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Considering most of the tax revenue is coming from people in the south and south-east, helping to subsides the rest of the country and pay for their free prescriptions and university education, then perhaps it is justified to consider looking after them with better leisure facilities.
Eh? Not convinced your numbers are going to add up. And what is this 'free university education' you speak of?
As an aside, a lot of the Welsh and Scottish centres were built with the aid of the EU.
Considering most of the tax revenue is coming from people in the south and south-east, helping to subsides the rest of the country and pay for their free prescriptions and university education, then perhaps it is justified to consider looking after them with better leisure facilities.
Predictable, amusing and depressing simultaneously.
This. It's a ballache. But it's the path that needs to be taken to do anything official, and this is once you've convinced the landowner it's a good idea.
A high level proposal to convert, improve and maintain the existing trail network is very doable.
Uplift? yep why not great way to generate funds to cover maintenance, insurances and expansion.
If anyone is interested in putting together a proposal I can email an example if it would help.
And what is this 'free university education' you speak of?
Is not Scotland : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-23279868
Predictable, amusing and depressing simultaneously.
why depressing to provide better leisure provision in an highly populated area which has a pressure on the existing areas ?
Edit - I canny really be arsed, seeing as it's an area I'll never ride.
Good day.
If I want to get rad on jumps, i'll save it for somewhere good and whilst in the surrey hills make up natural gaps as a flow along rather than, prescribed, easy, boring jumps.
Basically this.
why depressing to provide better leisure provision in an highly populated area which has a pressure on the existing areas ?
Because more people probably use the council swimming pools in Bracknell and the surrounding areas than Swinley.
Cost of a pool, a few million?
Cost of relocating the Army, a few billion?
And let's be honest, the popularity of MTB will wane, just like sailing, roller blading, BMX, windsurfing, and golf have before it.
And (again) as you say, it's not just MTBers that need open spaces, but you don't get complaints of picnickers building tabletops on private land.
Everyone I used to ride with on the Surrey Hills now rides a road bike, me included.
Everyone I used to ride with on the Surrey Hills now rides a road bike, me included.
I don't! 8)
But admittedly my mtb mates do!
Anyway, I can't believe this thread has got this far without the Landowner being labelled 'an Evil Tory'.
Everyone I used to ride with on the Surrey Hills now rides a road bike, me included.
One man in the woods with a shotgun telling you to get off his land is nothing compared to the endless hatred you will surely face at the hands of the surrey motorists telling you to get off their roads?
why depressing to provide better leisure provision in an highly populated area which has a pressure on the existing areas ?
How about assessing some of the less wealthy London boroughs by their tax contribution and the level of benefit they receive and if they fall below a certain threshold, move the residents out somewhere else - up north perhaps - bulldoze the whole area and build an urban outdoor leisure sports zone accessible only to 45% income tax rate payers. Sounds fair?
Anyway - Scottfitz has the right idea - do it legitimately and collaboratively or sooner or later it'll get shut down.
Everyone I used to ride with on the Surrey Hills now rides a road bike, me included.
Not everyone you used to ride with has "gone soft" Muddy. 😉
why depressing to provide better leisure provision in an highly populated area which has a pressure on the existing areas ?
Most of those area's are true blue, and they cut those sort of services. Perhaps you should vote different?
Hmm, the army are slowly moving out of the south east, it's just they're selling off the land for housing instead.
It's always been a problem, but now it's much worse because of people advertising the trails on the internet. Previously it was possible to keep trails quiet, now...
How much of Winterfold does this guy own ? And which bits ?
[url= https://goo.gl/Tzz4wH ]Map linky[/url] with arrow pointing to top of double chevron road climb. Which bits to the NW are off limits ?
Considering most of the tax revenue is coming from people in the south and south-east, helping to subsides the rest of the country and pay for their free prescriptions and university education, then perhaps it is justified to consider looking after them with better leisure facilities.
No one's forcing you to live there.
allthepies - Member
How much of Winterfold does this guy own ? And which bits ?
Map linky with arrow pointing to top of double chevron road climb. Which bits to the NW are off limits ?
Easier is to look at the areas which are permitted or at least generally open access (to ride, not dig). i.e. the Hurtwood lands. The car park map is pretty good for that as it shows the Hurtwood bits shaded.
Main area off limits is Winterfold Wood, just north of shaded bit by car parks 12,13 & 4. Boundary is at the end of Evian, hence the private signs right there.
Gets more complicated as I believe in the recent sale of Hurtwood land he bought some of it. Never quite got it confirmed but I think that includes Northern Monkey.
However so far his issue is the main area, which is main site of forestry work and where he lives anyway I understand.
Ta.
All the people I rode MTB with in the Surrey Hills still ride in the Surrey Hills and the trail builders still build trails but not in obvious places like Winterfold
Does anyone know which trails the OP was talking about as being bulldozed?
All the trails to the right of Evian - SS, 14A, S'backs, Twix, new Carpet Land that sit on JMcA's land.
DK he has bought Bentley Copse, Windmill Wood and Jelly's Hollow so yes I think NM falls under that area if my map plotting skills are still right.
The table top (?) to the start of Vauxhall Nova has been flattened but it looks like a lot of drainage work on Pitch on the fire roads so not sure what that is about but have asked.
b****x 🙁 some of those have been there for years.
Glad I got a few recent spins in down there then. Hopefully they will pop up again.
(but thanks)
just spoke to a reliable source - apparently all jumps and areas seen as unsafe are being pulled down, landowner has had enough lots of damage and disrespect.
I would love to have seen someone fly the mega jump by summer madness. I wonder if that will be destroyed.
Given that the litter I referred to was right in the middle of the sensitive area, we have only ouselves to blame. I for one am a little guilty as rode switchbacks (badly on the bends) and three amigos when that was restored despite Big Jims trees across the end of both trials.
Shame that we have got to this.
landowner has had enough lots of damage and disrespect.
If he didn't have the liability concerns he wouldn't give a damn I reckon - why would he as surely he is only interested in the trees growing and then logging them in later years. As long as any trail building doesn't disturb the trees then I wouldn't think it matters much to him.
If people injured themselves badly on his land because of riding the trails they built then I suspect he would just laugh about it and not be bothered - as long as there was no possibility of financial liability.
Perhaps a positive step would be to talk to him to see if his opinions are coloured by damage, littering and disrespect, and what is driving his decision making, rather than make sweeping assumptions and statements on a public forum about what he thinks and why he acts like he does.
Talking personally, these elements would influence how I thought about dealing with something. But I'm not him.
By talking openly, perhaps some sort of agreement/solution could be found.
Sorry guys, it's not bulldozer tracks that's my new wheel size!
Useless on tight turns but no punctures yet.
Perhaps a positive step would be to talk to him to see if his opinions are coloured by damage, littering and disrespect, and what is driving his decision making, rather than make sweeping assumptions and statements on a public forum about what he thinks and why he acts like he does.
There are relevant people currently talking and working with him on the matter.
The name in the web address bar is pretty similar to a prolific digger in the area - how ironic
Must have been editted out of the thread title
Anyway, I can't believe this thread has got this far without the Landowner being labelled 'an Evil Tory'.
😆
Most of them are. Probably just taken as given now. 😉
Sonor - Member
Everyone I used to ride with on the Surrey Hills now rides a road bike, me included.
Not everyone you used to ride with has "gone soft" Muddy. 😉
Last time I saw you on your MTB you were riding the Tamsin trail in Richmond Park, now that's what I call soft! 😉 😉
Very interesting posts, one thing Jim is not liking is when building jumps causes fire in the forest like it did in aug 2015 and wrecked 1.5 acres of wood.... you can still see the blackened trees and burnt wheelbarrow near 14A. Purely unacceptable.....
Last time I saw you on your MTB you were riding the Tamsin trail in Richmond Park, now that's what I call soft!
Ha! Still "off road", still on a mountain bike! 8) 😆
Tuskaloosa- is that all jumps/features on all trails or just the stuff on Jim's land?
Gotama - unsure tbh. I know McA owns 1/2 of Pitch now which I think is the bottom half. The other 1/2 is owned by a keen mtb'er.
How to turn Jim into a keen mtb'er ? 🙂
So I might be popping up that way today. Can anyone give me a summary of the winter fold area?
I am assuming that Evian is ok and N Monkey, S Madness and the stuff on that side are ok? Guessing that 3 amigos and switchbacks might be difficult and the stuff over by carpet land and Secret Sanfa (could have the names wrong there) are were Jim has been active.
So a loop avoiding the lower bits N of Evian is still ok?
Of the trails you mentioned 3A and Evian both end on J McA's land....which is why the exits have been blocked and the private signs put up. Everything North of there, until you get to the road, is on his land too. Given the sensitivity of the situation, that it is private land and that the owner has made it clear he doesn't want us there, personally I am avoiding............
Best to avoid for the time being and give it time to settle down and the dialogue between the guys who are taking to him to come up with a long term solution
CB, SM, LL and X3RL should be ok
Wow it's that bad. Glad I checked as I was going to park at top of barhatch and ride all that stuff.
Might be punchbowl instead !
Hmm
Awkward
Suggestions for new handle by IM please 🙂
CB, SM, LL and X3RL should be ok
Just trying to work out which they are!!! SM I get. Is the massive jumpy to the left of SM still here?
Just been out. Northern monkey is fine and he hasn't put any signs up on that section. The new ish jumpy line from t'other side of jelly hollow is still all there albeit winterfold is really overgrown. Area 51 running nicely, didn't do evian but noticed others going down. Again no signs that were being ignored. From what I understand he isn't against trails per se, it's the jumps/drops that really annoy him because of the potential liability that is transferred to him.
one thing Jim is not liking is when building jumps causes fire in the forest like it did in aug 2015 and wrecked 1.5 acres of wood
What was the story here? How did jump building cause a fire?
Gotama - Member
From what I understand he isn't against trails per se, it's the jumps/drops that really annoy him because of the potential liability that is transferred to him.
Jim is very much against trails on his private land, full stop. He's blocked off stuff for years that have no jumps or drops. His liability concern he says is to do with forestry work mixing with bikes. Says his insurers insist the bikes must be kicked off the land.
Evian/A51 aren't his. The guy who owns that bit is more open to bikes. He did flatten it a bit back along with Milestone because it was just "taking the piss" at the time (Milestone in the main).
NM is Jim's now it seems, but that's Hurtwood land and so far he's sticking to the same open access agreement the rest of Hurtwood owners have.