[Closed] I am no longer a cyclist.

Someone who rides bikes, occasionally

I got bored after the second sentence.

so, are you a cyclist or someone who rides bikes?

I'm not sure theres a difference. Google tells me this:

cyclist
?s??kl?st/Submit
noun
a person who rides a bicycle.

So I think I'm a cyclist. And you are too.

0/10 you even used normal sentences and paragraphs FFS!

Great stigmatising there OP!

You'll be saying "all drivers..." next 🙄

As soon as everyone starts to realise that 'Cyclists' are just 'people riding bikes' rather than something to fear or be angry about (I include 'Cyclists' in this too) I'm sure riding bikes in the UK will become a much better and nicer thing to do.

Does the irony of you disassociating yourself with the above in writing an angry rant about cyclists not dawn on you?

I think you need to re-visit the bit about most of europe too, a lot of european cities are leagues ahead of us on bike related matters primarily because they do treat cyclists differently and allow them extra protection from cars and pedestrians.

Those bike riders all jump red lights and ride on the pavement. They should have to pay road tax, have insurance and pass a test before they're allowed on the road.

Might have take you seriously if you'd said it in the chat forum, but you said it in the bike forum so...

I'm going to stick my head above the parapet and agree with the OP. I had exactly the same thought a year or two ago and since them I've tried not to refer to myself as a cyclist.

I read something James May had said which is interesting, regardless of whether you like him or Top Gear:
"People on bikes are just pedestrians who've improved their efficiency."
(or words to that effect)

I don't ride on the road camera'd up.
I do commute, mostly through country lanes, which is a longer route than the dual carriage way, and if a van or car is up behind me, I pull in and wave them through. My destination time is never critical to within 10 minutes either way, I leave home with ample time.
If there is a decent cycle lane adjacent to a road, I will use it rather than the road.
If a car passes too close, I suck it up and move on. There are pricks everywhere.
I don't spend my entire ride close to meltdown shouting out peoples number plates like a crazed train spotter.

I am a person who loves riding, building, maintaining, discussing bikes of all disciplines.

I am not a cyclist.

I used to ride motorcycles but never referred to myself as a biker. I used to ride motorcycles as a main mode of transport.
I did not try to not the rev limiter like it took a special skill that would impress other men.
I did not spend my recreational riding time sat outside a café looking at rows of almost identical Fireblades.
I did not ride in a daisy chain of skin tight leather following my mated arse around the bypass.

I am not a biker

'got to get where I'm going as fast a possible and to hell with anyone in my way' MAMILs

Bit odd I've never seen anyone drive a car in lycra 😀

Nice rant though. You really should get out more though if this sort of thing causes you so much stress that you have to write an essay on an internet forum.

so, are you a cyclist or someone who rides bikes?

I'm a mountain biker 😉

I think I can see where the op is coming from and agree with the sentiment. "Cyclist" used to be a word to describe someone who rides a bike, now it's become a pejorative term meaning sub human mobile road blocks, hell bent on irritating drivers and killing old ladys.

It now carries a stigma that it didn't have before, like immigrant.

graduation to grumpy and old?

Je suis cycliste

I'm not a motorist, I just drive a car.

Nice rant though. You really should get out more though if this sort of thing causes you so much stress that you have to write an essay on an internet forum.

I've been grumpy & old for years.

#bloodybikeriders

after taking a picnic with me on a sportive & riding with flat bars on my road bike I'm not sure "cyclists" would want me in their "club" anyway

Interesting post and something I wrote about in a FB group recently. I certainly don't think of myself as a "cyclist" - for me, the word conjures up images of either lycra, those slightly beardy wierdy types in every city (not quite hipsters but not far off) who use it as a bit of a badge, or the ones who jump lights, use helmet cams and come across a bit holier than thou.

I'm definitely a mountain biker - and always have been, feeling a much closer allegiance to action sports than cycling sport.

#definitelynotacyclist

I used to be a mountain biker. I love the sport and will return in the future once mini teadrinkers get a bit older and I have more time I can dedicate to the sport. For now and the foreseeable future I am and will happily continue to be a gnarmacer.

+1 for the problem here being your own attitude...

'cyclist Vigilantes' riding around with their helmet cams thinking they're gods gift to traffic policing and the depressing & embarrassing videos that are the outcome, the 'Cyclists don't pay road tax' arguments, the 'got to get where I'm going as fast a possible and to hell with anyone in my way' MAMILs

Unfortunately this is the same kind of sweeping, prejudiced generalisation that those who hate cycling and cyclists come from...

If you want to be happy riding a bike, maybe examine your own beliefs and perspective first?

If you want to beat prejudice and hatred, begin with yourself...

If you want cycling to become a mass participation activity in the UK then the first thing to do is ride your bike as much as you can. The second is to espouse the benefits as much as you can, be an evangelist and a positive role model. The third is to give financial support to all those who are fighting on behalf of cycling - British Cycling, CTC, LCC etc

Cycling is going through massive growth at the moment, that's why some people have a problem with it - they're scared of change and want things to stay as they are. They're stupid, nothing ever stays the same for ever... and in any case, self-driving cars are well on the way and they'll remove the conflict at a stroke.

The more anti those people get, the more determined I am to stand up for cycling and to be called a cyclist. I can understand your negativity but you need to beat it, otherwise the bullies win.

People who ride bicycles in, wanting to dissociate themselves from negative stereotype "bad cyclist". Shocker?

[i] if a van or car is up behind me, I pull in and wave them through[/i]

Which "they" (yes, they, the opposition) then expect from every person on a bike, whether they be cyclists or the pretentious prats that say they aren't cyclists even though they are cycling.

I'm a cyclist and I friggin OWN THE ROAD.

if a van or car is up behind me, I pull in and wave them through

Is also not what you get taught in a Bikeability course...

I can't deny what you've noticed OP the meaning given to the term "Cyclist" in the media, through the associated language and context, it's seldom used in most major news channels or social media in a positive context...
Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with being a cyclist, it just means a large portion of society is wrong... wouldn't be the first time.

I for one am a cyclist.... as well as driver/pedestrian/parent/white/middle-class/middle-income... or any other "de-humanising", context specific group/labels anyone chooses to apply to me...

Some labels are easier to disassociate yourself from than others, get off the bike and you can shed the "Cyclist" label, it's probably a bit harder than that for people unfairly labelled/judged by their ethnicity...

I'd rather wear the term "Cyclist" with a bit of pride TBH, bollocks to anyone who thinks I should somehow be ashamed of riding a bicycle!

For every negative point pitched in the direction of cyclists I'm sure we can all come up with some positives... you don't have to descend down to the Punch and Judy level with people who've already made their minds up...

I've had enough of the 'Car V's Cyclist' wars, all the 'cyclist Vigilantes' riding around with their helmet cams thinking they're gods gift to traffic policing and the depressing & embarrassing videos that are the outcome, the 'Cyclists don't pay road tax' arguments, the 'got to get where I'm going as fast a possible and to hell with anyone in my way' MAMILs and so I've have finally decided to disassociate myself from everything 'Cyclist' related.

So they've won in your case then OP? Between You-tube the DM, and that gobby Clarksonite **** at work, they've successfully painted a skewed picture based on a minority of people who ride bicycles, and a fair chunk of Narrow-minded Prejudice and rather than simply say;

[i]"No, I am a cyclist and your stereotyping doesn't apply to me, or most other cyclists, we are simply people who use bicycles and we deserve the basic human respect and dignity as any other group"[/i]

Your just going to give in and try to pass yourself off as a "Normal" to avoid the odd minor bit of conflict....

Fair enough...

Well said cookeaa - it's not the word or description 'cyclist' that is the problem.
We should reclaim it and ALL wear tshirts like this:
[img] [/img]

Am I allowed to be a mountain cyclist?

(As someone who rides bikes - no label required - I do baulk when I see a rider in town with a go pro on. Hello, I am looking for trouble.......)

Only when you're not infecting their roads with your filthy presence.

if a van or car is up behind me, I pull in and wave them through

Is also not what you get taught in a Bikeability course...

I have not done a bikeability course, clearly.

So if you are in single lane, with passing places, road and queue of cars and vans is building up behind you, you would just 'take primary' and let them all sit there?

You sir are a cyclist of the type that I am referring to not associate myself with. Surely, we all need to rub along regardless of what mode of transport we choose. To behave like a deliberately obstructive dick because your 'bikeability' course says you can is similar in ignorance to other road users arguments about they have right of way because tax.

Anyway, I only hold traffic up on long climbs and am often glad of the rest. 😀

[i] teamhurtmore - Member
Am I allowed to be a mountain cyclist?[/i]

Yup! Just don't wear lycra, cameras and don't have any disagreements with drivers of motorised vehicles.

After that, you can call yourself, whatever you want to.

😀

Labelling yourself is crackers, being labelled is even more apalling. Other peoples need to categorise does not define me, I have been variously labelled in the past as:

Surfer/bodyboarder/sharkbiscuit
Cyclist
Mum/Mother
Lady who lunches
Lesbian/dyke
Straight
Bitch
Housewife
educator
welsh nationalist
walker

I do not identify with any of these, I am me, I have done those things above (well not all of them, but I might), but what I do does not define me.

I started cycling with it was a way of getting around for students and elderly eccentrics.
I'm still a "cyclist" but need to distance myself from all the lawyers, estate agents and BBC presenters like Jeremy Vine who have since adopted it as a mode of transport.
Things aint how they used to be!

So if you are in single lane, with passing places, road and queue of cars and vans is building up behind you, you would just 'take primary' and let them all sit there?

I think you've conflated 'pull in' with 'passing places'

If there are designated passing places like on a narrow country lane then if you're the slower vehicle (tractor/horse/bike/milkfloat/whatever) and there's sufficient room to let another vehicle through safely then you would 'pull in' to the passing place.

But on a normal road if there's room to pass safely then there is room to pass, if you have to 'pull in' (ie: to the kerb/gutter) to let another vehicle pass then there wasn't room for them to pass safely in the first place.

^ two very different cases

In the first case I would pull in, regardles of which vehicle I'm in/on at the time, in the second case I might, I might not, depending on the situation.

To behave like a deliberately obstructive dick because your 'bikeability' course says you can is similar in ignorance to other road users arguments about they have right of way because tax

I have not done a bikeability course, clearly.

clearly... perhaps you should book on one to find out what it's all about, you might learn something.

and to answer the OP:

I'm a person. Sometimes I ride a bike, sometimes I walk, sometimes I drive a car, sometimes I ride horse, sometimes I tricycle, sometimes I skip. I like to be safe and treated with the respect I show others regardless of my mode of travel at the time.

Only two of those modes of transport are regularly treated with aggression and anger, regularly abused, put in danger and persecuted on our streets. That's why I support and help campaign for change. Not because I am a 'cyclist' but because that's no way to treat other people.

So if you are in single lane, with passing places, road and queue of cars and vans is building up behind you, you would just 'take primary' and let them all sit there?

You sir are a cyclist of the type that I am referring to not associate myself with. Surely, we all need to rub along regardless of what mode of transport we choose. To behave like a deliberately obstructive dick because your 'bikeability' course says you can is similar in ignorance to other road users arguments about they have right of way because tax.

You've made a massive judgement about me there based on the fact I pointed out that Bikeability doesn't teach you to pull in every time there's traffic behind you, which is true... thanks for the judgementalism and calling me a dick... that helps solve the problem doesn't it?

You've used an extreme example to make your point to nicely set yourself up for the win, which is no way reflects the basic factual point I made...

If we can't use Bikeability as a benchmark for being a skilled rider, what else do you suggest we use as a guide? Our own opinions based on our own values and desire to please others? You think your ideas about cycling well are better informed than trained cycle coaches, employed by the Government? It's random cycling styles that lead to a lot of confusion amongst drivers. If we all rode to Bikeability standards, riding styles would be far more consistent and predictable for drivers.

FWIW my riding style is based on the specific circumstances. When I decide it's safer for me to ride primary, I ride primary. When I think it's safer or helpful to pull in, I'll pull in. Or, because I'm not a simpleton I can put the two together - ride primary to prevent a dangerous overtake, and when it's safe for traffic to pass (according to my judgement) I'll wave a thank you and move over. Most of the time, I get a thank you back. I'm safe, the driver's safe, oncoming traffic is safe and there's been a nice bit of human interaction... wins all round.

btw, thanks Amedias.

[i]So if you are in single lane, with passing places, road and queue of cars and vans is building up behind you, you would just 'take primary' and let them all sit there?[/i]

All I can say is: it depends.

I don't like the labelling cos we're all people and we should get on.

However the angry men with cameras are a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself. They may annoy people, but if we're going to do labels and moaning about things I think we should start with something more important than being annoying/moany or - heaven forbid - wanting to get where we're going before we die of old age.

Let's try starting with "does this group of people kill and maim thousands a year", or "does this group of people bully and intimidate others off the roads"

It's a bit of a holier than thou cyclist thing to say, but it's true so I'll say it - cyclists are far safer to pedestrians than cars are, and so many people are frightened to ride on the road due to the inconsiderate selfish actions of a significant minority of drivers. From personal experience they act like this to anyone on two wheels - whether in lycra, casual clothes, baggies, riding a road bike or a mountain bike or with a kiddie trailer attached.

Now I've thought about it, yes, I'm a cyclist. And because of that I'll tell people why cyclists sometimes appear to be being inconsiderate (usually because the roads are poorly designed and there's no space to pass) and let them know that they're being a massive idiot if they take risks because they're in such a massive rush to get to the next traffic lights.

I'm also a motorist who tries to be considerate to more vulnerable road users because, well, I'm not a bully and it's never ever made me take longer to get where I'm going.

I'm a proud and unrepentant cyclist.

Why shouldn't I be?

When commuting I use my wits, legs, heart and lungs (but mainly my wits) to get from A to B pretty much as quickly (sometimes quicker) than people using cars.

If anyone doesn't like it they can kiss my well toned arse.

And if anyone wants to join me then the more the merrier. All you need is a bike and the imagination to realise that its okay to choose another way to get about.

Thanks amedias, the 2 different cases that you describe do illustrate what I do I guess. I don't pull in until I get to the passing place and I very rarely get drivers trying to bully their way through when it isn't safe.
I have recently started commuting by bike again as my kids child care now allow me the extra time in the mornings and evenings that is required. I have to say I have had nothing but really good positive and understanding interactions will all drivers. Getting flashed through by oncoming drivers tends to make me look to see where the car behind my that I have not heard yet, but no, often they are flashing me through. This is new experience for me and one that I hope continues.

clearly... perhaps you should book on one to find out what it's all about, you might learn something.

Other than the cycling proficiency that I did in 1982, the motorcycle test I did in 1990 and the thousands of commuting miles I did in the 1990's, early noughties, I have had no road cycling test credentials.
I will look into the Bikeability course on your recommendation. I am always open to learning. I even saw great value in the 'driver awareness' course I did a few years ago which most people seem to poopoo as a waste of time.

I no longer use the word 'cyclist' and I largely agree that it is dehumanising, setting us apart as 'other'. All those tweets from morons that start 'I hit a cyclist today lol' would sound less of laugh if they were 'I hit a man/woman riding a bike today'.

http://www.peopleforbikes.org/blog/entry/how-smart-language-helped-end-seattles-paralyzing-bikelash

[i]I'm also a motorist who tries to be considerate to more vulnerable road users because, well, I'm not a bully and it's never ever made me take longer to get where I'm going.[/i]

Ooh no! You can't call yourself a "motorist". A good 90% of 'them' are arseholes and you've just lumped yourself in the same category.

Other than the cycling proficiency that I did in 1982, the motorcycle test I did in 1990 and the thousands of commuting miles I did in the 1990's, early noughties, I have had no road cycling test credentials.
I will look into the Bikeability course on your recommendation. I am always open to learning. I even saw great value in the 'driver awareness' course I did a few years ago which most people seem to poopoo as a waste of time.

Good stuff Jef 🙂 It's well worth it, you might find that it opens your eyes to new ideas, new perspectives and new techniques. On the other hand you might find it teaches you nothing new at all, but if that's the case it will at least reassure you that you do know what you're doing. At the very least I would think it will remind you of some things you did already know.

It is the default standard that is used in the UK to teach kids too, so well worth while to know what will get taught to your own kids if they ever go on a course and allow you to reinforce it and add your own thoughts and interpretation to what they might learn, and remind them that as I'm sure you've found, you never stop learning even if you have every qualification going.

It is very much about travelling efficiently but in safety, not just recognising danger, but also teaching skills for how to actively prevent dangerous situations from happening, and accidentally putting yourself in them. Sometimes that is about taking charge of your position and being assertive, and sometimes it's about yielding, as always there's more shades of grey than an E.L James novel 😉

I recently did one of the Sutrans Ride Leader courses as it was a requirement to allow me to lead group rides under their banner with the charity I volunteer with, and despite having been riding since my pre-teens, racing and commuting, and being well aware of bikeability and other schools of thought I found it reminded me of just how daunting riding, route planning, interpreting junctions and traffic flows can be for a novice rider, something that everyone should remember, not everyone is as skilled or experienced and what might seem obvious or easy to you might not be to another rider.

I understand the OP's point but if they recognise all the nonsense about the Motorist vs Cyclist wars, "road tax", and the problems with out-group mentality and labelling then why not say:

[i]"I am no longer a motorist"[/i]?

Cyclists (and people who ride bikes sometimes) are [i]starting[/i] to make some changes in this country. They are [i]starting[/i] to be heard. The fact there are so many news stories and "anti" sentiment about is just evidence of that.

I will look into the Bikeability course on your recommendation. I am always open to learning.

[url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cyclecraft-complete-enjoyable-cycling-children/dp/0117037400 ]Cyclecraft[/url]

Well worth a read too. Gives you more time to reflect on what you get taught in the few hours of a Bikeability session

Looking at the price of the Trek bike on the home page I can't afford to be a cyclist any more.

I love it when somebody pokes the hornets nest with a big stick, now we have the swarm of cyclist circling for the kill, pesky things, nothing a good skip lorry with a billion blind spots couldn't get rid of.

I no longer use the word 'cyclist' and I largely agree that it is dehumanising, setting us apart as 'other'. All those tweets from morons that start 'I hit a cyclist today lol' would sound less of laugh if they were 'I hit a man/woman riding a bike today'.

Now [i]this[/i] I agree with. As one of those ranty campaigner types that the OP dislikes I often deliberately say "person on a bike" instead of "cyclist" when discussing issues with [i]fellow road users[/i] because the term "cyclist" is so loaded with subtext and it's often disarming to remind them that it's just someone's dad/brother/son trying to get home from work, same as them.

Oh, and I am a mountain biker. However, I do not live within cycling distance of any mountains.

I used to get told off for calling my bike a 'mountain bike' by a guy I used to work with.
"It is not a mountain bike as we do not ride on mountains down here in Hampshire. It is an all terrain bicycle".
Yup, he was weird as hell.

[i] Yup, he was weird as hell.[/i]

He'll fit right in, round these parts.
😉

As one of those ranty campaigner types that the OP dislikes

The word "cyclist" undoubtedly greases the wheels of division. It's a label for a minority, an outgroup, and you only have to look at [url= http://singletrackworld.com/columns/2015/06/bez-them-and-us/ ]how it is used alongside "them"[/url], for instance, to see how it's used to dehumanise and to reinforce people's disdain.

It matters little whether you struggle to see past its sterile, contextless dictionary definition: it's part of the armoury of the bigot, and whether you'd prefer to reclaim the word or consign it to the bin or you're ambivalent about it, I think it needs to be recognised that in almost all contexts it becomes divisive and unhelpful, and it hinders progress.

Err.. where did I say I disliked ranty campaigners?

Well you specifically cited the [i]"'Cyclists don't pay road tax' arguments"[/i] - something I regularly bat down when discussing cycling with [i]other road users[/i].

..you only have to look at how it is used alongside "them", for instance, to see how it's used to dehumanise and to reinforce people's disdain.

Yay Bez is here 😀

[img] [/img]

Yep, the classic example is that the headlines are always "Cyclist Hit By Car" and never "Cyclist Hit By Motorist" or "Bicycle Hit By Car".

@corroded

That Seattle article is actually very interesting, it really drives home the idea that the language/phraseology used is almost more important than the points you are making...

Living in the age of the quick sound-bite, making sure the messages that get across are more generally positive and less polarising is actually surprisingly difficult...

We're almost all programmed now to make any discussion into an [i]"X Vs Y"[/i] argument, the things you re in favour of meaning the things you are "Against" can be neatly correlated and implied for you...

Remaining strong willed and actually training yourself to use only positive, carefully selected language is a challenge...

The "Conversation" here in the UK is not like that presently, I think it could change, but it needs some careful thought and the right spokespersons/advocates for those other "transport choices"....

This all comes back to the OP's sentiment, the current narrative portrayed through the press is quite narrow and doesn't give a rounded picture... Hence I can sort of understand his feelings, If you give up the term [i]"Cyclist"[/i] I think you need to adopt [i]"[u]Person[/u] who rides Bicycles"[/i] instead.

Did anyone hear about some mentalist from the Prudential Ride 100 yesterday? There was an individual(on a bike) trying to hit people with a hammer. This was a real hammer by the way, not a toy one.

This was around Forest Green I believe. One of the marshalls told me. Luckily, the police caught him. Incredible that this doesn't appear to have made the news anywhere.

The person involved obviously didn't like "cyclists" either.

Yep, the classic example is that the headlines are always "Cyclist Hit By Car" and never "Cyclist Hit By Motorist" or "Bicycle Hit By Car".

True, though I think that's probably born of simple awkwardness of the terminology rather than even a subconscious bias: "bicycle hit by car" sounds a bit odd as it makes it seem like there was no-one on the bicycle, while "cyclist hit by motorist" arguably implies blame. Fundamentally, such a collision does generally [i]physically[/i] involve the "cyclist" and the car but not the "motorist", regardless of where fault lies. There are a lot of problematic phrasings that get used in reporting but IMHO this particular one is relatively low on the list.

Well you specifically cited the "'Cyclists don't pay road tax' arguments" - something I regularly bat down when discussing cycling with other road users.

It's the pointless one side against another arguing that I'm getting disillusioned about, the proper campaigning by organisations such as, but not limited to, CTC (and yes, I am a member and have been for over 20 years) I am all for.

If people stopped arguing and started looking perhaps they'd stop seeing the cyclist and start seeing people on bikes.

A couple of times in this thread there have been allusions to 'them winning' (I'm paraphrasing here). What have 'they' won? It's not a war why is it always seen as 'them' and 'us', why not just 'We'?

There was an individual(on a bike) trying to hit people with a hammer.

Uh huh?

[img] [/img]

I've never been a cyclist. I have very little in common with cyclists other than I enjoy riding my bike. Many 'cyclists' take themselves far too seriously and just seem like tits to me.

True, though I think that's probably born of simple awkwardness of the terminology rather than even a subconscious bias: "bicycle hit by car" sounds a bit odd as it makes it seem like there was no-one on the bicycle, while "cyclist hit by motorist" arguably implies blame. Fundamentally, such a collision does generally physically involve the "cyclist" and the car but not the "motorist", regardless of where fault lies. There are a lot of problematic phrasings that get used in reporting but IMHO this particular one is relatively low on the list.

It's using the the word [i]"Hit"[/i] as well, [i]"Collide/Collision"[/i] implies less blame:

[i]"Motorist and person on bicycle involved in a collision"[/i]

Is about as neutral as you could hope to make such a statement/headline...

It is funny how corrosive "cyclist" can be.

Newcastle Council have recently activated cameras on a few [b]bus[/b] lanes, so they can fine the drivers who ignore them.

Despite the fact that this measure is targeted at drivers performing illegal manoeuvres and the fact that these lanes are reserved for buses, taxis, motorcycles, authorised vehicles [i]and cyclists[/i], guess which group gets the slagging* in the comments?

* (road tax, insurance, lycra clad, Tour de France wannabes, three abreast, no license, no plates, holding up traffic, being illegal, blah blah blah)

I've never been a cyclist. I have very little in common with cyclists other than I enjoy riding my bike. Many 'cyclists' take themselves far too seriously and just seem like tits to me.

You probably have more in common than you think you do.

[img] [/img]

I think it's plain to see which side if the fence you fall on though... 😯

And I feel weird....
Been really tired today, and as a result of loads of 'other' thing that needed doing I've not been out for my normal Sunday ride today and it's put me in a really funny mood
Kinda weird mix between itchy feet and being glad of the rest, and feeling guilty (?!) Out of curiosity I checked my Strava log for 2015 and this is only the 9th day in 2015 that I've not ridden a bike, so appears I'm suffering some kind of withdrawal.
Anyone else struggle if they have a day off?

If there is a negative connotation with the term "cyclist" then it needs to be challenged not accepted

Otherwise where does it end?

"Oh look there's one of those bloody people who ride bikes!"

Slight clumsier than "Bloody cyclist!" I admit but I don't think changing the phraseology changes the prejudice.

We should challenge the prejudice instead.

And yes I am comfortable with being a "cyclist"

Loddrik what I mean is that you and the hypothetical cyclist are both people, with parents, spouses, children? friends, family, you both have hobbies you like, places to go, people to see, things to do.

Just because they might put some of their energy and passion into one activity more than you might, doesn't mean you have nothing in common, and labelling them as different/outsiders who you have no common ground with is exactly the kind of thing we're discussing.

I think in the grand scheme of things you would find many more similarities than differences, and to coin a phrase "can't we all just get along?"

...stuff about me...

since when have arguments been campaigning?

It's the pointless one side against another arguing that I'm getting disillusioned about, the proper campaigning by organisations such as, but not limited to, CTC

Us vs Them tribalism doesn't help, agreed, but to my mind there is no point in groups like the CTC being a lone voice in the wilderness.

The message that CTC and other campaigns have [i]needs[/i] to be repeated by others if it has any hope of being heard. After all, how many non-cyclists read CTC material?

The "road tax" misconception is an interesting example, as recently I've noticed that [i]other road users[/i] are more knowledgeable about the fact that it "doesn't exist".

I think this is probably due to people shooting down that popular misconception so often that is has made national news on a few occasions:

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23694438 ]BBC: Is there any such thing as 'road tax'?[/url]
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-living-blog/2010/mar/18/cyclists-road-tax-drivers ]The Guardian: Cyclists are not road tax dodgers[/url]
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/bike-blog/2015/jul/03/road-tax-red-lights-and-lycra-the-cycling-ignorance-quiz ]The Guardian: Road tax, red lights and lycra: the cycling ignorance quiz[/url]
[url= http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3311131.ece ]The Times: Cyclists and “road tax”: the truth[/url]

So the truth of the situation has slowly entered the popular psyche.

(Just in time for Gideon to [url= http://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2015/jul/09/road-tax-rears-its-ugly-head-again-for-englands-cyclists ]move the goalposts[/url])

I'm having an identity crisis, sometimes I drive a car, and sometimes I ride a bike, if that wasn't bad enough, I've also been known to walk, row a boat and ski.

I'm really struggling to pigeon hole myself.. Maybe I should see a shrink 😀

On a more serious not, the notion is ridiculous, anyone who is riding a bike is a cyclist, just as any one who is driving is a driver.