[Closed] LBS - Dont they want customers?

Yep, madness when you see this sort of thing. That said, I've seen it the other way, where the LBS has told me to come in and they'll beat their on-line price by a few quid and I don't need to pay postage.

Inevitably I buy something else in there, even if it's just some lube, a chain, or some gloves.

Was it a shop in Saltaire by any chance?

Yes indeed it was....

I used to love the shop when it used to up the road and would travel to go there. Now its on my door step I find myself using it less and less, and stuff like this makes it less likely!

Shame really because the guy who runs the 'two' businesses is a good bloke who works bloody hard.

Tescos, Curry's, PCWorld and many other big companies do this.

Curry's, PCWorld, will normally offer the web price if you ask them to in my experience. They're quite open to negotiation I find...

If it was cheaper why didn't you buy it using the LBS online service?

"Tescos, Curry's, PCWorld and many other big companies do this."

Yep I did it with Tesco's last week, ordered some thing on line, picked it up from the shop for free.

Perhaps thats where the business model is going wrong. The bits came to say £10.50 postage would have been £3.50 for all of litteraly posting it about 1 mile away making CRC much cheaper.

So why dont they offer pick up in LBS for free, then like Tesco's etc they are getting foot fall, and then you might buy other stuff, or at least they can try and start building some form of rapport with a perspective customer.

So why dont they offer pick up in store for free, then like Tesco's etc they are getting foot fall, and then you might buy other stuff.

I don't know, did you ask them or suggest it?

It's plausible that they are completely different business so keep everything separate.

i agree it sounds crazy, but why not buy the stuff from the online section of the lbs website? same price as crc and your still supporting the local business.

The guy on the phone said it is run as 2 separate businesses, but why does that matter to me as a customer?

Both businesses are branded the same, in fact their website suggests you visit their store....

Mang - As I have said above, by the time you add P&P to their online price, they become more expensive than others.

I've yet to come across a decent LBS 🙁

So why dont they offer pick up in LBS for free, then like Tesco's etc they are getting foot fall, and then you might buy other stuff, or at least they can try and start building some form of rapport with a perspective customer.

My guess would have to be they are not bright enough to see that it might be a good thing to get people through the door.

i dont know the business you refer to but it is a model of which i have some experience having worked briefly as a buyer for one of the named businesses above.
some manufacturers will not allow thier product to be sold instore below a price however the product may be available from other sources and available for sale at any price. the issue here is availability and reliability of supply.
if we wanted to stock a full range with full backup there was only one place to obtain that ( through the manufacturer or importer) however we could often offer a limited number of a limited range of the products via a third party ( usually overseas) where the retail price was often considerably less than the 'norm'.
this clearly drove high value sales but delivered very low margin. it was an excellent tool for driving market share and sales value but the reward was limited and thus endangered profitability.

clearly the saltaire business is doing the 'right' thing. retailing a full range at the best price possible whilst offering a limited on line business. in doing so maximising sales values and margin.

Ironically the business i was involved in started its 'direct' business in the same mill in saltaire..

I've had that with Cycle World in Portsmouth. Either I will buy locally from Wiggle [still supporting the LBS of sorts] or I go to Cycle surgery for Price Matching or I go to Velocity and get awesome customer services.

I've had this at All Terrain before, its frustrating when you know its cheaper if you are willing to wait a few days but want to buy something to use straight away.

Perhaps they should change the web site name to All-Terrain Direct or the shop name to All Terrain Express?

Buy it online and get it delivered to the shop. You get the web price and get to visit the bike shop and sniff the tyres too.

A win / win

How would they feel if you tried on some shoes in [b]their[/b] shop then bought from [b]their[/b] website?

If you offer two different prices, in my opinion you have to have two different brand names to differentiate. Otherwise its disingenuous to a customer.

Especially if the same staff pick and pack the items (and/or are based at the same premises).

Dunc

I have just had the same conversation with that shop.

Annoying, because I could order online and nip down collect avoiding courier charges.

At least they would've got a sale

I saw my LBS owner shopping in Tesco

The guy on the phone said it is run as 2 separate businesses

Couple of years ago they had Giro Hex helmets at £35 plus P&P in the web shop. I went into the bricks and mortar shop to try one on, they were on sale at RRP which was around £50 iirc. I asked if they could do it there and then for somewhere near the web price but I was told it was two separate businesses. So I go home and order helmet online and it is delivered to me. I live 2 miles from the shop!
Fast forward a few months retention band in helmet comes away, ring shop explain situation, they say return to them. I say I'm only down the road they say just bring into the shop. They then swap it for a new helmet from on display in the shop 😕 Confusing.

Don't bother with any of my LBSs anymore, online shopping all the way for me. If I need a workshop job doing that I can't do I'll travel to a not so LBS over the hill.

redthunder - Member
I've yet to come across a decent LBS
POSTED 5 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

69 cycles in Chester are fantastic.

I've ordered SRAM casettes from CRC and had them delivered to my work.. The LBS! Sometimes considerably cheaper than trade plus VAT. It was partially to wind my boss up though!

I've yet to come across a decent LBS

LifecycleUK in Bildeston round these parts are good. Ordered boots Saturday, picked up at lunchtime today and a reasonable price. (Not as cheap as CRC but quicker delivery if you factor in the collect from depot needed).

I have been thinking about a webshop for my shop and the idea of a web price and a shop price is aborant to me. However there are many distributors who do not care how much you sell for, they say they encourage sale at trade price.RJ Chickens who distribute Tifossi bikes for instance (which I stock) do not control how those are sold. One shop is selling on ebay, others are selling well below list so I have to follow. I do not agree with two prices, I see the website if it ever gets going as supporting the shop not as a seperate business.

It baffles me why people dont understand that the LBS has to make money, its not in business to give out freebies.

If you dont like it then dont use them and wait for it to close down, then come on here and greet about not having a LBS!!

My LBS is important to me, so wherever possible i use them.

QUOTE - Was it a shop in Saltaire by any chance?

What's with the secrecy on this forum ffs, just name and shame, it may not be a typical name and shame game but still.

My missus bought a set of pans from Sainsbury's, online, the other day, for collection at our local branch.
They cost £26 less than from the shelf at the same store.
24 hrs after ordering she had the email to say we could collect. The box was wrapped at the store and obviously arrived from a warehouse earlier that day.
We got them home and one was damaged.
I went back to the shop and they just replaced it with one from the shelf !

So why dont they offer pick up in store for free, then like Tesco's etc they are getting foot fall, and then you might buy other stuff.

Performance Bicycle is a large bike store chain in the US and they also sell online. The online price is usually much lower than the in-store price.

Halfords is the same. Wanted something that was cheaper online, asked the guy to match it but said he couldn't. So I got my phone out, bought it online and ticked the pick up locally option then took it away. Madness

I'm building some wheels at the moment. Shopping for spokes & thought I'd try the LBS...£1.00 each...!!!
Rose bikes do them for less than half that.
And these are std sizes, not some odd lengths.
I always try to support the LBS where I can, but you have to draw the line somewhere. I was looking at nearly £70 on spokes...!!!

Not bike related, but some years ago my mate wanted a camera. Jessops said they would honour the (genuine) online price he'd found if he printed the page out. So into Jessops he goes, with printout & cash. Chap then tells him camera is in stock, & even shows it to him. He then tells him he has to pay for it, but go back to collect the camera next day, as the online deal he found was including next day delivery.

Needless to say my mate had a parcel delivery next day, & Jessops till finished the day £200 lighter.

for the sake of a few pence or a pound why not just buy from the LBS?

Pieface - Member

for the sake of a few pence or a pound why not just buy from the LBS?

for the sake of a few pence or a pound why not just buy from the LBS?

Why not buy it cheaper online, and then set light to a diver, then you could have the lbs experience without leaving your sofa. Well minus the disinterested staff inreraction bit.

So I am not the only person who has been surprised by All Terrain Cycles attitude.

As to those saying I should subsidise my local LBS why the hell should I, they are just a business like any other...

Ok they may be working to a business model and thats all very well and good for them. Obviously they are wanting internet businesss and local passing trade ie not regular repeat customers, again fine by me. However I am surprised that they want to turn down the opportunity to get local riders in to their store because it doesn't fit their business model.

Shame really because now I probably wont bother even checking their website, let alone visit the shop. Appears to me they are dismissing a whole customer section.

As to when I need work doing on my bike, well I think I will just nip over the hill to JD's

Just march into the shop website print off in hand and demand they price match their online sister business....

Or don't and just order it from CRC, nowt wrong with them really...

The only issue I can imagine they have is that the two separate businesses are totally separate entities with separate stock holding, separate trade accounts and everything, but even that seems a bit tenuous...

So I am not the only person who has been surprised by All Terrain Cycles attitude.

Not at all. I was too.

I saw they had something I wanted at a very good price on-line and was passing reasonably near by, so made a detour, hoping to pick it up. The shop price was much higher and I was given the same line about different businesses. I asked if I could order on-line and take the stock there and then, saving them picking, packing and posting, but no joy. Strange.

Other shops I've been in have similar pricing strategies have happily met their own (or other) on-line prices following a simple friendly request.

I can see this from both sides.

Sticking a label on a jiffy can be done at any hour of the day and takes seconds.
Taking money in the shop will always involve a few minutes of banter, staffing, opening up etc etc

I like the banter, but if you are running a tight business model banter costs time.

But it also takes time explaining why you have two prices.

How about a turnstile in the shop entrance with two options:
1) free to enter but not allowed more than essential chat such as "one water bottle"... "10.99" with grumpy (ex prison warden) staff.
2) £3 entrance fee with upto ten minutes of banter with jolly (ex lap dancing) staff.

Over the phone... Press one if you actually have some money and want to buy something.. Press two to warble on about a 1935 nurgley wretchins and ask questions about things you are not going to buy, starting the conversation with "I doubt you have a twanny spring for a nurgley wretchins. I've been looking for one for 10 years.." and when the shop guy says yeah sure we do it's £1, you can then say "ok I will have to think about it and call you back.... I once cycled with bill waters, you don't him, he has a beard and two arms... We rode to summerbuttcome from worbledrover... That was something special....

Would an 0898 cycle chat line work...

Are you bored and lonely want to talk bottom brackets and nipples with like minded men in your area..( Me in a leotard doing a sexy dance in background) Call 0898 853 853 .... Etc

I have been in Charlie's shop, and all of the above is true. Worryingly.

I own an LBS and saw one of my customers shopping in Tesco.

Charlie, that's genius!

I went to Leisure Lakes because I wanted to try some shoes on for size before I bought them.
I mentioned they had a 10% sale on on line at the time and asked if he could match it with the in store price.
He said no, so I said that now I know what size I want, I might as well go back home and order them on line, although I would have preferred to buy them there and then.
He thought about it and said "OK, we'll match it".

Surely selling a pair of shoes at 10% off is better than having them sat on the shelf at full price.

If you dont waant to buy from your LBS thats fine just stop coming on here bleating about how expensive they are as if they are pesonally trying to rip you off. It just shows you lack of understanding.

If you dont waant to buy from your LBS thats fine just stop coming on here bleating about how expensive they are as if they are pesonally trying to rip you off. It just shows you lack of understanding.

Good Lord! Some intelligence at last, internet retailers work on volume/lower overheads, it's simply not possible to price match this in the high street. If all LBS went to CRC pricing most of them would be closed within months!

Also why would you want to sell something cheap when the vast majority of customers are happy to pay RRP? There are alot more cyclists in the world other than the niche mongers on here.

"Also why would you want to sell something cheap when the vast majority of customers are happy to pay RRP? There are alot more cyclists in the world other than the niche mongers on here."

But thats the sort of ludite attitude that will see LBS going to the wall.

From reuters "Capgemini and consultants IMRG said on Friday online retail sales rose 25 percent year-on-year in December to 6.8 billion pounds, taking the total for 2010 to 58.8 billion pounds, up 18 percent and far outstripping an original forecast of 13 percent."

So I think you will find more and more of the population are prepared to shop around online and get a good deal.

All I was ever suggesting is that maybe my LBS might wasnt to try and encourage my custom, not give me reasons not to shop with them...

Of course owning a proper, functioning internet shopping site costs peanuts.

Yes you can start from your home, employing your girlfriend or Nan to answer emails and packaging.

If you want to attract business, satisfy customers and carry on you need to do abit more..

Business premises. Yes you can use a Unit/large lock up but these also attract rent, business rates, heating/lighting, packaging and corporate tax etc.
Your Mum wont know about compatibility of products so you need to employ someone who understands the products to be your customer services. Plus you can talk/take up someones time on the phone/email just as much as in a shop. Then there is the aspect of orders going missing, damaged goods, misdescribed, online content managed, staff for this and to your hosting company etc etc.

Lets also be honest, from my experiences of most bike shops - the quality of the staff isn't ****ing great. So that cup of tea you offer, you know cost you 10p but you expect me to drop a few hundred out of my wallet at the end of it? Come on.

You'll also have to pay these people wages, NI contribution etc etc.

Then there are the two biggie's:
- Stock availability, you need to receive, store and HOLD quite a large selection. This takes staffing, square footage (extra rent costs), lighting etc. Comparable to the actual store space (the shop floor) of a LBS.
- Price sensitivity to the vast array of other online competitors.

So what really are the cost differences? To me, shop glass and maybe slightly higher rent. Yes you have display costs but lets be honest, LBS's take advance sales don't they on shop display model bikes so they win win on that part.

On the high street retailers in general- its only the shit ones that go under.

Plus I love the way some folk bang on about 'timewaster' customers. Smell the coffee, in the business world you can run through a huge tender, spend many man hours on it to be told 'nope'.

Quit ****ing moaning. 😆

I rang the same shop to see if they had the tyres I was after. Got the same advice, I'd be charged more if I went in there! Ordered them off Next Day instead.

Retail rent is about 2-6 times warehouse rent. Shop's need to be open 9-5.30 6 days a week (a warehouse you can get away with much lower staffing levels for the same volume of sales, and staff are ££££), so the cost isn't the same.

However having a shop website, and not offering a click and collect service is plainly stupid! You can have the item in the shop prices at RRP for jonny punter who doesn't spend 27hrs online to save 3p, and have it online at a price which is competitive in that market and not lose either customer.

Shop's need to be open 9-5.30 6 days a week

Do you really think that a properly run online operation is run on less hours than this?

In the early/expansion days of a website/shopping portal I bet the owner(s) and staff(s) will be replying to order questions etc longer than office hours...

Sorry I'm not having a go. I just don't like the fairy tale view of LBS's.

One last thing. Do you think as a loyal and regular customer you'd still be welcome if you walked in and said 'hey I no longer have any money'.

Its a business that schmooches you. Just like any other. It just happens to be attached to a hobby.

Hora, I speak from 10 years experience of running an online business(non bike), and 3 years experience running an LBS. Trust me, staffing levels and costs for online are a LOT lower than for a bricks and mortar shop, so much so that when I'm in the office I have plenty of time to post sh!t on STW, but when I'm in the shop I don't have time to have a sh!t!

Very few people actually phone up, that's the whole point of online. The warehouse staff can pick and pack a lot of orders in 4 hours per day. For the same staffing cost you can probably cater for 3-4 times the turnover, and hence allow your margin to slip.

I remember the last time I used my local bike shop, which I had been using since a kid ([b]MK Cycles[/b] in Bolton). I nipped in to ask them if they could tighten my BB cups up on my new bike I was building as I didn't have the correct tool. The guy behind the counter got stroppy calling me cheeky as its a business and they cant be doing all these things for free!!?? I never said I wasn't going to pay!! So I bought the right tool off him and left and have never been back - probably been a customer for 15 years previous to that.

I can't speak for a 'LBS' but I too have experience from both sides of the fence.

hora - Member
I can't speak for a 'LBS'

Druidh, retail industry in two sectors with lower price points.

Plus if someone wanders in on a Sat morning for a chat, just to hang round and browse. Whats wrong with that? Do your staff have somewhere better to be?

Other customers?

'Hang on a min Sir I'm just going to help this person'

Would hora like to remind us what he does for a living?

The point is if you have a bricks and mortar shop and you price at online prices it would not be financially viable unless your turnover was huge. (£millions)

He also forgot rates, which is often the biggest killer on the highstreet.

Hora. Use that bowling ball on your shoulders for once.

If I was setting up a large online retailers, the first thing I'd do is find out where had the cheapest warehousing in the country was. Because ultimately your geographical location is irrelevant - hence the Guernsey mail order tax scam. So you might as well pay next to **** all!

If you want to set a shop up, you need to be in a prime location. Did you read anything about Blacks/Peacocks/La Senza etc etc etc. Why they went into administration? Rents - thats why. Rents in prime business locations are absolutely extortionate!

binners - Member
Hora. Use that bowling ball on your shoulders for once.

If I was setting up a large online retailers, the first thing I'd do is find out where had the cheapest warehousing in the country was.

Location. You need to attract decent staff anywhere you locate and that they can commute to.

Being on a high st means your customers...and your staff can get to you.

How many bikeshops do you know that are in prime retail positions? The likes of Evans, not small LBS's for the main.

Peacock went bust before.
La Senza sells poly bra's and cheap tat. M&S and many many others do it better.

Yes these retailers ARE in prime City/Town locations. They are big chains.

Funny how the retailers who are doing well are also in the big locations 😉

Well as an LBS owner in Leeds, Ive seen the Internet change everything in the last couple of years.

Its just the ease of shopping on the internet not just the prices.

You can compare prices from a dozen sites in minutes, but you can do this whilst on a coffee break at work.
I read somewhere that 80% of internet sales are made at 2 in the afternoon.
Could be wrong on that one.

But running a friendly shop, trying to be fair on price, service etc etc.

Just isnt enough to be successful.

Ive seen a couple of well established bike shops in Leeds go to the wall in the past year.
For this industry at least IMO, its about online sales, and to compete in that you need a start up of about £180million

Had the same with the same shop.

Find item on line mmm thats a good price lets see how much postage is ?

Oh hang on it's now not such a good price factoring in postage.

I know ill ring them up as I live a mile up the road.

Hi would you be able to offer the same price for xyz that I have seen on - line if I pop down (ill no doubt have a browse round whilst there and buy something else I didnt know I wanted)

Shop - No web side is a different business - ok how about if I order it now on-line and then pop down would save you having to post it out ?

Shop - No we cant do that either.

Ok not quite getting this now it would appear for the sake of you not having to post it and me using my time/fuel to come and get it you would rather me not buy it ?

Got you ok will keep shoppig else where thanks .

Great business sense - live long and prosper 😯

charlie thanks for that, made me proper lol

To be honest, I'm actually surprised you've not been barred from most bike shops anyway Hora.

I bet their hearts sink when you walk in. I'd like the moon on a stick please. I'd like it to preferably be free. And I'll be back in next week to make a warranty claim for some perceived/imagined/non-existent problem as my new forks have not miraculously transformed me into Steve Peat

[img] [/img]

Anyway.. interesting article for you...

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/oct/23/cycling-retailer-wiggle-considers-ipo ]wiggles turnover = £86.8 million[/url]

😯

Your such a naughty wind up binners 😉

He also forgot rates, which is often the biggest killer on the highstreet.

What about other non-high st businesses, don't they pay that? 😉

Then theres Corporation tax and audit of accounts?

My point is its the customer who is squeezed most. Yet we are vilified if we try to make the most of our money.

We are talked about in a generic-derogatory way yet we are expected not to make our wage go as far as possible.

Rule one in business, don't insult your Customers.

This thread has been rather derailed - it's not about whether it costs more to run a normal shop than an internet business, and that normal shops have to charge more in general (anybody with sense can see that 🙄 ).

Also why would you want to sell something cheap when the vast majority of customers are happy to pay RRP? There are alot more cyclists in the world other than the niche mongers on here.

But why would you want to not sell at all rather than sell a bit cheaper to those customers who will otherwise just go online? Especially if you're prepared to sell at that price to somebody who goes to your own website. That bricks and mortar shop is sitting there running up overhead whether or not you make that sale, and you're not even making more money if they use the online part of your business rather than the shop.

Aye soak up all the sales. Better to take some margin than no margin at all sometimes.

ARacer, Hora +1

Obviously I dont want All Terrain to do this as its good for us that they are upsetting potential customers. 😉

Sancho are you crosstracks, or are you not at liberty to say on here ?

I am yes.

This'll upset the apple cart. Good service from All Terrain.

I bought a set of forks and new brakes front & rear from them online.
There was a problem with the forks' delivery to them. So the bloke from the shop rings me up the same day.
Short conversation later a different fork is arranged, at a lower price than on their website. About £30 less,
Whilst on the phone the bloke mentions that I'm local and asks who's fitting the bits?
I say yes very local, about 10 mins ride, plus my Mrs works in New Mill, the other side of the canal.
He offers to fit the fork and brakes for me, as he has the items in stock in the store.
How much?
£10.00 for the fork and the brakes he'll do for free.
I say yes please when could you do it?
"If you drop your bike off today I'll do it tomorrow for you."
Took my bike down, dropped it off at 17:40. 10 mins after they shut, he waited open for me.
Got a phone call the next morning to say it was ready for me.
A most pleasant surprise as I'd expected to have to wait then do it myself.

Not had a bother with ATC and will happily spend money in their shop if I need something in a rush or online if not.

I just phone up my LBS to see if they had any XT mechs in stock. Luckily they had. I asked for the price. Shocked when they reply came as ''How much have you seen them for online?''. Brilliant! They price matched me over the phone with CRC and I picked it up. Dosent get much better than that. Falmouth Cycles (owned by Derek Heelis).

Well said shredder!

It's definitely not only bike shops that do this.

I've had a couple of examples recently -

Waterstones had a book on their website for £10 than it was in store (Amazon was £5 cheaper still) - I was happy to pay £5 more and get the book straight away but they wouldn't match their own web price so Amazon got the sale.
Game and Gamestation - my son wanted a DS game and their instore prices were £8 higher than the web price and they wouldn't match them. Neither got the sale as yet again Amazon could beat their web prices by £10.

The likes of Currys/PCWorld, Comet will always match their online price if asked.
Likewise Evans cycles are good at this and will accept other peoples online prices to match too.

I had the same with Waterstones/Hugh's Veggie book. 1/2 the price on their site. The assistant even brought it up.

I know this as I googled waterstones, found it but wanted a flick through first so decided now I'd found it I'd do all the deed instore.

Nope.I'm a customer, I don't care anout cost models. All I think of is 'buy'. Don't confuse me trying to explain your inner workings as I, the simple customer will think somethings afoot...dodgy or a con. Sad but true.

Evans standby all their price matching on current (remember Evans only stock current items) stock. So its obvious there enough margin in their volume (or even normal) deals with distributors???