Just had an interesting chance encounter with the fabled 'log man' of our local woods/trails.
...if you trepass, say on fc land you are not supposed to do, is it a civil or criminal offence? I am talkng about riding not digging, and straying off a public bridleway not busting through a fence.
...and is there any difference legally speaking between the 'wrongness' of riding a bike where you shouldn't, riding a horse where you shouldn't and riding a motocross bike where you shouldn't?
thanks all.
fc land is owned by the people therefore its yours to be in 🙂
...ummm, its on a 100 year lease to the FC from another local (private) estate. Does that make a difference?
My understanding is that on FC/E managed land of the public forest estate you have a free right of access so long as you don't build trails. I could be wrong, it might matter if it's part of the public estate or not.
Whatever, riding around is a civil issue for damages, being a cock with logs with the intent to cause harm is most likely to be some form of criminal offence (or have I read the OP wrong?).
What everyone else said. It's a civil offence, not a criminal one (riding motorbikes off roads or byways is a criminal offence). If he's got a problem with you riding there, tell him to speak to the ranger, that should shut him up.
Alternatively put on your best Richard E Grant voice, and tell him you're a multi-millionaire and you're going to buy the woods and have them knocked down.
Trespass is a funny one, you have you have intent to damage, not just be there.
Cheeky Monkey, you haven't read the op wrong. Log man also seems to work in an unpaid capacity for the FC. Not sure if he is responsible for the most life-threatening logs but has admitted to burying/logging a couple of classic trails I was well fond of/may have err, not impeded the building of (not that I mentioned that bit). He had a few things to say about use of the woods which i was not entirely convinced upon.
FWIW, I think he was a little bit suprised to hear that we also walk dogs and our children in the woods, are well into our thirties and pick up litter.
Jules, I just emailed Carl regarding this, echoing the sentiments regarding public land already mentioned here. Seriously worrying considering I'm probably going to move back to That Plymouth soon. Carl told me that Log man reckons biking will be banned from Cann.
I wasn't aware that Mr. Log worked for the FC. Should we be speaking to someone in an official capacity regarding his behaviour?
He had a few things to say about use of the woods which i was not entirely convinced upon.
What things were these?
MR Agreeable ??
It's legal to ride a road legal motorbike on a BOAT or RUPP (*or whatever they've been renamed).
I didn't think it was a criminal offence to ride on public land (unless it is a publc ROW subject to a TRO)
Your best bet is to make contact with FC.
Someone blocking trails with logs and working for the FC (I bet he isn't) will be happy to give you his name, and the name of the person he reports to at FC. I'm betting that Forestry will be very interested in hearing about someone who seems to be sabotaging trails and endangering other trail users deliberately.
We've had similar issues on the North Downs, and landowners take it very seriously. Stick Man (For it is he 'round this neck of the woods) has been caught blocking trails before, and had it pointed out that the landowners and police are very keen to speak to people found sabotaging trails, as it amounts to criminal damage and (since people have been injured) assault.
The people who do this sort of thing tend to be officious numpties who have nothing to do with the land owner or manager. I'm assuming, of course, that the trails are not being blocked using a chainsaw or earth moving equipment, which is most landowners' method of blocking naughty stuff. If he's putting fallen logs and branches across a trail, he's likely to be a jobsworth.
If he's putting fallen logs and branches across a trail, he's likely to be a jobsworth.
...that is the impression I get. A close friend works for the FC at Great Wood in the 'tox and when they wanted rid of some dangerous trails they did it within about ten days IIRC, and they did it 'properly' ie big holes and earth moving equipment etc. Same has happened more recently with the old red trail at Haldon.
Although he did tell me a rather worrying tale of a horserider injured when someone apparently mis-timed a road gap over the public bridleway she was using. Apparently she is suing (not sure if its the FC or the Dirt-Merchant who collided with her). That must be putting the wind up them.
As others have said, Jules, we need to take this up with official FC staff.
Alternatively put on your best Richard E Grant voice
I already have one of these.
I think on FC land you have the permissive right to ride on any of the made up roads, e.g. fireroads but you do not have the inherent right to ride where you like on FC land.
fc land is owned by the people therefore its yours to be in
That's is utter gibberish.
As for log man, unless he has a mandate from the land owner he's probably more in the wrong for blocking the trails than you are for riding them.
With respect, this:
I think on FC land you have the permissive right to ride on any of the made up roads, e.g. fireroads but you do not have the inherent right to ride where you like on FC land.
Is fundmentally at odds with the statement made to me by a senior environmental/recreational bod from FE. I admit I could well have it a bit arse about face and would be happy to be corrected / pointed to something definitive. Which raises the age old point, how come none of us (unless Colin P is around 😉 really know what we're "entitled" to on FE managed land?
As for log man I think a number of people have given good advice in how to deal with him. However, in one instance of threats to MTBing etc in a Yorkshire Wood FE asked the legitimate volunteer trail builders to stop work rather than (IMO) what they should have done and taken the NIMBY to one side and explained pointedly just how out of order he was.
fc land is owned by the people therefore its yours to be inThat's is utter gibberish.
I accept it's not practically possible but sometimes I think our land managers should bear the possiblities and opportunites for the wider recreational and social uses of the public forest estatemore more in mind (than I think they do). Whilst I don't exactly agree with the wording I agree with the (perceived) sentiment. Disclaimer - land in private ownership but managed by FE is quite probably different.
It's a tricky one. You might find disturbing the ground to make a shallow grave for him is a criminal offence if the wood is also an SSSI.
It's legal to ride a road legal motorbike on a BOAT or RUPP (*or whatever they've been renamed).
Yeah, hence I said "road or byway".
IanMunro, if you restore the site afterwards and replant with native species, I don't see any problem with that.
is this cann? there have been rumours about biking being banned in cann for as long as I can remember. I think the first time I rode DH there was 1995/6?
the forestry might throw a hissy fit and knock some stuff down but they'll never stop it. too much access, too many people.
they did similar at triscombe a few years back, knocked down all the obvious stuff over a couple of days. To be honest it did the place good, it had been getting stale. A year or so on and there are more tracks than ever there but they have used the terrain better so they can't be knocked down.
Is fundmentally at odds with the statement made to me by a senior environmental/recreational bod from FE
I've been trying to find FC policy documents but am struggling so far. I picked up the info from a link on another thread on here. The rights of access act of 2005 gave pedestrians pretty much full access but as we well know cyclists aren't covered by that act. If I find the document I'll link up to it here.
is this cann? there have been rumours about biking being banned in cann for as long as I can remember. I think the first time I rode DH there was 1995/6?
It is Cann. Strangely, Mr. Log has been applying his handywork to the less-invasive and well-hidden xc trails, whilst leaving the hideously ugly, poorly built freeride stuff unscathed.