[Closed] Guy airlifted from cyb today

Checkput the Coed y Brenin Facebook group there's done details on there about the accident.... Sounds nasty

Checkput the Coed y Brenin Facebook group there's done details on there about the accident.... Sounds nasty

Compund fracture of the clavical, suspected broken ribs, a minor contusion to the head, broken helmet and a hurt pride!

healing vibes to the guy steve

Yer thought it was bad.watched it from just up the way.
Big jump halfway down falseteeth me thinks.
More healing vibes sent.....

i'm sure everybody really wants to know how the bike faired?

And thats why its getting changed.........(its hardly a jump-more a blind lip into a huge bomb hole!!!)

Yer jumps out on you that one but it,s great fun to do.
I know what you mean though.It is a bit dare i say it dangerous 😉
Have you had a bad experience there Rorschach .....???

changed, please no my favourite bit, it's got plenty of warning signs

My mate Jay did the same thing two weekends ago, but we made him walk to the road, then we rang for an ambulance.

They didnt offer any airlift - whats the magic password for that then ?

[i]whats the magic password for that then[/i]

I can't move my legs.

mikewsmith - Member
changed, please no my favourite bit, it's got plenty of warning signs

Assuming this is 'the cavity', I don't think the warning signs are much good when you are going fast (or they certainly weren't last year when my mate took an over the bars dive into it!). I certainly didn't see any signs - I was busy looking at the trail.

That drop has claimed a fair few people. Last summer we were there and one of our group landed on his head at the other side of the big drop and couldn't remember who his kids were, whether he'd driven there or not or what day it was, pretty scary tbh.

Rode that section of trail on Sun morning and narrowly escaped a big off myself.

It's a fast section of trail and in my opinion the "skull and crossbones" sign is situated far too close to the feature to be of use in slowing people down or getting them to stop.

By the time you see the sign its too late, as you are almost certainly committed to the drop. If you brake hard at that point you will probably be even worse off if you end up going off it at slow speed.

I personally cant see the point of that "feature" on that section of trail, as it doesnt seem in keeping with the rest of the section.

The other thing that we found badly thought out was the sign at the top that says "Black is this for you". Seems reasonable to warn people that the trail is graded black, but if you decide that it is not for you, then it does not give you any guidance on how to avoid that section and find another way back to the centre. A trail map at that point would be useful.

That drop-off needs altering I agree, seen people off there every time i've been to C-Y-B.

Red bull...it gives you wings for just such a feature. 😉

Anyone got a picture of the offending trail feature?

I cant remember any drop anywhere [maybe I crashed and wiped my short-term]. Where is false-teeth on the trails? (which trail?)

Seems like an appropriate name though.

Hope the injured party recovers well!!!

At the risk of being inflammatory...
...that 'drop off' is neither a compulsory air nor inherently dangerous. It is on a Black section and blind, which is obvious when approaching. Therefore the ride should beware.

It doesn't need sanitising.

Cheers.

cant remember anything majorly worrying when i did the full beast route last year? there were some sections that were pretty big jumps if thats your thing, but im sure i remember simply rolling over it at speed without the need to turn it in a huge attempted jump?? anyways i didnt come off and cant remember anything major....if hes trying to clear a huge jump then i guess that could be why?

its a great route i think, i cant remember coming away thinking much needed changing, but clearly enough folk on here do

Don't see the problem with that drop myself. Rode it with caution the first time...as you should when riding a trail for the first time.

Hit it at the correct speed and it's fine. It's clearly a blind drop so if you crash surely you were going too fast for your skill level?

Nickegg +1

Ride with your eyes open and within your ability. Dont sanitise it, ride slower or choose a slightly eaiser route. They are graded.

Its not hard to ride at a speed that suits your ability.

4 of us last week all negotiated False Teeth at speed - it's unfortunate the guy has hurt himself and I hope he recovers well. Sorry but I guess he will learn from this, maybe he was attacking it in the wrong way........I have seen this all too common at trail centres - people punching above there weight....I am guilty myself but have learnt from my mistakes!

Given that it's on a black graded section, why have warning signs at all? Doesn't that in itself indicate that it is "out of place" or perhaps is poorly designed.

I personally have a dislike for such signs and find that they are more of a distraction than a help.

Having said that I think FalseTeeth is an excellent piece of trail and would hate to see it "dummed" down.

Best wishes to the injured rider.

From the CyB Facebook page linked to above: [i]"That's what you get for trying to keep up with your son's down a black grade trail, when you've not been on a bike for five yrs!"[/i]

Sound like a case of ego/enthusiasm > skill, as others have alluded to above. Trail Centres shouldn't have to sanitise their Black routes to accommodate riders who would be better advised sticking to the Red.

Given that it's on a black graded section, why have warning signs at all? Doesn't that in itself indicate that it is "out of place" or perhaps is poorly designed.
I personally have a dislike for such signs and find that they are more of a distraction than a help.

I agree. I came off at Laggan a while ago on the last bit of Black cos I so distracted by the sign at the side of the trail that told me I was about to ride The Pointy Rocks of Certain Death (accompanied by suitably gory skull & crossbones, icons of air ambulances and mementos to those who'd already died on that spot) that I kind of forgot to look where the bike was going... 😳

It is on a Black section and blind, which is obvious when approaching.

Aren't those two contradictory statements?

I think the blind aspect is why it's the source of so many accidents. Yes it's pretty easy to ride if you roll it slowly and/or know it's coming, but it's not obvious when approaching that you need to slow down unless you know what you are doing. The trail up until that point is pretty fast.

First time I did False Teeth, a couple of years ago, I saw the warning sign on that 'drop' at the last second, and that distraction took my eye of the trail and made it a bit more 'exciting' than it would otherwise have been. It needs moving further up the trail imo. Or removing.

Bloody excellent bit of trail though.

Trail centres are usually built in such a way that you don't have to make too many judgement calls and can blithley 'huch carcass' all day.....I believe some people refer to it as 'flow' 😉 . More experienced riders are a little more canny about throwing themselves off a blind lip but newbies are more inclined to be lulled into thinking everything is 'designed to be safe'.I can usually spot the accident hotspots at trails pretty easily 8) .
I presume someone has looked at the accident logs/trail reports and there's been a number of incidents at this location.It would be a breach of their duty of care to leave a known 'hazard' and affect their liability.The same happened to the infamous drop and wooden section at llandegla.

Trail Centres shouldn't have to sanitise their Black routes to accommodate riders who would be better advised sticking to the Red.

I learnt my lesson on riding like you know whats coiming up a few weeks back.

I think CYB is exactly the sort of place thats sucks you into riding like its an A road when of copurse its not. I was certainly nervous following my kids on the reds at CYB for that reason

Ironically the harder 7 stains trails felt much safer as it was onboius even to an 11 year old you couldn't make assumptions that the next bit of trail would be OK to blindly fling yourself down.

Any way I hope the guy make a full recobery and rides again

I've not ridden that bit of trail but in some ways no warning signes seems safest

Hope he gets well soon + learns from the experience.
Great bit of trail, no need to sanitize it.

Rorschach - Member
That is exactly who they are aimed at!Its a numbers game at the end of the day,more users means more money.They cannot afford to be exclusive to any user group.

I take your point about corporations having to be seen to 'do the right thing' in order to limit their liability. Shame it has to come to that though.

its about numbers. more riders ride lesser grade trails than blacks therefore..............

I meant red grade standard riders....who think they should be riding blacks....that's who trail centres are aimed at

As far as I'm aware the fella didn't crash in the bombhole, but one of the prior jumps.

The False Teeth section is pretty well marked at the start - clearly identified as black and with warnings about technical trail features.

W.r.t. the 'bombhole' [i]perhaps[/i] that sign on the lip could be moved back a few feet so you have time to register it and get your eyes back on the trail.

If you're going too fast to even notice it then you should be looking where you're going and will spot the ground disappearing before you. (I often slow down when this happens 🙄 )

Some people love False Teeth a lot, and it loves some people too much. Which way round pretty much depends on your actual skill level, your perceived skill level, how well you know the trail, and how awake you are on the day!

The new blue-graded trail fills a much needed gap at CyB I reckon. Something for thrilling for the inexperienced dads and kids, and a fun start to the trails for the unconvinced newbies (note: I'm not saying girlfriends 😉 )

Anyone got a photo of the aforementioned 'feature'?

Anyone got a photo of the aforementioned 'feature'?

If it was dirt it would be nothing much, even if you face planted. It is armoured with rock though so face planting it isn't a pleasant thought. This seems to be c-y-b these days. Moderate stuff made exciting by the prospect of being smashed to bits in the smallest of offs!

I think I know where you mean, and you're right, without the rock surface that feature in your local woods would be very straightforward.

taken from the bottom ... on a phone ... after skidding on my side most of the way down

[img][url= http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2753/5812835671_9736ba9866.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2753/5812835671_9736ba9866.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/63926310@N08/5812835671/ ]coed[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/63926310@N08/ ]mighty.marmite[/url], on Flickr[/img]

It certainly looks steeper from the top (assuming this is the right spot)

Some one needs to design a camra or software tool that makes trails look a bit steeper

I know form my own photos that I'm proably looking at a steep obstical

But in the photo you just thinking I'd role down that on a folding bike with dodgy brakes

I could add more saturation to the blood stains ...

That looks an absolute doddle.
But it isn,t.
That photo so so deceiving.
looks like a disabled ramp 😉
First time i rode this i nearly cacked myself.
Just jumps out at you so quick.

Ditto Rob, I was riding in the middle of a group of three, all I heard in front of me was a scream and a clatter, came out of the shade of the trees into bright sunlight as I realised what was ahead, tried to scrub off speed, twisted front wheel landing from the first lip, landed with a handful of rear brake and ended up making it half way down before dropping on to my hip for the rest of the journey (I blame the wet rocks ... obviously not visible in the picture)

Hence the artistic camera shake ...

In all honesty -Sunday warrior epic tales- could ruin CYB and other likes. Shame.

I'm sure the pic doesn't do it justice, but that feature looks like a rocky hill, perhaps the ideal terrain for a mountain bike. If it's a fast section of trail and there is a jump at the top then that is simply the landing ramp?

that photo doesn't look like false teeth looks more like the steep bit on pugsley. could be wrong though, just watched a youtube vid, I remember it being more open and exposed than that 😕

is a touch crazy i feel. i was razzing down their blind and from the top it looks massive. slid to an emergency stop, realised it wasnt big at all, went back up the trail about 10 ft, and still managed to drop it almost to flat.

god knows what would have happened if i'd hit it at my initial speed.

that said... KEEP IT IN!

too much trail sanitization is dull. couple of extra 'big drop' signs and it would be grand.

that's lame, trail centres are boring and lame

Please lets keep the trails as they are, or tougher.

They are Black / Red run trail centers in Wales, they are meant to be hard and require lots of skill and concentration.

Euro - Member
If it's a fast section of trail and there is a jump at the top then that is simply the landing ramp?

It's much steeper than that photo makes it look. Plus, if you jump from the top (or just ride over it at the speed you are likely to be going on that section of trail) you will land on the flat at the bottom (which is a probably 5m down).

Not that I'm saying it should be removed, but better warnings, or adjusting the preceding trail so you come into it slower will save a lot of accidents.

what ever happened to walking an unknown bit of trail before razzing down it? I always do this, or roll through it slowly the first time, doesn't everyone?? pretty daft if you don't, don't you think?? 😕

sort of agree with the above. not to have a sighting run as such... but surely to ride at a speed where you can stop (even if it is a chaotic haul on the brakes to sideways kind of stop)

if you are genuinely going so fast that you cant stop your self going of the edge of something then you are either lying or completely out of control.

and also it aint 5 meters tall. 5 meters is HUGE. its 2. at the most.

That person in the picture at the top is probably 1.5m tall on the bike... I reckon at least 4m from the lip to the flat at the bottom. Certainly if you are standing at the bottom the top is way above your head. I'm not suggesting it's really steep for that sort of height, but the drop all the way down to the bottom is a fair way. 🙂

[i]what ever happened to walking an unknown bit of trail before razzing down it?[/i]

I think on 'natural' terrain peopel do - at a trail centre everyone assumes there won't be any nasty surprises and that every tricky bit will be well flagged either by signage or a change in the trail layout approaching it.

It's probably not the obstacle itself that's the issue here, just when and how riders arrive at it.

that photo doesn't look like false teeth

There's definitely some confusion here, False Teeth was redesigned and rebuilt last year and is now smoother with jumps and drop-offs, making it feel more like a 4x track.

It used to be more rocky and "natural" feeling.

We did it a couple of months ago and we were surprised at the potential to get quite a lot of air, but it didn't feel unsafe really.

Maybe they could put those orange DH grading signs at the top of the section like they have at Brechfa?

Is this it at 2 mins in ? (Music's crap, may want to turn it down, not mine)

It's probably not the obstacle itself that's the issue here, just when and how riders arrive at it.

Exactly.

In terms of angle of steepness, how does that compare to the Black option drop at Llandegla on the Red trail?

Here's my mate trying it. I knew it would catch one of us out so got off my bike and took a video.
Not a problem at all in my opinion. Great addition to the trail.

[url=

(Hope that works)

It kind of works. Links to a facebook video, in full screen?

A swear word is used so maybe not open in the office with the volume on!

I am riding the beast tomorrow, not been for two years. Trails like this are why we drive over two hours to get to them, please leave it alone! Its graded black for a reason!

its never 4m either. 4m to flat is bike shatteringly high

The new False Teeth section is superb, accidents happen, don't change it.

Id say absolutely don't change it.

Given the state I went down it, was still able to comfortably walk away. Bloke at the top is over six foot, in wave terms its at least double over head to the berm when youre stood at the bottom.

There is space to scrub off enough speed (however ungracefully ... my mistake was landing with full death grip on the brakes) and theres a chicken'ish run to the left if you absolutely must put survival first.

To quote "its not tiddly winks chaps"

I would say given the amount of rocks on the runs that some form of padding is a must (currently sporting an impressive Olecranon Burstisis after not wearing the 661 subgear last weekend !)

Re walking the trail, unfortunately its far to narrow to safely do that, and the attainable speeds means theres little time / space to bale out of the way of oncoming riders, impossible if your hiking a bike up.

Thats the benefits to me at least of the trail centres, the pre walk is already done, and the gradings given so you can just get on with it and pack in as much riding as you can in the precious rare time we have.

We actually walked up the old trail that runs semi parallel so had some glimpses of what was to come

No leave it alone...It,s great once you know it,s there 😀

Sounds to me like this guy didn't give a CyB Black trail the respect it deserves.
To go flying over a blind crest on a black run for the first time is foolish.
He'll have plenty of time to think about it over the next 3 months.
I'm sure most of us have been there at some point. I certainly have.
Good luck to him for a speedy and uncomplicated recovery.
The trail should be left alone.