esteemed advertisers, had sent you a tub of their Provite colostrum to review, you would not have started a thread in this tone, commercial suicide.
Milkman - I suggest that you are confusing the owners of the site and the posters on the forum. We have no control of the adverts on the site, the owners of the site have not posted on this thread.
My milkman does potatoes and orange juice AND Christmas Hampers; I think he's got rather more going for him to be honest.
crikey, I'm sure he "does" more than that - I've seen the films
You've not seen my milkman....
milkman - don't confuse a lack of response with any sort of agreement/placation.
Firstly maximuscle advertising, site based or not, has nothing to do with the users of this forum. Secondly, that's not something most people on here would use, regardless of it's pros/cons - I suggest you stop trying to divert attention.
And thirdly, it's evening and people have better things to do than write on here (unless they're still stuck at work....like me... 🙁 )
....must.....stop....posting......
milkman - don't confuse a lack of response with any sort of agreement/placation.
Also, adding more and more youtube clips and athlete recommendations does not constitute peer reviewed scientific evidence.
Nothing new is coming to the table and so everyone is BORED of this thread and you have done little to convince people of the benifits of colostrum, but also more importantly, of [u]YOUR[/u] brand!
I all honesty, I was on your side Milkman, now I am less sure.
(p.s. This is my personal opinion only)
I suspect he's not even a real milkman.
crikey
If your enquiry as to my credentials is genuine, I have a background in microbiology, veterinary pathology and food control. I have been an invited speaker on colostrum at an international biotechnology conference for which proceedings are available and I am a co-author of a paper on another functional food that aids gut barrier maintenance, which has been accepted by the British Journal of Nutrition. I have worked in the dairy industry for ten years and collaborate with the UK's leading independent dairy and functional food researchers.
Milky:
[img] 
[/img]
I pity your partner, life must be a riot!
I'll bite again.
I don't doubt your credentials however:
1. What does background mean. I have a background in bike mechanics but that doesn't make me an expert.
2. I AM a veterinary pathologist and have never heard of you before? And my colleague is a Clinical Microbiologist and hasn't either.
3. You sell colostrum so understandable you are invited to speak about your product. Proceedings don't really cut the mustard in the academic world really do they? I have had stuff in proceeding booklets before but this has not always been taken further to a proper citable article?
4. Just because you have submitted a paper doesn't mean it will be accepted.
5. Being an author on a paper would be expected if you had contributed to it in any significant degree? However a persons contribution is difficult to assess from a reviewers point of view no?
My point is bragging about your credentials to people not "in the know" may sound impressive but I am afraid I am not!
IME the people who shout the most, know the least!
My education was for the food industry not clinical or medical practice and dealt with the physiology and pathology of food animals. As a veterinary pathologist you will know that race horses suffer from gut ulceration when raced or trained hard. They have large body masses relative to their surface area and limited ability to sweat and a fur coat. Just like the Kudu in the Attenborough clip. Hence the rise in core temperature. Running horses for distances greater than would be natural for a flight animal induces this. Another case of heatinduced gut cell apoptosis. Race horses can also die suddenly as a result of endotoxemia at the end of a race or in the stable afterwards. I keep trying to find ways to illustrate this point to you. Would you venture an opinion on horses now it's in your field?
Milkman - teh heat is causing the gut issues not the gut issues causing the heat. So your basic premise is wrong.
You magic stuff no matter what its action cannot and does not cure heatstroke. It treats one symptom of heatstroke perhaps
So, I'm going to die horribly if I [i]don't[/i] consume your product and then ride for a long time and get a bit sweaty?
All types of horses "including race horses suffer from gastric ulceration" - there I corrected it for you 🙄
Another case of heatinduced gut cell apoptosis. Race horses can also die suddenly as a result of endotoxemia at the end of a race or in the stable afterwards.
Oh dear 🙄 you really are cutting and pasting from Wiki arn't you 😯
Have you references for heat induced enterocyte apoptosis in horses cause by exercise then? Oh and I presume you mean that hyperthermia caused by intense exercise in horses causes significant disease? And that horses that die suddenly after exercise is due to enterotoxaemia induced by exercising? Have you a reference for that as well?
No, the consequence of heat stress is gut cell apoptosis. The consequence of gut cell apoptosis is endotoxemia. Endotoxemia is bacterial toxins, digestive enzymes and part digested food fragments entering the portal circulation, overloading the capacity of the mesentreic lymphatic system and the liver to filter out the toxins and their entry into the systemic circulation where thay can induce organ failure. Dr Tony Ashton investigated this and published some ten years ago. He also explored the use of vitamin c to reduce permeability and toxemia, so it's not the first time the topic has been researched.
YOu claimed your potion cured heatstroke. It may treat one symptom of heatstroke. Not the same thing
Endotoxemia is bacterial toxins, digestive enzymes and part digested food fragments entering the portal circulation, overloading the capacity of the mesentreic lymphatic system and the liver to filter out the toxins and their entry into the systemic circulation where thay can induce organ failure. Dr Tony Ashton investigated this and published some ten years ago. He also explored the use of vitamin c to reduce permeability and toxemia, so it's not the first time the topic has been researched.
Absolute rubbish - are you seriously trying to troll me/us - this is garbage!!! Are you really the head of this company or are you infact a Troll as you are very convincing 🙄 You obviously have no biologic science background otherwise you would realise that what you have written is utter utter rubbish!!
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And on that note - I'm out - this truly is a topic I DO NOT WANT to discuss any further with you Milkman!!
You obviously have no biologic science background otherwise you would realise that what you have written is utter utter rubbish!!
According to his [url= http://www.neovite.com/news/article.asp?articleID=20 ]website[/url] he was a manager/owner of a software company, before that a farmhand and has done a course in public health.
A bit more veterinary stuff then and without resorting to insult.
Camels are adapted to high core temperatures of up to 41 celsius without any endotoxemia and without heatstroke. Pretty much any other mammal would die of heatstroke at such a core temperature. Camels secrete heat shock protein in the gut wall to maintain the integrity of the barrier function under these conditions. They also secrete functional proteins in their milk to provide this protection for their young. Your thoughts?
Milkman - I'll try and say this slowly;
Have
you
conducted
any
blind
tests
that
prove
your
product
enhances
an
athletes
performance
?
Not in Camels, Masii worriers, Cows, Deer or T-rex's - just human athletes where there is clinical evidence of a proven positive result of using your product vs a placebo?
My thoughts - you are not addressing basic points. You are arguing against folk ( not me) with afar greater understanding of the biochemistry than you have. You are doing your company a great disservice.
Your potion may help the gut stand this issue with heat and toxins - this means it is [i]a treatment[/i] for one symptom of heatstroke not [i]a cure[/i] for it.
My god, is this still going. I'd have thought you would have the wisdom/dignity to walk away from this one and let it lie.
You really are doing yourself and your product no favours arguing a point that a)you can't really win and b)is of very little relevance to the actual claims your product makes re exercise & endurance.