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After lots of toing and froing last year I ended up buying a set of TRP EVO Pro....
Beautiful looking things with lots of power, but too much modulation. I don't like the "just touching the disc" feeling. I find I'm on the brakes more because I'm having to pull through more of a "not doing very much" zone. I just fitted the fourth set of new pads on the front after just a few months. Previously had a set of old XT and changed pads maybe two or three times despite riding primarily bike park.
When I hit the brakes it's because I want to slow down proper.
I'm tempted by a set of old school Shimano Saints. Tried and tested. Can be had for 280€ front and rear.
Don't like the new Mavens and have heard several stories of them failing.
Anything else to look at?
Good question, and interested to see what people say.
Currently running XT8000s front and rear, and like them but they're a bit on/off for me.
Before that was running Hope Tech 2s, which again I liked but I found a bit finicky to set up right.
Something between the two would suit me I reckon, but very out of touch with what's good in braking.
Maven's have worked fine for me since buy them over a year ago, and I know they need could be with being bleed to unleash more power (I fitted them out of the box and didn't bother). I would happily fit them to all my bikes.
But you've written them off so whatevers
My MT5 are good. My sons MT7 pro are really nice. Instant stopping power. We both use SLX levers.
I'd go for the Saints. I'm considering doing the same as an upgrade from my M6120s.
Brakes I use, like and would buy again - Maven, Dominion A4, Shigura
but
I'm tempted by a set of old school Shimano Saints
You liked your old Shimano brakes, either go for the old Saints (aware you'll be asking about fitting your shifter mount again) or take a punt on the new Shimano with the low viscosity fluid. Plenty being used in world DH so they surely must be OK and will have the feel you like.
Can't go wrong with the old Saints, if you like the on/off feel (I do too).
I was tempted with them too but then inherited a set of M8120 4-pot XTs on a bike purchase and they've been more than enough for me combined with (IMO) good rotors: XTR MT905s with the cooling fins etc.
Just about to fit Hayes Dominions to my bike… Somewhere inbetween Shimano and SRAM for bite/modulation, but a lighter lever feel than both (lighter even than Trickstuff Maxima’s).
Maven’s seem to have had their fair share of reliability issues (but then so do Shimano with their wandering bite point of recent years!), seems that the more basic Maven “Base” are the ones to go for over the higher spec ones for both lever feel and reliability here…
MT5/7 Pro’s feel nice and plenty of stopping power in reserve with the aftermarket HC3 levers fitted (allows for lots of fine adjustments to feel and power too)… Having tried MT7 calipers fitted to Shimano levers on another friends bike, they were absolutely horrible and I couldn’t recommend them to anybody! They made regular XT’s feel like a paragon of modulation by comparison, they were just totally binary and wooden feeling!
Only had a brief go on the latest Hope GR4’s, and though they felt better than the outgoing Tech4V4’s in terms of power (hard not to really, T4V4’s whilst fantastic in the modulation department were about the most underwhelming brake power wise that I’ve ever owned!)…
I'd go for the Saints. I'm considering doing the same as an upgrade from my M6120s.
Save yourself the expense, fresh bleed and some Sinter Green or CL VRX compound pads (and maybe new rotors) will make more difference… There’s very little performance difference from M6120’s to Saints.
Having tried MT7 calipers fitted to Shimano levers on another friends bike, they were absolutely horrible and I couldn’t recommend them to anybody! They made regular XT’s feel like a paragon of modulation by comparison, they were just totally binary and wooden feeling!
😀 I think that's exactly what I like about them, you've touched the brake you're slowing down! And the abruptness does ease with familiarity, honest. Given alpin's previous posts I wouldn't recommend anything even partly Magura to him though.
Given alpin's previous posts I wouldn't recommend anything even partly Magura to him though.
Why's that then?
Don't get me wrong... The TRPs are good. Just fitted new pads which helps a lot with the feel.
Maybe I'm just jaded after having run Shimano since ~2004.
Formula cura (4's by preference). They have all the power and modulation but they don't have that vague feeling before engaging.
Hope Tech4V4 (or wherever the newer version is) and a thicker rotor (2mm+), having gone from SRAM centreline to the new versions for (unsure of name) it makes a difference. Modulation and power.
SRAM G2 RSC €37 for master cyl / hose / caliper / pads
https://www.raaad.de/products/sram-g2-rsc-scheibenbremse-900-mm-leitung-vorne-ohne-mmx-lenkerklemme-4-kolben?variant=56700931539209&country=DE¤cy=EUR&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23067032100&gbraid=0AAAAAoS0_KTEt2wtD1kl-pjtI4qRgPmNU&gclid=CjwKCAjw1IHTBhAaEiwA4AYNFnbR2KYPL99vJn77YMzsm8osJ-JFx_duBoKzycbgdncoazU5JrsRahoC8AgQAvD_BwE
I'd go for the Saints. I'm considering doing the same as an upgrade from my M6120s.
Save yourself the expense, fresh bleed and some Sinter Green or CL VRX compound pads (and maybe new rotors) will make more difference… There’s very little performance difference from M6120’s to Saints.
I loved the Saints on my old, old bike... but you're right, a fresh bleed and new pads is probably a good shout. I do have Total Bleed Solutions ceramic pads fitted at the moment, which are much better than the stock pads. I had the same brakes with Gorilla Enduro Pro pads and XT Ice Tech rotors on my last bike and they felt better, although the bike was also considerably lighter (non-E).
What you like in a brake appears to be exactly the opposite of what I do so avoid Hope or Hayes, and Shimano seems like the correct choice.
If going Shimano it sounds like the latest XT & XTR 8220/9220 are more modular feeling than the previous 8120/9120 4-pots and less 'on/off' feeling, unsure if this extends to the Saints as it doesn't seem like these get updated as often but could be one to watch out for.
Sounds like the older ones might suit you better, and they'll be cheaper too!
I'm tempted by a set of old school Shimano Saints. Tried and tested.
Do this!
I use them for exactly the reason you describe, plus there is plenty of modulation if you need it.
I loved my Saints.
Changed to SLX 4 pots which weren't bad either.
Now have Hope Tech4 E4's - which I really like, have them set so they're quite on/off like the Shimano.
Only downside with Saints is the shifter integration, otherwise I'd have gone Saints again instead of Hope.
I loved the Saints on my old, old bike... but you're right, a fresh bleed and new pads is probably a good shout. I do have Total Bleed Solutions ceramic pads fitted at the moment, which are much better than the stock pads. I had the same brakes with Gorilla Enduro Pro pads and XT Ice Tech rotors on my last bike and they felt better, although the bike was also considerably lighter (non-E).
eBike makes a BIG difference to slowing a bike down... Go 20mm larger rotor each end to compensate IMO...
That, and I genuinely couldn't believe the difference these pads made over others... https://clbrakepads.co.uk/collections/shimano-caliper-bicycle-racing-brake-pads/products/cl-brakes-4052-vrx-shimano-caliper-competition-bicycle-racing-braking-pads
Why's that then?
Because I find them a little annoying to bleed, the plastic master cylinder set up is not to many peoples liking and you appear to really like your old Shimano set up (still my favourite levers for shape) so I just don't think you'd be happy with them. I could be wrong, I often am 😀
Voting again for recent Hopes, they're costing me a fortune, have shelled out for GR4s, TR4s and V4s upgraded with the new Evo levers in the last year or so. They really are good.
Another vote for Saints here, have them on two bikes and wouldn't swap for anything else. Uberbike race pads (white) make them even better...
I’ve always liked brakes that are said to have modulation - Guides, Codes etc. That said if I ride someone’s bike with Shimano they’re fine as long as they don’t have a variable bite point (most seem to). I got an ebike recently - came with 200mm rotors both ends and DB8s and so far they’re been alright - although I haven’t ridden any sustained steep downhills yet. Just changed the front for a Maven Base and it feels similar but with more power everywhere - I think I’m going to like the Mavens. What is it putting you off them?
If you get on with the Shimano feel then buying Saints seems like a good option tbh.
Slightly wooden, on-off feeling brakes?
Got to be a well bled and functioning set of Shimano brakes of some flavour.
There's only one disc equipped bike with non-Shimano brakes in this household and that's my gravel bike, which is running SRAM Rivals.
Three MTBs on Deores with appropriately larger rotors and the road bike on some Ultegra.
I never find an issue modulating Shimano brakes it's more a pressure change than a finger movement but I like that instant bite.
Disclaimer they're pretty much the only brakes I've used in about 20 years so other options may exist 🙂
I love my saints, but as Dirkpit said iSpec integration on the older Shimano brakes is rubbish. If I was buying now (and had the money) I'd pair saint calipers with the previous gen XTR levers.
Hayes Dominion A4. My current brake of choice. Nothing much to say exept they feel great, are very powerful (on a 28kg Ebike) and always work. Original front pads lasted over a year of hard riding including a trip tot he Alps. All the Shimano brakes I have end up with wandering bite point and constantly bleeding. All my Maguras have been noisy to the point of distraction. Don't like the levers on any of the SRAM brakes I have used.
We both use SLX levers.
Good old Maguras.
Dominion A4 FTW! Wish I'd bought more sets when CRC was giving them away.
My old XTs and deore had the wandering bite. I ran Tech3E4s for years and was happy enough, stopped me well enough. I then dropped on some Tech4E4s and they are noticibly more Shimano stick in the spokes.
The Tech3E4s were upgraded to steel pistons which has improved them.
We both use SLX levers.
Good old Maguras.
Son had the fancy Danny Mac levers and they were great ... but they took a hit.
Saints or Hope V4's
Saints are cheaper. Hopes are better looking.
Saints are no/off. Hopes are more progressive.
Hayes Dominon A4's - my default now.
Previously tried over the years:
- Zees - liked them but way too unreliable. Constantly something wrong with them, usually leaking fluid. Gave up.
- SLX - my old defaults 10 years ago. Solid trail brakes, upgraded to Zees for more power.
- Formula Cura 2 - on my old hardtail and these are excellent. Zero issues in 8+ years use, I don't think they've even needed bled in that time. If the 4 pots are anything like as good, they'll be well worth a look.
- SRAM - I can't get over how crap Avids were and nothing I've tried from SRAM since has changed my mind. Loads seem to love them, but they're not for me.
- Magura MT5 - came on my eBike. Absolutely hateful. I must have a duff set because I can't possibly imagine how anyone could see these as something other than dreadful. Completely transformed my bike when I bit the bullet and replaced them with a set of A4's. Fit for the bin and the bin only.*
(*They are currently sat on my workbench. If anyone would like/benefit from a set of used and hated MT5's, including discs, you can have them for the cost of postage. Drop me a DM and they're yours!)
After lots of toing and froing last year I ended up buying a set of TRP EVO Pro....
Beautiful looking things with lots of power, but too much modulation. I don't like the "just touching the disc" feeling. I find I'm on the brakes more because I'm having to pull through more of a "not doing very much" zone. I just fitted the fourth set of new pads on the front after just a few months. Previously had a set of old XT and changed pads maybe two or three times despite riding primarily bike park.
When I hit the brakes it's because I want to slow down proper.
I'm tempted by a set of old school Shimano Saints. Tried and tested. Can be had for 280€ front and rear.
Don't like the new Mavens and have heard several stories of them failing.
Anything else to look at?
I'm assuming you're running them with 2.3 rotors? I am, but did briefly run them with a set of wheels with 1.8 rotors on and they felt pants.
I've got the TRP Evo Trails (which are very similar if less blingy) and don't have any of the problems you seem to be having.
I'd say modulation is somewhere between the Shimano on/off feeling and Hope's buckets of modulation.....they have a firm feeling at the lever, but enough modulation to be able to feather the brakes if needed.
Also I've found the OEM TRP pads to be great, work well and very long lasting - you are bedding them in properly I hope 😉
@ajantom.... Yip, TRP's own 2.3 rotors.
Bled once when building up the bike a few months back. Simple enough process. Only gripe is that the grub screw isn't as clean a solution as the Shimano nipple when bleeding. It's difficult to stop want leakage.
Another "issue" with the TRP is pad rub. The pistons don't seem to retract fully leading to the pads touching the disc. If you've a solution to this I'm all ears, but it does seem to be a feature. Not much of an issue when putting the bike on the chairlift, but it's noticeable on climbs.
The original pads were changed long ago. Currently running Galfer Performance pads.
Another "issue" with the TRP is pad rub. The pistons don't seem to retract fully leading to the pads touching the disc. If you've a solution to this I'm all ears, but it does seem to be a feature. Not much of an issue when putting the bike on the chairlift, but it's noticeable on climbs.
Weird! I've not had any pad rub at all. Once set up the wheels ran smoothly and no rotor/pad interference.
Have you overfilled slightly when bleeding maybe?
If the pistons weren't fully retracted when bleeding then you'll have too much oil in the system and they'll never fully go back in.
However, I didn't have to bleed mine - they came with the little stoppers in, trimmed to length carefully and then fitted, no fuss.
Have you overfilled slightly when bleeding maybe?
- Bled with a bleed block. Pistons were definitely retracted.
Happy with base level Mavens on my emtb.
Reused the hose from the db8 as well so easy to fit.
Happy with base level Mavens on my emtb.
Reused the hose from the db8 as well so easy to fit.
*They are currently sat on my workbench. If anyone would like/benefit from a set of used and hated MT5's, including discs, you can have them for the cost of postage. Drop me a DM and they're yours!
You have a PM
MT5's now gone to a new home 🙂 Thanks for all the DM's.
Saints ordered at the local french LBS.....
He had a set of previous gen XT for 360€, which he would reduce to 320€.
I enquired about Saints. 250€ per end.
Showed him that they were available online for 299€ the set and asked if it was possible that I get them sent to his shop (I've no address) and I bung him 50€ for his troubles. He said he'd need to speak to his boss.
His boss phoned and said he would sell me Saints for 350€, but he would order them from his distributor and that I should be thankful as he's not making any money on the deal.
Why he didn't agree to ordering from BikeDiscount and pocketing 50€ I don't know, but nor do I care.
It's 350€ either way. Should be here by Saturday or Monday.
Fanks folks!
Another "issue" with the TRP is pad rub. The pistons don't seem to retract fully leading to the pads touching the disc. If you've a solution to this I'm all ears, but it does seem to be a feature. Not much of an issue when putting the bike on the chairlift, but it's noticeable on climbs.
This is the issue i've had with Formula Cura 2s - drives me mad. I've fixed it before a ride, then had to stop half way through a ride to try and remedy and by the end of the ride it's back again. Ended up swapping them onto a less-ridden bike in favour of the Magura.
