[Closed] How to not start a cyclewear clothing brand...

This guy is called Owen too

It doesn’t even work as “codewear” if it’s a brand no one has heard of and doesn’t scream “I’m a “cyclist”.

This is the challenge you face - building a brand from scratch. Brand awareness takes time to build - look at some brands that people would see and instantly recognise, and then figure out what's needed to get that level of recognition. A brand is much more than a logo (and I think you get this) - what are you going to do to build yours?

Sponsorship? Giveaways? Competitions? Videos?

Can you get people wearing your stuff at events? How about a physical presence at a race/event series? I'm now aware of the Big Bobble Hat people through them being at some of the MTB Marathons. At the World Cyclocross Championships this year there were loads of people in what looked like their hats - something about their branding obviously stuck with me as I saw the crowd and thought "Big Bobble Hats".

"FRINJE (pronounced “fringe”, but we like to be different)"

If you have to point out that you are different then you aren't. This just makes you sound like a try hard, "I'm mad me" kind of person. Very off putting.

The landing page is dull and uninformative - show me something exciting! Maybe some nice singletrack rather than a muddy farm track?

What is your logo? To me it either looks like the edge of a pine tree or a saw blade. Nothing at all to do with bikes. I also find the logo rather unbalanced with too much empty space on the right.

The pictures on the t-shirts are uninspiring. Photo prints on t-shirts rarely work well.........

Get some coloured t-shirts. Grey, seriously?

And if you want to raise brand awareness why don't any of your things have frinje written on them? And if it is cycling based why isn't there anything readily identifiable to do with cycling on them?

The logo needs some work - i'm assuming it's meant to represent a trail up/down a mountain or is it a camera flash logo? But I'm only led to that by being on here and from what you have said. Otherwise it resembles a christmas tree. It needs to be more obviously a trail - the bottom left should be thicker tailing off up to the top, and moved to more of an angle. And there can be less zig zags.

The logo and name don't appear to have any correlation to one another? The name reminds me of a bad haircut. Personally I'd dump the name. and come up with something that echoes photography/moment/trail/mtb/cycling etc. That's not easy, but make it easy to say or memorable.

If you are so keen on showing the photography don't hide swathes of it behind a logo - putting logo's on top of images is generally a no no. I would have the image in a panoramic format across the entire breadth of the t-shirt with the logo intersecting in a knocked out circle at the top left corner of it, but it would only be about 50mm radius at most. If you like the logo large I could see more abstract photography (tire tracks in mud) working if you filled the logo with the image, as oppose to what you have done here where they are both fighting for attention with neither winning.

The photography viewpoint idea would be aided by either seeing some bars in the foreground or a rider in the distance. Otherwise i'm not sure people will get it?

p.s. anyone want one of these?

But they also explained that they only bought from distributors, and not directly from the manufacturer.

Well that’s a lie. How do they get bikes from Giant, Orange, etc? And how do they get components from the likes of Hope? Clothing-wise Sweet Protection we’re coming from Sweet* until recently and i’m sure there will be others. A shop will buy whatever makes them money

*not actually phoning Norway direct but certainly not from a distributor

I clicked on to the site thinking I was going to see a technical riding shirt. I was a bit disappointed to just see hoodies and tees. I think you make have limited your potential sales by not offering female tops even though I ride mainly in men's tops

If you haven't looked already then Sombrio have had some good tech shirts over the years but none have ever taken off which has lead to retailers heavily discounting stock

I like almost everything - the colours (I *love* grey/heather jersey fabric), the logo, and the fact that nothing about it screams cyclist. The ethical side is also a massive plus for me, and unlike a lot of posters I'm not the slightest bit interested in standard 'tech' MTB shirts (i.e. slightly baggy polyester t-shirts).

But - and it's a big but - I'm too tight to spend £24 on a t-shirt. Quite honestly I'd be waiting and hoping you had a 40-50% off sale at some point.

“FRINJE (pronounced “fringe”, but we like to be different)”

Reminds me of the nonsense writing style you get on the side of an innocent smoothy bottle, and such like.  Annoying, and I'd guess it must be near the end of the cycle where that is seen as fun and original, if we are not already well past it.

if you want to make the imagery on the clothes your selling point, don’t make it small and obstructed by your logo

And

I don’t like the graphics. A harsh zigzag of blank going across a ‘view’

Those sum up the products for me I'm afraid. The black logo hoodies are ok.

I do like the environment creds but it can sound very clichéd. I'd put a one liner on your home page "all our products are ethically produced " and back it up in depth on a separate page for those that care .

Feels like trying too hard but then I don't go in for marketing guff.

change your size chart to inches, and make some proper man sizes.

46'' in not and never has been xl.

Looking forward to seeing the riding shirt. In my opinion, you need a good core product before merchandise.

I have no problem with the logo or name… people will always moan about such things, and give you the armchair brand expert nonsense. Lots of good advice from other people about the site though… take it on board.

change your size chart to inches, and make some proper man sizes.

46” in not and never has been xl.

Ha To be fair, chest size of 45-48 inches is a pretty standard XL, even for 'generously' cut stuff like TNF.

Mountain Hardwear also do a stretch polyester check shirt, but they’ve very hard to get hold of here.

It's a really good product, and I've struggled to find more (I think I got mine on Sports Pursuits), or a similar product.  Personally I wouldn't ride in it, but I do wear it a lot.

...a water-resistant riding shirt after realising that I almost always ride in some kind of check-shirt, unless it was raining

Me too. That bit got my interest. I don't like to have to get dressed in special clothes to go for a ride, just grab the bike and go in my every day gear.

So I immediately lost interest when all you are offering is cotton.

I will not wear anything with cotton in it on a bike. Cotton kills out on the hills.

I would love a normal flannel looking shirt that was windproof and waterproof/resistant. Ditto for jeans, (plus a bit of stretch for cycling).

As for the T-shirts, like most cyclists I already have too many T-shirts from events. I'd sooner wear an event T-shirt than a branded one.

Ordinary hoodies are a waste of time IMO - they are for kids who lurk around street corners. You don't want to be wearing them out on the hills if it rains or it's hypothermia time. Nothing against the style of a hoodie, I would buy a relaxed fit hoodie that was fully synthetic, windproof and water proof/resistant as a pull on for after a ride.

Your site is also too dark and virtually unreadable.

Go back to your original idea, and go direct to the consumer.

You are definitely doing it wrong.

Did you think about telling everyone your not our kind of customer so **** off.

You will sell more tshirts than bikes.

Instant clothing brand.

Me too. That bit got my interest. I don’t like to have to get dressed in special clothes to go for a ride, just grab the bike and go in my every day gear.

I don't really get this.  Doesn't your everyday gear get ruined?  Don't you get hot/sweaty or wet/muddy after a ride, so you need to shower and get changed into fresh gear anyway?  Or is it just a style choice - you want to look nonchalant, rather than getting dressed up in a MTB uniform (which should perform much better than everyday clothes)?  Not a criticism BTW, just wondering.

I like the design, definitely something appeals to my eye and the website is good too. But the turn off for me is the prices - £24 for a t-shirt is expensive but I would pay that much for a quality product. £50 for a hoodie is ripping the piss I’m afraid.

RM.

Phil it’s funny because you obviously don’t like the company you allude to (which is cool, horses for courses and all that), yet they have quickly established a brand and an identity, albeit one that not everyone would like.

OP, I don’t like it. Sorry. The shirt sounds cool but doesn’t exist. The t shirt and hoodies don’t work for me. I also hate the misspelt name which has no relevance to anything, and no mention of it on any of your clothing just that bit logo.

In al honesty I looked at your website and then immediately remembered Howies are still around and then quickly went to their website for a better range of better t shirts and clothing.

I completely applaud you for giving it a go. If I were you I’d be at Malverns festival this weekend with a load of t shirts, selling them for way below RRP or giving them out as prizes so that you can reach a bigger audience more quickly and get the brand out there a bit.

yet they have quickly established a brand and an identity

So I'm correct. But without the assumptions preceeding.

If you drop the E off the name, you won't need to clarify how to pronounce it 🙂

Lower case F and the word makes a nice shape and looks a bit catchier/shorter.

Also, might not be too hard to change as its only on the inside of the clothing, so you could sell the existing stock (although I suspect the T shirts are being printed to order somewhere else, you probably don't handle them between the customer ordering and receiving them?)

frinj

I'll gift you the name in return for a Tree Tee in medium 😉 (although I don't actually know if thats the correct size, I saw the sizing table in cm's, so measured my chest in cm's (95) and then noticed the sizing is in T shirt 'width'.  I don't think I've ever seen that before...my only real way of checking that is to find a well fitting T shirt, smooth it out on the floor and measure it to make a comparison.

Edit: Awaits lawsuit from frinjcoffee of California...

£50 for a hoodie is ripping the piss I’m afraid.

Isn't £50 about the going rate for a non technical cotton hoody from (albeit established) outdoor brands?  Assuming similar quality (yes, that's a big assumption), it doesn't seem unreasonable.

I took a look at the site yesterday but was hungover so didn’t comment. I didn’t think my grip on reality was strong enough to publish my thoughts.

a few things pop out.

shirts are only in grey. I don’t like grey.

the shirts only have found necks. I don’t like round necks.

i think the art needs to be a bit bigger as it currently looks too “vague” and a bit dreary.

dont like the zigzag thing.

The biggest “issue” for me about the site, is the actual pictures of the garments.

theyre all creased and low res. It smacks of someone selling their old stuff on eBay and getting bored by the 3rd listing.

taste asside. This the first and only opportunity to wow potential buyers and for me, it’s not something I can look past.

pleaese take the as feedback, not bitching.

I don’t like to have to get dressed in special clothes to go for a ride

Fair enough...

I will not wear anything with cotton in it on a bike.

Wait, is that not a regular material, I though you just said...

I would love a normal flannel looking shirt that was windproof and waterproof/resistant. Ditto for jeans, (plus a bit of stretch for cycling).

Err... is that not "special" clothing then?

OP, site looks pretty good, certainly better than I could do, if it's you, then stick to your guns (Everyone's a critic, right?) like Tracey I was disappointed that your check shirt wasn't on it. I's be keen to try one, they sound pretty good.

So I’m correct. But without the assumptions preceeding.

I think you probably are, they appear to struggle a little to supply bikes but I suspect they have sold a lot of T's and socks.

I have one of their bikes and four t-shirts so I have only helped to prove you correct.

To develop a brand you need a selling point, eg, your technical stuff. Once people buy that, like it, ride in it, they will buy T-shirts with the brand ("look at me, I ride in Frinj gear"). At the moment there isn't enough in the brand to make it worth anything.

Think of the Karrimor brand. That developed over many years of selling top notch technical gear, and was very well respected. It was sold to somebody who just wants a profit - they are selling ordinary stuff on the basis of the brand value that was acquired by the technical stuff. It won't last, as the brand will devalue, but they know that, once they've taken the value out of the brand will disappear. You're at the opposite end, you need to build the value into the brand.

I know nothing about marketing.

Isn’t £50 about the going rate for a non technical cotton hoody from (albeit established) outdoor brands?

Looking at The North Face website then perhaps I'm being a bit harsh - but a quick look on the Tog-24 and Dare-2B would suggest not... I guess it comes down to paying for a brand? Anecdotal I know, both myself and my other half had some hoodies printed on in small batches recently for clubs we're involved in - neither were over £25 and they are good quality hoodies.

RM.

If I was the OP i'd be worried about this guy's lawyer....

I'm surprised he's not been quicker off the mark.

Like the website, like the tees, it's nice to try to embed brand identity but feel like the lightning logo could be a bit less bold.

Would be interested in technical short-sleeved shirts, that are just like regular T-shirts but I couldn't ever bring myself to spend £24 plus p&p on a regular cotton t-shirt I'm afraid, even if they are made from organic bat tears or something.

I don’t really get this.  Doesn’t your everyday gear get ruined?  Don’t you get hot/sweaty or wet/muddy after a ride, so you need to shower and get changed into fresh gear anyway?  Or is it just a style choice – you want to look nonchalant, rather than getting dressed up in a MTB uniform (which should perform much better than everyday clothes)?  Not a criticism BTW, just wondering.

I get it, and I think there is a big hole in the market for more casual cycling apparel.

It seems in this country you either get dressed up like a storm trooper set to tackle civil war in a dystopian future, or a pro-level athlete in full-on gymnast gear. There is very little in the way of tasteful and subtle cycle clothing.

Yes, it might be the right gear for an all-dayer out in the hills, or your local road race. But sometimes you just want to go for a blast around the doors, have a casual couple of hours in blazing sunshine, pop out to the shops, take the kids for a ride, or do all of the above. In the winter I'll be head to toe in carefully considered gear, with everything serving an important purpose. In the summer I begin to think WTF, what am I putting this on for, and some days just end up in shorts and a cotton t-shirt - because there's no need for anything else, and it makes me feel less of as nob. I'd prefer not to wear any kind of uniform when I ride. I wear dedicated clothing when required, and I put up with the available styles because I have no other choice.

Actual dedicated, casual cycle clothing is really hard to find. Doesn't need to be massively technical. Quick drying. Maybe some kind of water resistance. A nice shirt I would take touring, where the only clothes I'd be packing are those I can wear on and off the bike.

In regards to the website:

Product images look like they're shot on mobile phone... Low resolution, out of focus. Whole point of the site is to showcase the products, and a good clear image helps me assess the product. I wouldn't buy based on those images alone.

I quite like the grey though 🙂

Not just the Flash's lawyer...

Rapanui are doing everything you're doing just loads better.

Good on you for giving it a go but really the only thing you are selling that no one else is, is your logo and that's not enough.

Actual dedicated, casual cycle clothing is really hard to find. Doesn’t need to be massively technical. Quick drying. Maybe some kind of water resistance. A nice shirt I would take touring, where the only clothes I’d be packing are those I can wear on and off the bike.

If anyone was wanting a tech check shirt, and was dissapointed to find a bunch of regular tees, then...  http://www.wiggle.co.uk/sombrio-vagabond-riding-shirt-2017/ and  http://www.wiggle.co.uk/sombrio-vagabond-riding-shirt-2016/

I’d love a normal looking check (or plain) shirt for cycling and would bite your hand off if the price was good.

I've got the Sombrio one.

And also the older Scott Roarban ones.

The Sombrio isn't particularly tech. Not very breathable or windproof, but it is comfy and I like it for uplifts.
At least is doesn't have the 'cotton kills' aspect.

The older Scott Roarban ones are superb. Not a very nice feeling fabric (feels very synthetic and snaggs easily), but they are lightweight, windproof and a bit breathable. The short sleeve ones get used instead of a gillet on many rides.

And (obviously) they all show that I've been to Whistler bro.

On a positive note, a quick Google found a wholesaler/printer who can do the same t-shirts as the OP, with a full colour digital print of your choosing, for under £20 - so if you want an ethical T with a print you actually like it should be fairly cheap/painless! They also do polyester wicking t-shirts for sports - not really clued up on the eco-credentials of polyester, but this particular brand has the same WRAP certification OP mentions on his site.