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Further to my rim thread I thought I’d start a hub thread for good measure.
I’ve currently got 148x12 boost rear on my bike but 100x 15 non boost at the front.
Im looking for decent quality hubs for my new wheel build without going mental on cost. Max price £200-£250 for a pair of hubs. I’d ideally like the fronts to be convertible for boost if necessary - although no plans to change the fork out.
Hope look a good choice but I think the rear hub maybe too noisy for my liking. The DT Swiss e1900 wheelset noise is fine but I wouldn’t want a much louder freewheel.
Dt Swiss 350 I think can come in budget but may lack the convertibility to boost on the front hub at a later date. I want black (subtle looking) hubs so could go Hope front / DT rear for example though.
Also waiting to see how Superstar V6 hubs turn out but I don’t think they’re available yet.
Anything else to consider?
Shimano XT. Not convertible but you'll get both front AND rear hubs for less than £100 and they'll go on forever.
All good options - The DTs are convertible via MRP Better Boost convertors just so you know.
Had DT Swiss 350 hubs (non boost) for two years and they were absolutely faultless, think i removed the freehub once to clean them and they didn't need it
Built a new bike with boost spacing so new wheels were in order
Originally i wanted another set of DT Swiss 350's in boost but nowhere seemed to have them in their wheel build option for a reasonable price so i opted for the hope pro 4's instead (on stans flow mk3 rims)
Have run the Hope Pro 4's (boost) for the last 2 months, initial impressions are good, freehub is a little noisier but you soon get used to it and don't notice it too much
One thing to remember is if you have Rockshox forks and you go for the hope hubs you might want to buy Hope's Torque end caps to help fitting the wheel in the fork a little easier
Aren't Superstar hubs just rebranded Novatec hubs?
The new Superstar V6 is made in the uk - they’ve designed and machined them here - so meant to be a good step up from their novatec rebranded offering. Too early for reviews yet though.
And cheers Ben - that puts the 350 front hub higher up the list (although having just upgraded fork internals I don’t plan to swap them out for boost anytime soon!).
Just to add it’ll be a 32 hole j bend / 3 cross wheel build - probably with DT xm481 rims but possibly halo vapour 35 rims if I’m feeling cheap 😃
Shimano XT. Not convertible but you’ll get both front AND rear hubs for less than £100 and they’ll go on forever.
I'd rather have hubs filled with treacle than XT hubs. Or any Shimano hub for that matter. They're cheap because they're shit. I don't normally beat down on products but Shimano hubs (and any other cup and cone hubs) deserve space on the shelf next to dual control and biopace. I used them for years and despite regular maintenance (done by qualified mechanics before anyone points the finger) they just died far too soon and I seemed to eat freehubs like they were going out of fashion.
Since moved to Hope and now on my second set and yet to so much as touch my newer Pro4's after 2 years hard use and my older Pro2's went 4 years without any kind of maintenance at all yet still span as smoothly as they did when new.
Aren't e1900 hubs just rebranded budget formula ones?
I think e1900 hubs are DT 370’s. Not aware they’re rebranded formula ones.
On Shimano hubs I’ve put an XT one on my hardtail as that’s just a cheap build and I wanted something as cheap as possible for the back wheel (without dropping to the Deore which has even worse sealing) and put a Superstar cartridge bearing hub on the front. Total cost for the pair of hubs was £70.
But on my fs I don’t want a cheap set of hubs - I’m getting decent rims so want decent hubs too and won’t skimp on the spokes etc either. Although I am going to build them myself as my other set of wheels I built on the hardtail seem to be going ok. But I will buy a spoke tension meter for this new build.
I couldn't say who actually fabricated them, but they are very much a DT hub in their design.
Either the hope of 350 can be converted to boost. I've both on different bikes. First ride on the 350s I thought the hub was broken as there was so little noise. If your not fussed about second hand I would expect you could get a pair Hopes for under £150. Not seen any boost 350s for sale yet so you may have to go new there.
You'll have no problems with hopes, lots of adaptability (although changing a 100mm front to boost needs a re-dish and loses the advantages of boost, if you care), easy bearing changes, good spares availability etc. but they are heavy for the price and noisy.
DT swiss with the ratchet mechanism are the nicest mtb hubs I've ever had (although bearing changes are trickier than a hope). Although my cup and cone shimano road wheels roll beautifully on my summer bike.
I've had no problem with rebranded novatecs from superstar (did the HT550, LL200, braunton 150, transcambrian etc and a lot of training on a set last year that I'd bought second hand - they needed bearing change front and rear, but so did the hopes on my other bike that saw a lot less use).
Superstar tesla is the only rear hub I've ever managed to kill completely dead.
Can't really see the difference between any of the front hubs in terms of sealing - and absolutely no difference in performance as long as the bearings are quality.
I'd probably go novatec (£70 a pair on ebay) and face up to having to change the bearings every few years - but I'm tight and my riding is spread over quite a few bikes. If I was building something a bit nicer I'd probably go hope as I've got all the presses etc so they'd easier to maintain at home. I'd love dt 240s really though.
DT 1900 series wheels are on 370's. 1700 series wheels are on 350's,1500 series wheels are on 240's
You want the 1700's at least as the hubs have the star ratchet and not the pawl system.
I've done 4000km on my 350's including a number of 24hr & 12hr races in all sorts of conditions and they're as good as the day I got them.
+1 for dt 350's
I got a e1700 set for a bargain and the hub and rim have been faultless
The ratchet system is great , IMO better than the pawl and spring used by hope and others as I would go through a freehub every few months (even with regular maintainence)
but if you did want to go hope their customer service and warranty is great
I wouldn't go Shimano not because of cup and cone bearings but freehub strength know lots of people had to switch them out as they broke constantly but the new xtr hubs have a ratchet system so they might be better
(although changing a 100mm front to boost needs a re-dish and loses the advantages of boost, if you care)
You mean gives some of the advantage of boost. It's when you don't need to redish and hence don't even up the spoke triangulation that you gain zero advantage
The dt 350’s are sounding a good option with the ratchet - but the Hope’s also sounding good.
Ian -
i take your point on front hubs - essentially just a shell with bearings pressed in so not much to go wrong. The Superstar electro front hub I used on my recent cheapie wheel build seemed pretty nice.
Rear hubs seem to be the major variable between brands.
owning Hopes (Pro 2 Evo) and DT Swiss (350 straight pull) I'd say that you would be fine with either - but if pushed then I'd probably go for 350s with the 36T ratchet, it makes such a nice buzz..
the Hope’s also sounding good
No they don't 😉
It seems tight to call between the pro 4 and the 350 then. Weights of both front and back hubs seem to be within 10grams of each other from some weights quoted- although I’m not convinced the DT Swiss weights I’ve found are accurate. Their own site doesn’t seem to list them and I think chain reaction might have it wrong. Seems quality on both are good.
I prefer the look of the Hope hubs - but perhaps the ratchet drive on the DT rear hub might be better? I think upgrading to hat might put the dt’s outside of budget though.
IME DT will need a lot less servicing over their life- it does add up over time.
If you want weights, look in images, find a picture of the part you want on some scales.
That’s a good idea - thanks!
Does anyone know if the DT Swiss 350 comes with the ratchet system as standard (rather than pawls) - it seems a bit unclear on their website. Might have an 18 tooth ratchet?
How would this compare to the Hope 4 pawl (44t engagement) system for speed of pick up / reliability?
From what I’ve read my current hub has a very slow pickup with a low number of pawls. I haven’t actually ridden a bike with a really good hub before to see if I could tell the difference or not though.
i've got DTs and have had the star ratchets done once.. they will slip if you ride in too much deep wet stuff /.slop. but thats A LOT Of slop. i upgraded the bearings to enduro ones when i had them rebuilt and they roll fast downhill... cruising along downhill without pedaling i outpace people..
NSbikes oil slick - was going to go for these for a wheel build until I found a set of spank 295 trail wheels are a stupid price.
"Does anyone know if the DT Swiss 350 comes with the ratchet system as standard (rather than pawls) – it seems a bit unclear on their website. Might have an 18 tooth ratchet?"
350 is definitely ratchet and yep 18t as standard. TBH pickup is a personal matter, I've fitted the 36T ratchets just because I can't resist an upgrade but in normal use I don't think it makes any practical difference at all to me. It feels nice, is all. YMMV of course.
I've got 350s and Pro4s, and tbh I don't really give either of them a second thought! Bearings seem well sealed on both, no freehub issues. The only time I really think about what I'm riding is when I find myself thinking 'there's something missing', and realise it's just that I'm on the 350, so there's pretty much no freehub noise.
In fact, I've just swapped the wheels between my hardtail hack and Enduro bike, purely so I can be heard on the towpaths without having to fit a bell!
I run the basic 18t ratchet, because pickup speed has never really been something that's bothered me too much. I may go 36 when I've got a wadge of cash burning a hole, but only out of curiosity. I'll avoid the 52 due to tales off then being weaker.
It may just come down then to which I like the look of more / which I can get the best deal on then. So little to chose between them. Unless the Superstar V6 gets good reviews when they are released in which case they might come into the mix.
Personally I'm a huge Hope fan because of the availability of spares. I bought some used wheels many years ago with Pro2 (not Evo) hubs in, and about a year ago did a frame upgrade. Hope still sold the parts to swap from 135 QR to 142x12. Whereas for another build I bought some Novatec hubs second hand and discovered that they were 18 months old now, so there are no spares available.
Superstar actually making their own hubs in the UK is great, but I'd want a firm commitment to how long they'll continue making spares for it before buying one.
That’s a good point Ross - it seems a lot of nova tech users find heir hubs aren’t supported anymore - even when they aren’t that old.
I’m slightly leaning towards Hope at the moment and I’ll just have to get over my Hope loud freewheel phobia.
I think some of the criticism of shimano hubs up there is a little harsh. If you're the kind of person who pays a shop to do maintenance then you'll hate them, for everyone else its half an hour every six months or so.
Likewise novatec, for £60 a pair I don't really care if they don't make boost adapters for my hubs in 5 years time, some brands will charge you £60 for a set if adapters or a freehub! If you can build your own wheels its a moot pont, just buy new novatecs when you change bikes.
Most of my nice wheels are hope though. Bling, British, light-ish, peerless warranty if they ever fail but generally go on forever, what's not to like.
From a quick read it seems hat Hope problem is more a pro2 than a pro4 thing - so I don’t think I need to worry.
On the Shimano front I don’t really want to be re-greasing my hubs every 6 months and readjusting cones etc. I’ve got that new XT on my hardtail and haven’t looked at the cone arrangement yet but aware I need to. Out the box it wasn’t as smooth as I’d like (felt a bit notchy compared to the Superstar electro), soni want to strip it down and fill it with loads of grease when I get a chance. I don’t yet have cone spanners though - another tool I need to add to my bike tool collection!
Both are fine. Hope freehub needs a bit more love than DT (hope pawl springs snap). DT needs a DT tool to remove the ring drive to remove the drive side hub bearing.
They make different noises if you care. DT you can get 18, 36 or 54t ratchet rings. TF Tuned advise against using the finer teeth in MTB hubs.
Shimano hubs can last for years, if they are regularly stripped, cleaned and greased (as required, multiple times a year in wet conditions) as soon as you get water in and a pit/corrosion on the hub race they are scrap. You can normally bring catridge bearings hubs back to as new unless they have been ridden with a collapsed bearing.
If it’s just an occasional change of bearings / springs then I should be ok with that. I’m assuming with the level of use I put the bike through it’ll be very occasional. The DT’s haven’t needed anything done yet after more than a year.
Kings! You'll never need to change the bearings and the engagement is the fastest out there - no pawls to worry about. They're a bit more expensive than the other options...but I'll do you a deal when I come to sell mine as soon as the taxman gets back to me! 😉
Thanks Alex lol!
Thought you were having them built into new 27.5” wheels?
Did take a quick peek at Kings online and hastily retreated.
I've had them priced up to get built onto some DT Swiss rims...though I reckon I could sell them and put the proceeds towards some DT Swiss rims on Pro 4s for more or less the same expenditure. Absolutely nothing wrong with the kings but I just fancy a change. And some mega clicky hubs instead of buzzy!
Maybe. 🤔
Are your Kings convertible to boost? How much might you want for them / what colour are they?
You could just re-rim them yourself to save money - it wasn’t that difficult to put together a wheelset that seem to be working....
I'll ping you a PM
I've used hope, Shimano, a couple of different superstar models and DTs over the years and my choice would be hope.
Shimano- fine when I was a student and had lots of time to keep on top of servicing. Even then I was coaxing freehubs along after a couple of winters. If you need a really budget option they are hard to beat though.
Hopes win out over DT for me because they are more straightforward to service. I haven't found my 240 to live up to the bearing life claims for the central, needs an expensive special tool to change, bearing. It means you eitherneed to stump up for an extra tool, which inflates the cost of the hub, or find time to go to a friendly bike shop.
I'm not generally fussy about engagement either but apparently somewhere between the DT Swiss 18 and hope 24 is where is start to notice it, so really I'd be looking for the 36t ratchet, which is more money.
It's not that the DT Swiss aren't really nice, it's just the foibles that make them less easy to live with that bumped me back to hope.
Superstar/novatech are fine. I'd spend the extra on hope if I had it as they seem to need a little less looking after and as others have mentioned, I like the thought that I'll almost certainly be able to get spare parts for years.
I don't know what you are all doing to your Shimano hubs the rear on my fatbike is now 7 years old and had been in the sea, rivers, snow, salty roads, peat bog. I've started cracking it open once a year just for a bit of re-grease.
The XTRs on my tourer/gravel/cx are even older and get less attention than that.
Before I continue, I'd just like to qualify that as a bike shop owner and mechanic, I've worked on (and owned just about everything mentioned) all the hubs mentioned, they all have their positives and negatives, what appeals to you will be determined by your own individual criteria. Anyway... Here's some pro's and con's to the Hopes and DT 350's...
Hope... Pro's...
-Incredibly versatile (adapters to adapt most hubs to fit most standards)
-Fairly well priced
-Easy to self service with relatively few tools (it helps if you have proper bearing presses, but with care you can get away without)
-Reasonably fast pickup with 44T engagement (Pro4's)
-Spares are readily available from most bike shops
-Cast iron backup from arguably the most grass roots of UK companies in the industry
-A range of colours (if that's your thing)
Con's...
-Alloy freehubs made of cheese!
-Pawl springs made out of similarly soft cheese as the freehubs!
-Bearing life typically not as good as some other cartridge bearing hubs
-Not quite the step up in performance/reliability that their price would suggest when compared to other, cheaper hubs.
-Some anodised colours fade rather faster than I'd deem acceptable
DT350... Pro's...
-The most reliable freehub mecahnism... PERIOD (as the americans would say!)
-Priced on a par with Hope Pro 4's, so again, fairly well priced.
-All the performance of the DT240's for a little over half the price!
-Can be upgraded with 36T or 54T ratchet rings if faster engagement is required.
-Fairly versatile/adaptable compared to many.
-Better bearing life than other cartridge bearing hubs in my experience.
Con's
-Despite being distributed by Madison (who also distribute Shimano), spares are a lot harder to come by and can often go out of stock, when compared to Hope in particular.
-When the centre hub bearing finally dies (it will last a very long time mind!) you need expensive proprietary tools to remove the ratchet drive ring to access it.
-Only available in Black
-Standard 18T ratchet rings give rather lazy engagement.
-The upgraded 54T and 36T ratchet rings don't last as long as the 18T. In fact, for off road use, I wouldn't recommend the 54T at all. The 36T give a good trade off of performance and reliability, but use the 18T if you want ultra reliability.
No point in mentioning the others really... The new Superstars don't exist... The old ones are typically incredibly unreliable and difficult to get spares for. Shimano are chalk and cheese, cos their QR hubs are stupidly reliable as long as you keep up with the servicing, where their through axle hubs have ridiculously tiny bearings and fragile freehubs that tend to shatter into a million pieces in no time! Chris King's are superb (but not without fault), but crazy money and need proprietary tools to service them, but looked after they'll outlast the life of the bike that they're attached to, and the next one, and the one after that! And then there's DT 240's... All the benefits of the 350's and 20% lighter, for a mere 100% price increase! I guess you can't have everything eh...
Anyway... If you're buying with your head, it would always be DT 350's... If you're buying with your heart, it's Chris King's (if you can even remotely afford them!) or Hope Pro4's if you can't. Any of the cheaper options (unless you're running QR front and rear, in which case there's still a big argument for Shimano M756 XT's) are false economy...
Hope that helps!
Hope- you know they give good support when it goes wrong because everyone on STW has a story about how their Hope thing broke and got fixed
DT- you have no idea if they give good support because you've never heard of it going wrong
Weirdly, this counts as a win for Hope.
Thanks for all the comments - coming down to DT vs Hope almost definitely.
I have the Shimano 756xt on my hardtail and not that impressed with the smoothness - I don’t want them on my nice bike - despite how cheap I can get them for! Even assuming I could get them in boost 148x12 / 15x100.
As I love a bargain I’ll just see which is the best priced hub at the time - the DT with the 36t ratchet or the Pro4.
@Mboy - without wishing to hijack the thread, if you had a set of approx 6 year old Kings in very good condition but built up as 26", would you keep the hubs but get them built up as 650b, or sell the hubs and get new Pro4s built up in the same rims?
Good question Alex. Surely the answer is Kings built up as 650b. That wouldn’t even cost that much surely - £30 ish on spokes - £60 per rim plus your wheel builders cost. £250?