For those complaining, do you phone OFCOM when an advert you don’t like comes on during the 10 o clock news or do you just think “nah, not for me” and move on as the news wouldn’t be broadcast without a top up of ad revenue?
To be honest, some on here do seem the type to be OFCOM botherers 😉
My dream is still a gas guzzling 3.4 litre straight 6 Porsche Mmmm
Straight 6? You might be waiting a while...
Attaching political affiliation to environmental concern was a very clever trick to making people think it’s not a real problem
I think that the folks who work at Singletrack (like the rest of us ) have to make, on a daily basis, decisions that on the face of it are complicit with what we know is very serious and fundamental environmental damage. From shopping at a supermarket to putting fuel in our cars. I think they, like the rest of us understand its a real problem, a bit like like putting food in our mouths and paying the leccy bill.
I would just like to balance out the responses a little and say that I like the ad. And I would prefer that STW continues to get decent ad income from wherever they can. And I don’t personally see any disconnect between the staff wanting a different, personal environmental direction than some advertisers or even readers.
again, just to add a personal comment, as balance - i personally disagree with much of the environmental doom-saying that is so prevalent on here. But I don’t mention it much, since I love the forum in general, and figure it’s just the demographic of a loud minority. In a similar way, I don’t particularly like or support the Labour Party, which seems to put me totally at odds with the loudest portion of regular posters on the forum. But like the fervent environmentalists on this forum, I think the rather militant anti-torys are probably just a very vocal minority. And are obviously perfectly welcome to their opinions. But it does at times become tedious, and off-putting to read these views so repetitively.
You’re obtusely misunderstanding the definition of sustainability
Not at all, it's just I'm well aware nothing is free.* You're obtusely picking an arbitrary line that says the person after me can't tell rather than the person after them or them or them which, let's face it, is precisely how we got into this mess, it'll be fine tomorrow, who cares about next decade? You can't see the damage so it must be OK, at least until you can.
You're deciding the things you feel you need are sustainable and the things you don't aren't.
An unsustainable level of use use is when the erosion stops the next person being able to have the same enjoyment you had.
And when it's hundreds, thousands of people after you? Is it OK because you were first but not the person at the back? Is the one who dislodges that rock to blame or the millions that went before? All those paths didn't get there by accident, they're not there because of geological aging.
And that's the thing. Millions of small evils are not good but we're all busy picking the narrative we like.
"cars bad (because I use the train when I need to go to the office), planes bad (because I only live an hour from dover), cows bad (because I'm vegan) ). May I have a flat white with californian almond milk and the lovely Honduran arabica, to eat, the Spanish avocado [s] blended [/s] smashed with Chinese garlic and Sudanese sesame, on eastern-european-wheat toast with a side of desert grown spinach and a drizzle of Australian olive oil for me please, can I pay with my Congolese minded cobalt and strip mined Chilean lithium fueled iPhone?"
"Oh this Cypriot lettuce is a bit limp, it's only good for a day or two after is cut you know"
Absolutely I'm a hypocrite, what baffles me is a lot of people think they aren't.
(edit)
*eg your sustainable farming, there is only so long you can farm the same piece of land before yields drop, nutrients are depleted and you have to abandon it or start using fertilisers etc. Abandoning it means using other land to produce those crops, that land was trees or peas or pasture or carpark but absolutely it wasn't the same yesterday as it is today. Alternatively those fertilisers aren't free to produce, at the very best end, compost made from the waste product of a plot will never put back what the production took out, even if it's close, the land eventually has to be rested or artificially fertilised.
I’m going to take exception at that, the country is for all of us or none of us within reason. I’m not a fan of 4×4 and mx bikes but, if we want better access to the country that’s what we want, not better access for some of us based on how we choose to access it. See no cycling on a public footpath.
thisisnotaspoon has pretty much answered this, but happy to show you the results in some local areas where 4x4s and MX bikes have "connected with nature" and exercised their access rights, and then some, hopefully without them "connecting" with us. I'm actually not against off-roading in general, but there's very few places, and very few ways people can do it responsibly, particularly in this country. And plenty of people willing to do it irresponsibly.
<p style="text-align: center;">I have to agree with Johnhe. I’m on here a lot but don’t post often, and I’m often shocked at the disconnect but certain members posting helpful, friendly things on the bike forum to being really quite unpleasant on political threads on the chat forum. Anyone saying something that doesn’t match with their hard left views is rounded shouted down. This particular debate is a little different perhaps, but I noticed that Mark hasn’t really weighed in to defend himself - perhaps because he knows whatever he says or does will just be shouted down rather than listened to?</p>
but there’s very few places, and very few ways people can do it responsibly, particularly in this country.
Hardly a 4x4 or crosser specific problem though is it.
And plenty of people willing to do it irresponsibly.
And next time you're riding where you shouldn't, or on a nice freshly cut trail, ask if it's chicken or egg.
I mean, I know I'd ride where I'm not supposed to be a lot less if i was "supposed to be" in a lot more places.
There are absolutely downsides to to off roading, but I'll bet you a pint of your favourite water intensive, masses of co2 producing beer (or what ever they have at the bar at the naughty) that they're mostly the same things redsockists level at mtbers.
perhaps because he knows whatever he says or does will just be shouted down rather than listened to?
Nah, he's just too busy squandering his millions, hunting pablo's hippos in a sponsor provided pickup truck.
but happy to show you the results in some local areas where 4x4s and MX bikes have “connected with nature” and exercised their access rights,
Just look at f*** the fells or DCC for examples that come up here regularly if you think non motorised traffic is above this.
They're not just up there spending all that time and money "fixing" damage done by off roaders
It’s just an advert for a truck. Isuzu obviously looked at their algorithms and decided they might be able to sell them to us.
If we don’t want them because they’re impractical for putting very expensive and highly nickable bikes in them (and an average truck at best) we are hopefully smart enough not to buy it.
There seem to be lots of people getting their knickers in a twist over an advertisement.
LifeMs too short, read or donmt read the article and then move on.
Well, the marketing angle is clearly working to a degree, as lots of members have clearly seen it and, inadvertently or otherwise, probably lifted the article higher in SEO stats somewhere.
Other than that, I don't get all the frustration. It's a means to an end to fund the site. If you don't want to read it and have no interest - there is a relatively simple answer.
The world really is becoming a whiny, moany, bitchy, arrangement of keyboard warriors and 'influencers'.
Sad.
Straight 6? You might be waiting a while…
Sorry i know what I meant in my head.... flat 6
Makes my current vehicle look positively green…
Well bonus points for going for the 'lets off road' wheels and tyres that are arguably essential for driving on the road, and only kill a few more baby Robins that standard wheels and tyres.
As a whole though - good effort marks for full filling the stereotypical MTB'r van life mode 😉
You need 4x4 with the 'roads' around here. Nice truck, balls to haters
I drive a pick-up, 2016 Nissan Navara, because: I live in a very rural area with crap roads, I need to tow trailers quite often, I have a dog that gets very wet and muddy who I don't want in the cabin, I want to move my bikes with relative ease and security, most of my work is on building sites or up rural tracks, I want the ability to carry more than one passenger, and it generally suits my lifestyle.
It does all of that stuff above quite well, I'd need multiple vehicles to cover all bases without a pick-up, and they were relatively cheap when I got mine. It also returns close to 40mpg when driven sensibly.
My friends 2019 focus only does about 45mpg on average, and you can do sod all with it, so I think the Navara is quite good really.
STW'ers gunna STW...
Sweet. I used to love a bit of 4x4 offroading back in the day. Plus none of that electric eco crap either, so you can still get home after your trip to the bikepark.
Glad this is annoying the people on here who thrive on being annoyed 🤣
I’m driving a hilux atm, absolute amazing thing, gets a hard life towing heavy things off road and having heavy things dumped in the back. Would I have one for anything other than the above, hell no! Far better things to drive for the other 99.9% of motoring needs.
Bikes do produce emissions when they are made, disposed of and during operation ie brake dust, tyre wear, oil loss
So no emissions.
Always wanted a mini pickup, the old old ones. Had big ambitions of having a couple of bikes in the load deck and making the cab super luxurious. Well, as luxurious as you could make a mini before it snapped in half.
I'm not arguing that riding a mountain bike doesn't have an impact, of course it does. But ride a mountain bike (or 10) down a muddy byway, then drive a 4x4 down it and look at the difference. Everything has an impact, but if we start going down the "what about... ?" route we'll get nowhere.
Let's not get started on "Fix" the Fells, that's a whole other argument.
And leave beer out of this will you 😉
1.9litre engine? The old Vauxhall Astras from 30years ago had an Izusu 1.9turbo diesel that was bulletproof, I doubt it's the same as this engine. Meh I'm out 🤷♂️
So no emissions
I dunno, recently I had the pleasure of following a mate along a trail who'd eaten two egg mayo rolls for lunch. Jebus. I honestly crashed at one point due to the noxious cloud I rode through. Just a two handed reflex to swipe at the invisible suffocation that gripped me.
The bike smelt sweet like GT85, admittedly.
Everything has an impact, but if we start going down the “what about… ?” route we’ll get nowhere.
It's nothing personal but it's very obvious for most people the whataboutery starts almost precisely in line with those things they don't want to give up.
I mean, someone giving up beer to save the planet is a loon right, but a pint of beer is roughly 25% more co2 than an mile in an average car and I sure as hell don't share my beer. I do think people should drive less though...
I'm at least as bad as anyone else and will willingly admit that my personal outlook on the climate change question is in a large part (maybe minority, maybe 50/50 maybe majority but it's difficult to quantify) formed by the narrative that suits me alongside the data that's available.
Horse vet here, I drive a DMaxx VCross and am very happy with it. Have to cater for two child car seats in the rear. Lockable drawers and canopy in bed with a large amount of bulky medical kit in the back that is carried every day.
Mainly driven on road but will be used at all hours of the day and night on rural roads and farm drives as well as the odd field. If it has flooded or snowed clients still expect you to be able to attend their sick animal. Tow a show trailer weighing 2.8 tonnes on occasion, not much else other than a big 4x4 can tow that legally.
It has done 31mpg loses up for the 12,000 miles have had it.
Could I manage with something else? Yes, sort of, I had a Passat alltrack with winter tyres before but damaged the undercarriage a number of times and the suspension bushing frequently, often couldn’t fit all my kit in which ended up balanced on the kids empty car seats.
Overall a trucks the best solution for me.
And when it’s hundreds, thousands of people after you? Is it OK because you were first but not the person at the back? Is the one who dislodges that rock to blame or the millions that went before? All those paths didn’t get there by accident, they’re not there because of geological aging.
And that’s the thing. Millions of small evils are not good but we’re all busy picking the narrative we like.
And again, either you're not reading what I wrote or you're deliberaly being obstuse.
My entire argument is that things are either sustainable if everyone does it, or it's not.
Anyone who wants to ride the KAW can do it, and it'll make four fiths of f all difference to the trail. A handful of 4x4s on the other hand trash it. Cycling it is sustainable, at least at the current level. If it wasn't then yes maybe there would need to be some sort of management al-la Snowdon.
Ref the farming point, who said fertilizer was unsustainable? It's more energy intensive than not using it but that's not unsustainable.
Unsustainable is saying "well my weatabix required fertilizer, therefore f it I'll buy a 4x4 because I don't want to be a hermit". I don't really car what activities you choose to do. Yo could burn a thousand kilomof baby Robbins in January for all I care as long as you go carbon neutral the other 11 months. I just wish more people took an informed look at it and made some more sustainable choices.
Sustainable is saying you could drive a small car, not take a foreign holiday, turn the thermostat down a bit, go vegetarian and splash outhe remainder of your "sustainable" carbon footprint on a new bike.
It’s nothing personal but it’s very obvious for most people the whataboutery starts almost precisely in line with those things they don’t want to give up.
There's a lot of truth in that. I'm not claiming to be any better either. Globally speaking, everyone on here is likely in the top, I dunno, 5 or 10% of carbon emitters.
a pint of beer is roughly 25% more co2 than an mile in an average car
Good job I don't drink 5,000 pints a year then 🙂
Off-roading IS just a hobby.
This is just a terrible geographic misfire…. Utes / pickups are really popular amongst the MTB community, just not in the UK. The attraction lies in the fact you just throw your rig over the tailgate and keep the mud / dust out of the cab. However they are terrible for off-roading due to the fact the rear suspension is tuned for load carrying. You’re much better off with a Land Cruiser, Patrol etc…. But let’s cut to the chase here, 4wd’ s really have no place in the UK unless you’re a farmer or a planet hating fool. There are no wild places left to drive them and they are unnecessary in a county where all the roads are bituminised.
Good job I don’t drink 5,000 pints a year then
Light weight
unless you’re a farmer or a planet hating foo
Or work anywhere off road or tow a lot.
Thing is we don't live somewhere that a arbortrary line of necessary is drawn by someone who thinks they know all situations.
It's an advert for something that you don't have to buy.
To be fair to the Singletrack staff, they didn't pretend to be particularly concerned about the environment. Hannah is clearly building a van, Amanda would have gone on holiday in a van if it had worked properly and a certain Mr Chippendale turned up to a 6hr race I was doing in a huge and very ugly Cadillac which he parked as in your face as he could.
Half the posters on here have life style vehicles or enjoy spirited driving.
At the end of the day it's a persons own choice what impact they have on the planet and how much they frighten me as they squeeze past.
I have a paticular aversion to being passed at close quarters by large slab sided vehicles and vehicles with large prominent wheels.
If you must drive something like this at least give me space on my bike.
If y'all don't like it, cancel your subs.
I have...
If y’all don’t like it, cancel your subs.
I have…
That’s not very environmentally friendly! Think of all the emissions!
You are allowed to walk on by an advertisement. Just yesterday I saw a billboard advertisement for a product that was not for me. Did I:
A. Think "oh an advert... not for me... but I bet there are people who would love that, cos we are not all the same" and walk past, and you know what... it went away.
B. Stop and stand in the street shouting at it. The advert remained there. It didn't go away. More people gathered and shouted at it. It still would not go away. After a week a man with a ladder came along and covered it with an advert for wonderbras. But again, this advert was not correctly targeted... I don't have lady breasts. but I stayed and looked at it for other reasons.*
*Personal opinion of someone who has worked in advertising.
So the moral of your story is if we complain about the ad more it'll be replaced with adverts for ladies underwear?
"Horse vet here, I drive a DMaxx VCross and am very happy with it. Have to cater for two child car seats in the rear. Lockable drawers and canopy in bed with a large amount of bulky medical kit in the back that is carried every day."
And if a similar advertorial had appeared in Vet Times or Farmers Weekly forums then it would have made a lot more sense than a cycling forum.
As for the nonsense charlie wrote, like most marketeers he doesn't see the bigger picture. There is a huge difference between an advert not appealing to your demographic or taste and one that can cause offence or lead to situations that put people in harms way. I'm glad for my wife and daughters sake that they don't have to put up with billboards like that wonderbra one plastered all over the place despite it not offending my eyes, and again there was literally no reason to post it on here, again despite it being very pleasant to look at from a middle aged mans perspective.
You are allowed to walk on by an advertisement. Just yesterday I saw a billboard advertisement for a product that was not for me.
The British Cycling episode highlights two things:
- there is a difference between marketing and advertising
- people have to decide whether they are trying to 1) build a connection with an audience based on brand values + authentic engagements OR 2) it's just a simple case of jamming your message in front of a certain number of eyeballs (the billboard approach).
There's nothing wrong with #2, but if like Shell/British Cycling you say you're trying to do #1 when you're really doing #2, there can be an authentic negative response. The Dublin football club Bohemians otoh only goes with #1 style partnerships and they say it works really well for them (but they would say that, I suppose...).
Unofficial Partner, the sports business podcast, covers these topics in an interesting and engaging way. They're worth a listen.
Oh the irony. Just one wazzock driver on my commute home and he was in an Isuzu D-Max, reg AU69MOV.
Trucks attact Wazzocks.
Has anyone ordered one yet?
Trucks attact Wazzocks.
Most of us
*Personal opinion of someone who has worked in advertising.
And also a good advertisement for why the whole industry would probably end up on the B-Ark.
I was passed by another one of these on my ride into work this morning. All black, big wheels, the type of vehicle you expect a close pass from. But they stayed well back and when they did come past it was a lovely wide overtake. I was pleasantly surprised and gave a nod of thanks.
As someone who's worked in reputational crisis management and marketing, can I just say bravo to Singletrack for dredging this back up with a half-baked bit of whataboutery.
I notice comments are no longer enabled on the original promotion - this thread has now been separated.
LOL. "Double down folks, double down" .
