Hi, I run a race face narrow wide chain ring on both my bikes, both with clutch mechs. On the tracer 2, it's fine with no chain retention, never budges, but on my Stanton ti, with a zee clutch mech, it throws it off all over the bloody place! I'm assuming this is down to the extra battering at the rear end with not having a rear shock to take the impacts, so I put a black spire stinger on as well..... Still threw the chain?! So it looks like a full on 1x10 chain device is the answer, anyone got a carbocage one? They look super pimp, and weigh nowt, so are they as good as they look? Your thoughts please... Cheers si.
I've not found any problems with a clutch mech on a hardtail, nor heard of any more than on fs. Where is it coming off? Top of the ring as you pedal or rattling off the bottom?
One possibility, are the clutches on the different bikes set to the same stiffness?
strange, I run a raceface NW chainring with zee clutch mech on my Ragley blue pig and I haven't dropped the chain once. And that's riding at Greno woods and the like.
Are you sure your chainline is right? Could you be dropping it while back pedalling?
I run a narrow wide without a clutch (but with a bash) on a hardtail. Dropped the chain once in about 6 months. I am not the fastest rider by a long way but I am not exactly the smoothest rider either.
Try a new chain, a KMC one.
Cheers guys, not thought about if it's coming off when back pedalling, I've adjusted the clutch to strengthen it up a bit but that's made no difference, I do run a kmc chain too and it's not that old. It seems to back pedal fine when I'm doing it by hand and it looks in line.... No idea. I've just adapted a superstar plasma chain guide to just a top guide cos the bottom jockey wheel on them seems to clog up all the time and then not spin, so I've hacked it off, see how that goes I guess?
lightweight bash and inner guide, such as a n-gear jumpstop or a Hope guide. That's what I do.
Dropped mine a few times on my 456c hardtail with zee clutch and narrow wide. Definitely not backpedalling. Annoying!
Chainline and chain length are your only variables not explored. Hardtail shouldn't be a factor but having run 1x10 on a few frames and seen some work better than others without fiddling a lot, I would say chainline is key to good performance
Stinger wouldn't be very productive IMO, if you're going to use a guide put it on the top- it doesn't matter than much if it flaps at the bottom because as long as it's on at the top, pedalling'll put it back on the bottom.
I've never needed one, and that includes crashing a ragley hardtail down the fort william dh, but riding style could easily be as big a factor as anything else I reckon. Assuming the chain's as short as it can be anyway (which btw, it should generally be shorter on a hardtail than a susser because of not having to deal with chaingrowth in the suspension design)
I'm having similar issues too, I've probably thrown mine half a dozen times now, hardtail, Zee clutch mech and Works t'n't chainring. Bit annoying as it's caused a crash on one occasion and ruined a race run on another.
Always seems to happen when I'm flat out 9i.e. in top gear where the chain is at its slackest), either over really rough ground or on landing jumps. Chain length seems good as does the rest of the parts.
I'm starting to think that my freewheel may be a little bit draggy which is causing excess slack in the chain.
I run a top guide
The clutch on my xt rear mech recently broke and i was dropping the chain all over the place, luckily i had one of those Blackspire inner guards lying around which sort of sandwiches the chain between the bashguard so gave it ago and unbelievably i have not dropped the chain once since and i ride on some pretty nasty rocky exmoor descents. Ill def be leaving it on when i repair the clutch for added security. Could be worth ago if you can find one.
I was hoping a clutch mech would enable me to lose the chain device too, didn't work that well and dropped the chain a couple of times each ride. Ok it's rocky round here but I have a front mech which I thought would help. Oh well, put the chain device back on!
I think they are good mechs but not the miracle some people say they are.
^ Where as I ride mostly in the lakes and have yet to drop my chain since going thick/thin. It would drop quite often when I ran 2*9.
ZEE mech and a normal Hope chainring. Not dropped once.
What cassette? Chain line and then chain length. I was surprised at how short needed to be.
Lost mine several times now in races so an MRP top and bottom guide is going on tonight. Weighs 160g so more than a fair trade off for the time I've lost in races.
This is my setup
Nukeproof mega AM
30t Raceface NW
Zee Mech
11-36 cassette
Only happens when I'm in the 11t cog. Chainline is perfect, chain length is perfect accounting for growth, chain wear is <0.5 and the clutch is tight and on.
I've been running 1x9, with SLX non clutch rear mech and 30t race face NW upfront on my Cove Stiffee HT. Been running it quite a few months now and only time I threw the chain off was throwing the bike literally over a five bar gate.....never thrown it on rocky rooty trails ie Cannock Monkey and FTD or off piste riding.
I would suggest perhaps excess chain length when in smallest ratio that the mech can't cope with by taking tension out of it? My suggestion is switch back to a rear mech with longer cage.....this will ensure chain slack is taken up......can you see the common fault amongst all the set ups that are dropping the chain!!!!
Yeah that's interesting guys, my chain length is deffo as short as it can be, so maybe it is the short cage mechs that are the issue, the tracer runs an 11-36 with raceface narrow wide 32 ring, but with a med cage slx mech and I have never had an issue, the only difference in the two set ups is the mech. Thursday night ride will be the tester to see if my top chain guide that I've butchered does the job. Thanks for all your responses people, good to know I'm not on my own!!
I am tempted to just buy a carbocage chain device thought, just for good measure..( just cos they look soooo trick)!!
I've moved from a SRAM x7 and raceface n/w to a superstar n/w and a zee and much less chain loss
The superstar ring has longer teeth than the raceface and seems to be wearing a lot better too
Still need an upper guide tho
Steel hardtail (456 evo), raceface n/w 32T, 36-11 cassette, zee FR mech here.
I initially had bad problems with chain drop on this set up. Eventually I traced it to a worn lower jockey wheel (as in the bushing part of it was wearing a bigger hole in the plastic wheel bit from the inside - not tooth wear).
I think this accelerated wear was the result of bad chainline (particularly in the biggest sprocket) and a slightly bent hanger.
So, the chain was pulling 'across' on the lower jockey wheel. This wore it to the point where it was jamming when not under load (freewheeling downhill). I reckon this was pulling the mech enough (even with clutch on) to generate enough 'flap' to throw the chain off of the ring - ending up around the pedal (dangerously).
Solution:
Fit a superstar top guide (spoils the aesthetics a bit, but if the chain does 'flap' off the top of the ring it is immediately stopped.
Replace crap jockey wheel with a tacx version that runs on bearings rather than bushings.
Use some chainring spacing washers between the ring and the spider to optimise chainline.
Straighten hanger perfectly (well worth getting a tool for £20-odd as replacement hangers are expensive, or if the hanger is integrated like mine you will need to do this more often than you might think).
Good luck - my first n/w chainring was really knackered inside five months (wide teeth were like a standard ring, narrow teeth nearly gone). Second time around with the tweaked setup seems to be going much better (although winter has not yet had a say in the matter!)
I've never dropped the chain with just NW and clutch mech on my hardtail, even when I've forgotten to turn the clutch on. Have you checked the clutch is tensioned correctly? Mine loosens itself over time and requires a tighten every now and again.
Cheers guys, clutch is tightened to the max now, still no difference, I'll replace jockey wheels too while I'm at it, and check chain line, I'll get the lazer level on it!!!!
I had the same thing I my full sus put a bad guard which cured it
Might be the chain itself? A sticky or slightly bent link not fully engaging with the chainring might make the chain more likely to hop off on rough stuff, try fitting a new one?
If that doesn't work you've just got yourself a spare chain which you'll need eventually anyway...
I know it doesn't help, but my clutch mech with RF narrow wide ring on my Stanton is more reliable than it is on the big bike (which has only lost a chain three times in a year). My chain is pretty short though - but it is probably quite worn because it is the old one off the Banshee.
I spent a bit of time faffing with my chianline (RF cranks so I've got a couple of washers on the axle to fiddle with).
I'd just chuck on a top guide - as said before the bottom guide will do the square root of naff all when the chain flaps at the top of the ring.
I think single-ring setups with expander sprockets and/or short derailers are more prone to this. You're running a lot of chain for the relative size of the chainring to higher cassette gears, and are at or beyond the limit of the derailer. Chains have a lot of mass, and can move even a clutched derailer cage, through vertical movement over rough ground. If you're in a high gear on a fast undulating trail the derailer clutch sometimes can't keep up and the chain slacks off the chainring. This is compounded by full suspension geometry with a lot of chain growth. It's definitely more unusual on a hardtail, but not impossible.
to the OP do you want me to send you one of our new chainrings to try for free,ill take the risk and let you decide out in the wild if its any good or not before i stick these out in the market place.
ps i think i have a black one and a purple ceramic coated one left out of the last batch
Hi mate, that's a lovely offer, I've only just seen your post so apologies for the delayed response, I must look really ungrateful!!! To be honest the problem seems to have sorted itself now as I've added an adapted superstar plasma chain device, I've cut the lower roller guide off it so it's just a top guide now and it appears to have done the trick, it's not thrown a chain since putting it on anyway! However, if you would put a link to your website or some details on your chain rings I will gladly buy one from you and give them a whirl when I'm ready for a new one. Many thanks, si.
Ditch the raceface NW. I had the same problem on my mega TR. I don't think the teeth are big enough.
I run a blackspire mono veloce on my hardtail with non clutch mech and have never dropped.
as soon as I put one of these on my mega never dropped chain again...
the teeth on the mono veloce are much more pronounced
Same issues here, dropping the chain on rougher stuff. Running a raceface NW with brand new chain and new zee mech.
What chainguide should I be using with a press fit BB? Is there a top guide that mount where an e-type front mech would?
Not all Narrow/Wides are created equal, I know a few people who have had issues, I'm running a 32t Gamut TTr and so far (touch wood) I haven't lost the chain once, the hard anodizing seems to be keeping wear at bay as well.
If you're having issues with chain loss just get a decent lightweight upper only guide, all the top guys and girls on the EWS run them.
Keen to get a Gamut TTR myself - have a Gamut ring on the DH bike that hasn't worn at all - and it was on my previous DH bike too - whatever they coat them with is brilliant.
Mine occasionally gets shaken off my full sus when things get very ruff. Very annoying, especially in a race!
Hope NW ring
Bash guard
KMC chain
40-11t cassette
XT medium cage clutch mech
Mine's on a hardtail with an 11-36 cassette so chain retention isn't so much of a challenge in fairness.
I'm building up a 1 x 11 full-suss next year though so I'll be getting an upper guide, probably one of [url= http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/07/07/long-term-review-gamut-trail-sxc-guide-a-little-extra-security-for-1x-drivetrains/ ]THESE[/url] as they're pretty light.