[Closed] LBS vs CRC

Ha ha! That's awesome you were clearly the last straw when you called him and he cracked... What job do you do? Do you get people in front of you and on the phone asking you to compromise how well you work? It's a similar feeling when folk demand a discount...

Well lets just say that if I spoke to my customers (the MOD) like that I'd loose my job! I dont expect to be spoken to in that way. All he needed to say was , Sorry mate, I cant match that, I can do an extra fiver off, or something like that. Now he has lost the money I was going to spend on a helmet plus DVD etc....

I don't think there's any way the average shop can match CRC's prices. It's just a huge factory warehouse with everything bought in massive bulk amounts. I like CRC for some things, but sometimes you need to try things on before you buy and pay the extra few quid (helmets, shoes). Also if something goes wrong with an order its a pain in the arse sending something back or following it up.

I hate the manager of my lbs, but i use them for some things anyway...

True being rude gets yer nowhere but I understand where he's coming from...if you strike up a relationship with an lbs in my experience you'll find he'll look after you anyway...speculative phone calls can be incessant and very wearing.he'd maybe just got his vat/fine/tax bill that morning...

I think you handled it badly. If you'd gone in store to negotiate face to face and shown interest in more than a chainset you'd have got a better result.

I think your attitude is the bad one.

Pauly - What????? sorry forgot this was arguetrackworld.

All I did was ask in a polite manner, if he would price match? whats wrong with that? Its a common thing nowadays.

It wasnt you was it?

Merlin quite often undercut them on Shimano and they aren't as big.

I would go into the bike shop try on some helmets.

once you find the perfect fit, im sure the owner would have come over to help. Give him the helmet back and tell him your going home to order one from crc.

That does happen...I fell out with my insurance broker cos his son sucked my oxygen then told me smugly 2weeks later he bought a bike online...numpty!

In the last fortnight, I've bought from CRC, Merlin and LBS, my reasoning, because unless you are a mountain bike god, you will probably need, know, or probably should support tyhe local guy to a point.

1. Merlin, had parts I needed, but could wait for and were a lot cheaper than either CRC or LBS.

2. CRC had bits I didn't need, but wanted to try and were cheap in their sale.

3. LBS had parts I needed fast, otherwise I couldn't ride next day, they did me a deal pricewise anyway, almost down to CRC levels, and gave me sound advice over fitting a part.

Geologist, cyclesurgery and Evans both price match , theyre the ones i go to if i want cheap off the shelf stuff, if i want a chat, and and some free advice i go to a bike shop, which i usually do,because they do repairs etc.

All I did was ask in a polite manner, if he would price match? whats wrong with that? Its a common thing nowadays.

Sounds like a case of 'sense of entitlement meets raw nerve' leading to huffs all round. I'm sure he doesn't speak to all his customers like that, probably a bad day.

I do think it is a bit cheeky asking your LBS to price match t'interweb though, they are entitled to a living after all. I wonder how many times that shop gets punters in asking them to fit bits bought from CRC et al after realising they aren't quite so easy to fit after all.

"Just because he couldnt get to that price, should'nt have made him be rude to me on the phone."

I agree. But I understand why. You could apologise, and he might too.

True I agree,

My local bike shop Pearce Cycles have almost CRC prices anyway, so price is not usually a problem. They can be within 10% of CRC prices on most things. I have a decent job, and do like to support my local shop, I would be willing to pay an extra £10/15 on something thats £90 rather than go online. But £30 was pushing it.

Aside from the price of parts, Pearce have fitted me in to do emergancy repairs, there and then, when I know that they are really busy. They are a great shop.

Again - I didnt really expect him to exactly price match, as its a v good price for the thing, but I hoped he may have got to within 10 or 15 quid. If he had of done, I'd of had it from them.
Its just as you said above, I wanted the chainset for friday, so CRC were the option and they are the cheapest too. But normally it is local all the way, unless the price difference is very significant, or its a rush job for parts.

Dont understand why the OP is getting blamed. The bike shop shouldn't of been rude and I'm sure if he said instead no I can't match CRC but I can do it for X price most people would consider it as they have the support of the local bike shops if they need it.

Imagine you own a LBS and you are really struggling to make it viable because everyone buys from the internet based bulk supplier. then someone rings you up, who's not a regular punter, to ask for 25% off a single item.

whilst he was wrong to shout at you, i can well understand the frustration he probably felt. but that's okay because you have a well paid job

People at my work ask for discounts all the time - they're not handled in a rude manner even if they're taking the pi55 (which the OP isn't - lots of LBSs price match - e.g. Evans).

The way I look at it is I don't owe anyone a living, if they offer a product / service at the right price or can add value in some other way I'll buy from them, if they don't I won't.

Fine line between decent and well paid. And Im on the wrong side!

So bike shops should only deal with regular punters? If so, why does this one and alot more post adverts in big national magazines?

Ewan - spot on

Will you fit it yourself or pay someone to do it? Some LBS include free fitting

Depends, chainset - myself, new headset on a frame - purchase from bike shop and have them fit it.

I heard somewhere Shimano RRPs are a 100% mark up for the retailer. I have no idea if this is true or not.

geologist, I wasn't trolling, just genuinely think you would have got a better result face to face.

Put yourself in his shoes; some random calls up and asks him to discount stock. Go to agree with limbjimbo's "sense of entitlement meets raw nerve".

I just know if people rang me all the time and asked me to do my job for 25% reduction in pay then i'd very quickly get to the point of telling them to....well you get the point.

I think it was a little off basically naming and shaming over this. I know you haven't actually named but it's not hard to find out who you mean.

I know the shop and the guy in question (as a regular-ish customer, no massive loyalties though). I am amused but not suprised to hear how your phone call went, I got used to his, errr, style and basically he is a decent bloke who's put a phenomenal amount of time and resources into the local bike scene. My mrs (also a 'proper' cyclist) can't stand him though!

FWIW, there is no way in a shop his size he could have got near 25% off rrp on shimano; he'd be paying you a tenner to take it away. He has done really good deals on bikes/frames/helmets in the past, and not just to people he knows either. TBH if you are about to drop £100 on a helmet it might be an idea calling in the shop, acting as if you didn't ring him up recently about a chainset and trying your luck for a cash-only discount, I've known him do really good deals on helmets and of course you get to try it on rather than chancing your arm with mail order.

CRC [u]are[/u] my LBS and I can assure you I will never buy anything from them.

I always talk to my LBS before I buy anything from CRC and co. If they can get close, I buy from them. If not, I buy online with their blessing. I usually pay them to fit stuff for me and build up bikes though, and that's where they make their money from me. I think a lot of regular LBS users work in the same way these days. Frankly if they could get away with just selling boggo bikes and running the workshop I think they'd make more money.

Yes, the bloke was rude, but I'd try not to hold it against him.

If you advertise in the national magazines, surly you can expect to have people calling and asking to price match.
In any sales job, surley its expected.

And if you cant/wont price match, then its also a good point to start a "well i cant do it for that price, but i can do it for this price" typa thing.

I heard somewhere Shimano RRPs are a 100% mark up for the retailer. I have no idea if this is true or not.

I heard somewhere?? what a retard!

Rude!

Meh!

i will always support the shop i go to (melksham cycle centre) as much as i can.the guys there have always been very kind to me (as i have said on other posts,they have let me buy my bike whilst paying them off interest free,even though they know i am unemployed 😀 if there is a part i want to get and they can order it,i will always buy it with them 🙂

I heard somewhere Shimano RRPs are a 100% mark up for the retailer. I have no idea if this is true or not.

Not even close, nearer 30% ime.

That would seem more realistic.

Bringing them up again but Merlin were doing the SLX chainset for £78 a couple of weeks ago and CRC were doing it for £80. That is about 61% of the RRP so if they buy them in from the importer for 50% RRP - £65 then they make £13-15 profit. Not much. If the mark up is 30% then they are losing money.

But do shops like CRC get cheaper prices from the importer due to bulk or do they sell for less as they will shift more and make the profit that way? either way I can see RRP being 2x the trade price - ie 100% mark up on some stuff. Especially as the 10 speed SLX now seems to be £160 RRP and the 10 speed XT is about £210!!!! Which is a stupid price tbh, what are shimano doing with their pricing? £210 is a lot to pay for some cranks, chainrings and a BB. You could buy a bike for that.

Shimano margin is around 35-40% + shipping for the parts you are speaking about...

Another example is shimano SLX/XT bottom brackets.

£12.80 or something at Rose last time I got one but some stores are asking £30 for them eg: http://www.cyclestore.co.uk/productDetails.asp?productID=24456

I wonder what the trade price is. Maybe Rose get them direct so less 'mouths to feed' on the way to the customer but it does show how much of what you buy is overheads and profit margins - I am not saying it is unjustified as everyone in the supply chain needs to make money. Just that there seems to be massive variation.

edit: XTR BB - RRP £48, CRC price £38, Rose £16. If you go into somewhere that sells them at RRP then you have money to burn! (obviously as you are buying XTR!)

Grey market, innit.

£210 is cheap - take a look at the XTR price!

I heard somewhere Shimano RRPs are a 100% mark up for the retailer. I have no idea if this is true or not.

must be. I just don't see any other way for the variation.

The CRC chainsets come in a brown box with a CRC logo on and a barcode product label so I guess they buy them in bulk and box them up themselves. However I am also guessing the one you buy at the LBS will come in a full retail box with the usual stacks of shimano instructions for every language under the sun?

I know it's nice to get something shiny in a nice box but I prefer the brown box, download instructions if you need them route. Cheaper and better for the environment.

Oh and one word of warning for anyone ordering from CRC - the last 2 SLX chainsets I had from them both had the plastic pre-load nut missing.

I suppose if they are bypassing the normal import route then it is slightly understandable why shop owners who have to buy from the distribute will be getting pi**ed off. Still no excuse to take it out on the unsuspecting punter though who doesnt know any different.

I am guessing CRC warranty the parts themselves then as they are big enough to soak up the costs unlike an LBs who would have to go back to the distributor who then goes back to Shimano?

On a lot of stuff it's not just the packaging that's different.

Madison would want about £100 from an independent bike shop for an SLX chainset.

I think it is odd that people don't think it is rude to ask for a discount based on the price asked by one of the worlds biggest cycle retailers. In many cases the person working in the shop (most likely earning about £6/ph) is placed in the awkward position of having to say, 'no.

I think Americans or psychiatrists or someone would describe it as passive aggressive.

Are we confusing markup and margin? Margin is usually the gross profit expressed as % of the selling price eg a margin of 33% on a £150 is £50, so the buying in price was £100. This same item could be described as having a 50% markup to get the same selling price.

The bikes we sold typically had a margin of 30-35%, whilst components had a margin of 45-55%; note a 50% margin is a 100% markup

Maybe the margins have come down...?

The funny thing is we used to get laughed at by our clothing suppliers who would suggest a markup of 235-300% ....